Style of Circular Saws

[Corley5]

All this talk of Wood Mizers is making me dizzy.  What style teeth do you guys run in your circular saws?  I run Simonds Blue Tips style 3 long, guage 8/9 with a 9/32 kerf.  My 50" saw takes 36 of them and the 52" takes 42.  I've been told that these saws are considered soft wood saws because of their fewer number of teeth.  You can't push them in hard wood.  They don't clean fast enough.  The soild tooth I was running has lots of teeth, not sure of count, and could be fed pretty fast.

[DanG]

The Mobile Dimension Saw only uses 6 teeth on a 30" wheel. They are 5/16" kerf.  I haven't put it into any hardwood, yet, but it does fine in pine and cedar. I have some oak and cherry logs waiting for the next test, so I'll know soon.

[Jeff]

F pattern 56 inch 52 tooth 9/32 kerf.  Corley I am going to do a little video demonstration of swedging as soon as it gets warmer. Here it is spring and its only 6 degrees this morning!

[Kevin]

Videos?
Shouldn`t you be patching the floor in your saw booth?  

[DanG]

We could use a warm-up here, too. It musta got down into the high 60's last night.  Had to have some hot grits to warm up my gizzard this mornin'.    

[Ron Wenrich]

I've been running F pattern 54" saws for the past several years.  But, I'm switching over to B pattern 46 tooth saws and a 6/8 gauge.  The stiffer saw holds up better, and the B pattern has 1 1/2 times the gullet capacity.

For teeth, I was running IKS chrome.  Their chrome isn't as thick as some of the others and can be swaged and sharpened with a hand file.  I still run them on the vertical edger.

I was hitting too much trash in the logs and converted over to regular teeth.  I was getting rid of the teeth before they were filed too short, so why pay the extra expense.  The longs only give you a few extra filings, so, again, why pay the expense.

Brands I've used are IKS and Simonds.  I prefer Simonds, but will use the IKS.  I also hand file.  I feel I have better control and never burn the teeth (my arms don't move that fast ).

I rarely swage anymore.  I will about half way through a set a teeth if I'm sawing tulip poplar.  It seems that it needs just a little more at that point.  For the denser hardwoods, I can usually breeze through a set of teeth and never swage, unless I hit something.

I also heard that you are supposed to sharpen, then swage.  I've always swaged then sharpened.  Most guys I know do it that way.  

[Jeff]

I also heard that you are supposed to sharpen, then swage.

I can't imagine doing it that way, after I swedge (swage?) theres is no cutting edge, just a wider tooth. Ya gotta sharpen. Could it be, they are sharpening then swedging then sharpening?

[Jeff]

I usually will swedge at least once in the life of a set of teeth, but I saw 80% aspen anymore which saws quite a bit different from dense hardwoods. I can get up to 150,000 feet on a set of teeth, if I don't hit no tramp.

[Corley5]

I've never swaged a saw myself.  I watched Grandpa do it once or twice but like a lot of things I didn't pay as much attention as I should have.  I don't recall that he sharpened before swaging.  According to Lunstrom in "Circular Sawmills and Their Efficient Operation" you are supposed to sharpen before swaging.  After hearing that two experienced sawyers don't sharpen first that's what I'm going to do.  I'm looking forwrd to your demo on swaging Jeff.  I've got four solid tooth saws that could use it if need patients

[Corley5]

It's been cold here too.  Yesterday morning we had zero and in town by the Sturgeon it was 12 below.  Pretty cold for this time of the year.  Last couple days have been really nice.  Beautiful blue skies but not very warm.  Didn't break freezing either day.  Getting a tan on my face though .  Where ever the sun can work on something dark it's melting snow.  We need a warm rain or wind to really cut it.  

[Jeff]

Corley, we'll make a date when the weather turns better and you got the mill opened backup for me to come up and I'll bring one of my (swages?) along.

[Ron Wenrich]

Yes, I always thought it was "swedge" until I saw "swage " somewhere in print.  Probably in some magazine.

I was at one mill that used to swage every time their saw was dull, but only sharpened every other time.  For some reason their saws got hot (probably from being dull).  To cool down the blades they would dump water on them.  They couldn't understand why their blades needed hammering so often.

I've seen sharpen, swage and sharpen.  Just seems like a waste of time and teeth to me.  I forget where I heard the sharpen then swage.  

