Author Topic: Hit it in a log, whatisit? (Read 4389 times)

Jeff · « **on:** March 22, 2002, 08:28:00 pm »

I thought this was a slug, but it seems too hard. It was several inches within a red maple. Shows no sign of distortion like you would expect with a bullet. It is 1 and 1/4 inch long

psychotic1 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 22, 2002, 08:41:13 pm »

Looks like one of them there new-fangled saboted shotgun slugs to me too. Don't know why it didn't squish though. weird Might be tungsten or zinc alloy. Lead is verbotten don't ya know.

Bruce

Jeff · « **Reply #2 on:** March 22, 2002, 08:45:44 pm »

Its pretty hard and you can see by the saw marks brittle. Lead usually does not bother the saw, this did

psychotic1 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 22, 2002, 08:49:48 pm »

How heavy is it? I've heard of titanium being used in certain police and military ammo. Wouldn't think it would be heavy enough to fly very far in a shotgun, but you never know.

Jeff · « **Reply #4 on:** March 22, 2002, 08:58:05 pm »

Its not that hard. I just took my little knife, and I can scratch it quite readily, but not like ammo lead, which you can usually scrape with a fingernail.

Ya know what? could this be the end of a ramrod? Maybe somebody broke it off, or it came loose from a wooden handle, then fired it out? if you look in the hollow in pic and to the left, you willl see a trace of wood.

Tom · « **Reply #5 on:** March 22, 2002, 09:00:19 pm »

My first guess was some sort of fastener. You know, the kind that you use to hang stuff on a wall when there is no stud.

I just can't visualize this thing being shot from a gun.

The hole in back isn't too deep but it gave me another idea. It may be the head of a hunting arrow. One of those blunt shock performing type of arrows used for squirrels and other small game. The hole is deep enough for a glue joint to the shaft of the arrow. The lack of weight and hardness of the material would answer to this resolution as well. :-/

Bud Man · « **Reply #6 on:** March 22, 2002, 09:15:43 pm »

I vote for the ramrod Idea, you'd know if it were lead

But in the tree ? Maybe a whupping stick that a child hid in the crotch of a tree after getting a good whupping

Tillaway · « **Reply #7 on:** March 22, 2002, 09:59:20 pm »

My moneys with Bruce. It sure looks like a shotgun slug to me.

Bud Man · « **Reply #8 on:** March 22, 2002, 11:04:50 pm »

I thought kabot slugs had a rifling twist grove in them ! Maybe a handle crank for a roll-out casement window ?? Was it in a knot hole, like maybe a squirrel or bird put it in or was it in solid wood like it penetrated the wood ??

Rick-Wi · « **Reply #9 on:** March 23, 2002, 04:30:40 am »

It is a sabot slug. No rifleing is needed because the plastic that holds the slug grips the rifling on the barrel. when the slug exits the barrel, the plastic splits in half and separates fron the sabot, leaving the sabot to fly on its own. They are usualy a hardend lead alloy so the slug dosn't deform in the barrel, as the powder ignites. If it deforms it will not fly streight.

Rick-WI

Jeff · « **Reply #10 on:** March 23, 2002, 05:06:56 am »

Rick, that was my first thought, I just could not imagine that it could penetrate a maple and never distort at all. Answering a couple things above, the wood was solid, no stain or anything around this. I had to use a screwdriver to get it out. And it does have weight. Its heavy like lead. And I do agree, that it must be a lead alloy. Its to hard for lead, but to soft to be a ferrus metal.

Rick I still feel your PROBABLY right, but here is the thing now that has me unconvinced. Its the wood fiber in the hollow. It should not be there. If it was a sabot, it should have been the trailing edge so when it hit the log is should not have had any wood in it. Look at the picture below. (Did i ever say how much I love my camera?) you can see the remnant of wood fiber, and the grain direction. this is absoulutly straight with the object and looks like what would be left of an inserted wooden shaft, at least to me.

JoeyLowe · « **Reply #11 on:** March 23, 2002, 05:08:15 am »

:-/My vote is against the sabot slug. Most sabot slugs are rounder and will explode on contact with gelatin, much less wood. I believe it is an arrow head.

Bibbyman · « **Reply #12 on:** March 23, 2002, 05:17:53 am »

Could it be some kind of small-game arrow tip? Is the wood in the base of some other kind?

Your camera sure did a good job on the close-up. I’ve got a new Canon Pro-shot 20A and am very please except when it come to a close up shot. Maybe if I read the manual?

Rick-Wi · « **Reply #13 on:** March 23, 2002, 05:42:02 am »

There is no Question it is a Sabot. They make Sabots for everything from Black Powder rifles to shot guns. I use them for deer hunting and have seen them crunch Bone and not deform. As for how the wood got in the hollow end it could be that as the slug was penitrating the tree, it forms a vacume behind it (Balistics laws). The fibers of wood would follow the vacume till the slug stoped. and fill the cavity of the slug with the fiber. It isn't a arrow head because a arrow head that shape and size wouldnd do nothing but bounce off the tree. I have pulled sawn Miniballs from the cival war out of wood and they were not deformed. And That was in SYP.

Rick-Wi

Jeff · « **Reply #14 on:** March 23, 2002, 05:54:29 am »

The fiber in the base does look different then the maple it was in, but it is in contact with metal, and exposed to the air, so I don't know if that would explain color diff.

Here are two more views. You can see that it appears that the hollow end must have been filled with wood at one time, lots of residue. It was not full of woodwhen I dug it out of the log.

BiB, does your camera have a macro setting for focus? thats what I am using here. Actually These are reduces to 40% you should see the un-edited ones!

Jeff · « **Reply #15 on:** March 23, 2002, 06:08:45 am »

I am side steppin for one moment here so I can show Bibbyman the capabilities of this Sony. Here is a link to a picture of the corner of my eye. I put the lense right against my face. I did not use the zoom, though I could. I have optical zoom that would continue to stay clear. It would not degrade till I would use digital zoom.

I used a link to the picture, because I left it unoptimized to leave detail.

http://www.forestryforum.com/images/cornerofeye.jpg

Bibbyman · « **Reply #16 on:** March 23, 2002, 06:15:15 am »

Yuck! That’s too close – back up a little please.

Yea, I suspect with everything else the 20A camera can do, it will also do close-ups. I’ve got to go unload a load of logs so I ain’t got time now to check it out. (Logger called at 6:30 – wanting to deliver today because bad weather is moving in.)

Jeff · « **Reply #17 on:** March 23, 2002, 06:26:31 am »

Yuck is right! But the camera has allowed me to discover an unknown phenomenon. The uglier the corner of your eye appears the better looking you are. The corner of say, Tom Selek's, or Brad Pitt's eyes must be hideous.

Kevin · « **Reply #18 on:** March 23, 2002, 07:47:43 am »

GROSS!

Jeff, can you mic that object for the outside diameter?

Jeff · « **Reply #19 on:** March 23, 2002, 11:07:03 am »

I don't have a micrometer here but I do have ruler and it is just a hair shy of 1/2 inch in diameter.

Kevin · « **Reply #20 on:** March 23, 2002, 11:22:58 am »

Seems too large for an arrow, might be a ram rod tip for .50 cal. which is common.
You`ll want to have the wood fibers carbon dated now.
It`s most likely a mixture of lead and tin with a little more tin content to make it harder than the ball but not too hard so it doesn`t harm the bore.

Jeff · « **Reply #21 on:** March 23, 2002, 11:41:53 am »

Kevin, that is what I am thinking. Kinda wonder what the scenario is that it ended up in the tree. You would think that if it was an assident tha it broke off in the bore of the gun, that it would have been during the loading of the rifle and there would have been a slug or ball there to. I guess the ball could have missed the tree.