I also use a spider guage to check side clearance, especially on new teeth.  You can get them all the same width which minimizes saw marks.

[Jeff]

I have a swedge here at the house. On the side of it says swage
So I guess a swedge is really a swage which I thought was a hanging light which is really a chandelier, which sounds like can-o-beer so I say, See ya later Im thirsty and outa here.

[Tom]

Well, I didn't know.  It isn't in my vocabulary, so I went to Websters.
 
Swedge isn't in the book.

Swage : a tool used by metalworkers for shaping their work by holding it on the work or the work on it and striking with a hammer or sledge  

                                               

[Corley5]

   We'll do that.  At the rate spring is arriving it maybe July  What kind of swage do you use?  The kind that is struck with a hammer which I believe is an upset,or the the kind I've seen in trade magazines with the levers and handles that looks expensive.

[Don P]

I try to sharpen, swage, sharpen. Didn't say I always did it .
It does seem to make it go easier to me...like I know anything about it. I figured it moved the thinner metal easier. Mine must be an upset.  I can tell I swage way too often by your descriptions, generally around every 4th sharp. I lose the log side of the tooth first as a rule, figured it was gigback wear on that side. I use a flat file and an Andrus to try to correct my angle every other time or so.
I'm using Simonds Standall BF 8/9 9/32" bits...So, whats the BF? Either?
My blade is an IKS 46" with 1 hole, no drive pins, I think 32 teeth...I always get confused when I go to take my socks off
Ron, what's a spider? can you get a pic of it in use?

[Brian_Rhoad]

When we had the circular mill we always sharpened, swaged & sharpened. The second sharpening was just a couple light passes. We used a hand crank filer first & a regular file after swaging. Sharpening first makes a big difference in the swaging process. You don't have to hit the swage as hard to spread the tooth because it isn't as thick as it would be dull. I've seen guys use big ball peen hammers to swage. We used a small carpenters hammer & didn't need to hit very hard.We also side dressed the teeth so they were close to all being the same width. I have a special file I made to do this. Side dressing makes the lumber much smoother.

[L. Wakefield]

I have a swedge here at the house. On the side of it says swage
So I guess a swedge is really a swage which I thought was a hanging light which is really a chandelier, which sounds like can-o-beer so I say, See ya later Im thirsty and outa here.

  No, I think the hanging light is a swag, and that does kinda sound like swig, which is where you were headed, so don't let me slow you down... but consider this when you've had 1 or 2 or more..keep going til this starts to make sense..swig COULD be used as one of those weird verbs that changes in strange ways as you go through time. Like swig, swag and swug, know wattamean, Vern? I swig it, I swag it yesterday, I have done swug the whole DanG thing and now my head hurts baad and I feel like HANGING from one a them chandeliers..they'll be calling YOU swag, buddy.  lw

[Ron Wenrich]

Spider gauge

Top view



Side view



There is an adjustment screw at the top.  You simply screw that to the length you want.  Then just hold it flat against the saw, and measure each tooth.  You will see how much to take off or add to make all the teeth the same.  You can easily find that wild tooth.  Costs about $20.

Saw gigging on the return?  Sounds like your saw might have a tendency to saw out.  That could mean worn out trucks on the carriage, you could use some more lead, or your guides aren't adjusted quite right.  

One quick remedy is to shorten the board side on the teeth.  You could have them swaged too hard on that side.  I just take a quick stroke off of the side of each tooth, and that usually straightens the saw out.  Vertical edgers will tell you when you are sawing off line real quick.

[Jeff Lesak]

The number of teeth you run in a circular saw depends mostly on horsepower. It takes 5 to 10 hp per tooth in the cut to run a circular saw. The bigger the diameter, the more power. In the old days, when horsepower was hard to come by, fewer teeth in the saw was the norm. The idea that a large gullet capacity saw is a soft wood saw is likely because you can feed faster in soft wood, and therefore need a bigger gullet capacity to hold the chips. A saw with a larger gullet capacity (B #3 pattern, for example) has fewer teeth as thay take more space on the rim to accomadate the bigger gullet. I'm not sure what you mean by "clean fast enough".
It is a general rule of thumb that the more teeth, the faster the feed, as long as you have the horsepower. (Remember, 5-10 HP/tooth in the cut) I don't think the saw should act any different in hard or soft wood. You should be able to push it just as hard.