This is kinda like when I found the crosscut saw blade (bowsaw) in a tree. It was running verticle. Someone must have hung it to have it grown in lengthwise. Now that was hard! But I knew what it was after looking at it.

Texas Ranger · « **Reply #22 on:** March 23, 2002, 01:52:35 pm »

I believe it is a saboted slug called a "Block Buster" used to break engine blocks by police agencies. Some one decided to use one on a tree, or a deer, with the results you see. They are harder than lead being alloyed with zinc, or other metals to give a better impact.

WV_hillbilly · « **Reply #23 on:** April 10, 2002, 07:13:45 pm »

Hi Jeff,

This is a sabotslug out of a 12 ga. shotgun. They were sold by Winchster. The reason there are no rifling marks is this slug is encased in a 2 piece sabot that seperates after exiting the muzzle of the shotgun.I have a few of these too but without the saw marks. I found them in the backstop of our rifle range.The little wooden plug at the rear is from the factory as all the ones I have also have them. It must have to do with the balance of the slug.

Hope this helps you in identifying your find,
WV hillbilly

Bibbyman · « **Reply #24 on:** August 03, 2003, 03:46:16 pm »

This was a real showstopper. Good thing we'd already put about 700 bf on the new blade. Hate to have hit it on the first cut.

Porcelain insulator in large walnut log.

Jeff · « **Reply #25 on:** August 03, 2003, 04:28:29 pm »

yea daddy, those is fun. they will even spit circle parts around the mill.

solidwoods · « **Reply #26 on:** August 04, 2003, 06:56:45 pm »

Probably to late to ask what year it was put in the log (counting rings)?
Wasn’t impacted into the tree, no deformation.
What angle of entry into the log?
To late right?
Looks new.
Sure the wood wasn't growing in the socket?
Hang on to it.
The might come back for it.
JIM

mhasel · « **Reply #27 on:** August 04, 2003, 08:46:17 pm »

Jeff,

My vote too would have to be for a shotgun slug, given the dimensions however I'm just amazed that it didn't deform somewhat upon hitting the tree!! Makes me want to go out and experiment this weekend now

On your camera side note, do you mind sharing the make and model? I've been looking for some time but can't pull myself away from the flexibility that my 35 and telephoto lenses offer short of spending over a few K's but know that digital is what the future holds.

Enjoy and thanks,
Mike

Bibbyman · « **Reply #28 on:** August 27, 2003, 05:40:29 pm »

Mary nipped the top of one ear and pretty much cut the top off the other. Looks like a flagpole bracket. We went ahead and cut another board off this face and a slab off'n the other two sides before changing the blade. Those Wood-Mizer Double Hard blades can really cut metal!

AtLast · « **Reply #29 on:** August 27, 2003, 05:46:03 pm »

looks like a maix ball out of a muzzle loader

Jeff · « **Reply #30 on:** August 27, 2003, 06:07:37 pm »

Conduit clamp Bib. Thats gotta hurt.

Bibbyman · « **Reply #31 on:** August 27, 2003, 06:40:38 pm »

Oh yea, now I recognize it. I wonder if there are more up the same tree? Probably ran some outdoor lighting up that tree. I’m not sure where this log came from (farm or urban).

You know, I’ve heard big mills won’t touch urban and yard trees because of the chance of tramp metal. But we’ve hit all kinds of things in these walnut logs that have come from all over – some way out into the boonies. Got a couple of TT loads of walnut logs that came from an 1800-acre farm. They were full of wire, bullets and deer stand nails. Pretty expensive posts, deer stands and backstops.

We hit a lone 6d nail in a real nice second cut log last Saturday. No idea how it got up that high. Could have been some hunter used a portable stand and tacked a nail in the tree to hang something on.

It came from Manchester, MO. a suburb of St. Louis. I think it was the only metal we hit in the two TT loads.

Trouble with the forest/yard/urban thing is, with the population moving out into the country so fast, the line is blurred.

Jeff · « **Reply #32 on:** August 27, 2003, 07:18:27 pm »

We had a whole run of insulators in logs a couple years ago. The loggers never new they were there. They were in the 2nd and 3rd 8 foot logs in this stand of aspen. Turns out someone had run a powerline using the tree tops as poles to a remote cabin years ago.

Bibbyman · « **Reply #33 on:** August 27, 2003, 08:12:23 pm »

Back before there was even electricity in our area there were phone line ran through the woods from farmhouse to farmhouse. Most were nailed up into trees using blue glass insulators. Back when Dad was cutting barrel staves, we'd hit phone wire, nails, and such. I’m sure none of the metal got to the stave mill as the blue stain really shows up in white oak. Plus we cut the bolts in 37” lengths and split them.

Most of the blue glass insulators were broken or lost years earlier - probably shot by squirrel hunters. I remember seeing a few on the ground where they had fallen before they could be shot. For sure collector items now.

Mesquite Man · « **Reply #34 on:** August 28, 2003, 08:16:00 pm »

I am an avid archer and bow hunter and I can tell you it is ABSOLUTELY not anything to do with archery. Arrow points are quite light, the heaviest being around 125 grains. Anything mroe than that and it would not fly at all, even out of the most modern bow. Blunts are NEVER made out of lead but rather usually rubber. My vote is for the sabbot at well.

Sitruc

Tim · « **Reply #35 on:** September 01, 2003, 03:07:49 pm »

Looking at the gashes through the piece, I notice the nice even feed of the carriage through the saw. Compliments on the even hand Jeff.

Bibbyman · « **Reply #36 on:** September 30, 2003, 05:38:36 pm »

Hit a porcelain insulator in a very nice walnut log last weekend. (Also hit nails and bullets in other logs.)

Just nipped the edge and a nail.

Ol' fart farmer could have bought a post for less than a $1.00.

Instead he chose the tree that made this log.

Oregon_Sawyer · « **Reply #37 on:** September 30, 2003, 11:32:06 pm »

You have already been told. It is 12 guage shotgun Sabot.

I have dealt in guns and reloading equipment for over 30years. I don't do much with that anymore now that I have my sawmill.

We ran a retail store, reloaded 100's of thousands of pistol ammo. (Anyone want a commercial reloading machine. Set up for 45ACP. Ammo-load, 5000 rounds an hour, $14,000 new price) and taught NRA safety classes for concealed carry permits.

Bibbyman · « **Reply #38 on:** October 01, 2003, 05:52:47 am »

Yea, I got that O_S.

I'z just using this thread to post more junk that has been hit in logs rather than start a new thread. I like to conserve and re-cycle, you know.

I've reloaded ammo for myself for many years. Got a Dillon and Lymen press and a couple of Lee "nut cracker" reloaders. Cast my own bullets for handgun and buffalo rifles. Not been shooting much since we got into the sawmill business. No time. Been killing deer out of the same box of ammo for the past 5 or more years.

OneWithWood · « **Reply #39 on:** October 01, 2003, 10:32:25 am »

Bibby, how do you get them deer into the box?

Bibbyman · « **Reply #40 on:** October 01, 2003, 11:37:16 am »

I wrote a funny!

Oregon_Sawyer · « **Reply #41 on:** October 03, 2003, 11:47:44 pm »

Bibbyman:

I have two Dillon 1050's that I won't sell. I've hardly loaded any ammo this year.

About a month ago my oldest daughter (22) said she hadn't shot her 357 since she got married. (It was her 16th birthday present) So I dug out one of mine and some ammo. My other daughters (15 & 13) said they wanted to shoot too. We were out at our property where we are building our new house. They lined up to shoot. I stopped them. They said "We are being safe just like you taught us"!

I agreed but told them there was a new way to practice.

First: Safely point the gun where you are going to shoot.
Second: Yell out the following "You are trespassing on private property"
Third: Shoot multiple times (BANG, BANG, BANG)

Fourth: Reload and repeat!

Bibbyman · « **Reply #42 on:** October 04, 2003, 05:54:31 am »

I don't remember the model number of my Dillon. It's one of the earlier models. After I got mine, they came out with some great improvements - like the blocks you put your dies in and then can just swap out the blocks. Takes about a half hour of adjusting to change out calibers on the model I have. I had it set up for 45ACP most of the time and used the old Lymen press for everything else.

I got my son a Lee nutcracker setup so he could reload his 7mm and 357 ammo in the apartment he was staying. Got to using it and bought one for myself to load a few rounds now and then. Then I got to where I'd set in front of the TV and use it to load pistol ammo.

Oregon_Sawyer · « **Reply #43 on:** October 04, 2003, 11:30:19 pm »

I think the Dillon you have is the 450. You can upgrade it but, I would just buy a new one either the 500 or 550 depending on what you are loading.
It would work great to leave it for one caliber. Have you put a new powder measure on it or are you using the old one? If you are using the old one upgrade to the new powder measure itsa big improvement.

I have a Lee nutcracker setup also. I used to use it to deprime and resize when I was watching TV.

Now I'm on my laptop.

What powder are you using for your 45? I use Clays. It worked the best for matching the Police Department duty load. It also had less flash for night shooting.

Bibbyman · « **Reply #44 on:** March 25, 2005, 04:22:47 pm »

Got in a TT load of cherry logs yesterday. The hauler was kind enough to point out the heads of 3 RR tie spikes in the largest one.

Not a good picture day. Been overcast and dizmal all day.

tnlogger · « **Reply #45 on:** March 25, 2005, 04:30:09 pm »

bibby looks like you'll have some lokking and digging to do on that load

Back40x2 · « **Reply #46 on:** March 25, 2005, 07:17:05 pm »

My guess is either a .410 slug, or a slug used in one of those homemade guns to kill animals in slaughter houses?

Husky · « **Reply #47 on:** March 26, 2005, 11:27:02 am »

Guess there arn't too many hunters out there it a 12 gauge slug from a shot gun. It probably a Winchester and its staight lead.

Tom · « **Reply #48 on:** March 26, 2005, 04:28:10 pm »

I probably wouldn't know a slug if I saw it. We throw whole handfuls of stuff when we pop a 12 gauge cap down here. We don't grow much that 's so big we need hit it with a solid ounce of lead.......'ceptin' maybe the skeeters.

Kirk_Allen · « **Reply #49 on:** March 26, 2005, 09:28:05 pm »

As has been stated, IT IS A Sabot Slug from a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun.

Jeff, how deep in the log was it? If it was shot within 175 yards most of the time it will mushroom. If it was a wild shot that lost most of its energy it will penetrate a shallow distance into a tree but wont mushroom. It all depends on how much velocity it had at the time of impact.

I have reloaded all my ammo for about 20 years now. I have worked up a load for my 220 Swift that is wicked on the coyotes

Busted on last week from about 400 yards from my front porch

I love living in the country!

OS, what kind of deal you offering on the commercial reloader?

Bibbyman · « **Reply #50 on:** March 26, 2005, 10:24:40 pm »

I just read this thread from the start. Jeff posted it a little over 3 years ago.

Oregon_Sawyer · « **Reply #51 on:** March 26, 2005, 11:58:03 pm »

Kirk:

I was hoping to get $7,000 for it. Make me an offer. I would do some trading for

?.

Would you be interested in several boxes of factory 220 Swift Ammo?

They are left-over inventory from my gun shop. They are Hornady. (make me an offer) I shoot almost every 22 centerfire except this one.

Loren

samdland · « **Reply #52 on:** March 28, 2005, 11:27:09 pm »

That would be a sabbot slug. Likely aluminum

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Author Topic: Hit it in a log, whatisit? (Read 4389 times)

Kirk_Allen