Interior door plans

[Patty]

Hey there!

I attended my first woodworking class last night. Wow it was great! They have the coolest tools I've ever been around, and believe it or not, they are going to let me use them! I decided for my class project that I would make the interior doors for our upstairs bedrooms. The style I want to make is similar to the one pictured below.
http://www.spiritelements.com/images/products/large/1842.jpg

I am wondering if any of you have a set of plans for a door like this that I could use. I appreciate your help.

Thanks,
Patty

[Larry]

Think 6-panel doors are pretty much standard fair.  Just not used to seeing a 4-panel door.  I can measure the rails and stiles on our 36" doors but that is about all the help I can do.  Really liked your front door.  Take a lot of pictures of the interior doors as you make them.  I would like to try it but always was scared of them warping.

Little triva – anybody know the religious connotation of 6-panel doors?

[james]

Patty sorry no plans (im in a 18 wheeler in Ft Pierce Fl and my plans are at home in Republic Wa) but from experiance the pannels in the middle of the door need to be a slip fit not glued in place  the grain running at different angles can break the boards if the pannels cant move (experiance )

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Ya outta get ahold of DonE911 in Ft. Pierce. He works for the Emergency Services. We are just 30 miles north of you, in Sebastian.

[Patty]

So, Harold, are you thinking I need to get the emergency services on alert before I go back to class next Monday?  

The front door I made I used biscuits to join it together, I want to use the  joint & tenon  (sp?) method on the inside doors. The first one will be made of cherry, that we cut off the farm. I had been thinking about making the raised panals out of a contrasting wood, like walnut or something, but I'm afraid it might look too busy.

Do any of you home builders or craftsmen have experience in door making?

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Nahhh Patty. I was directin my comment to James. Course, I think you knew that.

[Hokiemill]

Hey Patty.  I built a mahogany storm door for the front of our house and I need to build a replacement front door, but haven't found the time yet.  Doors are all pretty much the same whether they are storm doors, exterior doors, interior doors, or cabinet doors.  Rails, stiles, and floating panels.

James is right, in that you definitely do not glue your panels in place.  The joinery is pretty straight forward - mortise and tenon.  The only oddity is usually the bottom rail - it's rather wide and is usually attached to the stiles with two separate tenons or two tenons with a small haunch tenon between.

Here's a link to a pretty good picture of what I"m talking about with the tenon:

LONG LINK

Here's a link to a step by step set of instructions for a screen door.  Not the same as yours but the concept is the exact same:

LONG LINK

This storm door used flat panels in the lower section.  You would do everything the same but your panel would look a little different.  Lots of different ways to do raised panels.  Depend a lot on what tools you have available.  They can be cut on a table saw, on a router table with a horizontal bit, on a router table with a vertical bit, or even by hand with a panel plane (yeah, who are we kidding, we're a power tool bunch here).

This link shows a review of a vertical bit in a router table to give you a general idea:
http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/infvertpnlbitrvu.html

The mortise and tenons can be made a hundred different ways as well.  Once again, this depends on the tools you have available and which method you like the best.

As for dimensions of rails and stiles - run to your local Lowes, etc. and pull dimensions off of the doors they have in stock that have proportions that are pleasing to your eye.

One final thing - I agree with your thoughts about the door looking too busy with contrasting wood.  Cherry is absolutely beautiful by itself, especially after a year or two and it has darkened in color.  I know this is all a bunch of blabbing on my part and I hope that it doesn't make things seem more difficult than they are.  Doors are pretty straightforward and I'm sure yours will look great when done.

[Patty]

Thanks, Hokiemill, the links you provided are perfect. The shop we get to use has all the coolest tools, including a shaper to make the raised panals, and a  mortise & tenon machine. He (the shopteacher) demonstrated the shaper, but I haven't seen the mortise & tenon machine yet.

No, Larry, I don't know the religious conotation of the 6 panal door.....what is it?

[Larry]

Don’t know if the design is based on fact or if this is just a story but if you look at a 6 panel door you see a cross in the top half and open bible in the bottom half.

I’m sure you will do fine making your door.  The only thing I would think about is the raised panel may shrink dependent on MC.  Lot of people pre-finish the panel (myself included) before assembly so an unfinished strip won’t show when it does shrink.  Other people flood the finish with a blowgun after assembly.

Contrasting woods are pretty cool but most of the time less is more.  Cherry door with walnut strip inlay?  I have tried all kind of things.  Some worked and some didn’t.  I hate to duplicate something that can be store bought so I’ll normally try something off the wall.  Guess that is what makes woodworking fun to me.

[shopteacher]

Patty,
 I use rail and stile cutters with the shaper to cut matching profiles for the rail and style of my doors.  1 3/8" for interior and 1 3/4" for exterior.  On a standard door I usually make the stiles (vertical members) 5" to 6" wide and the rail (horiz. members) 9" to 12" on the bottom and adjust the others to my liking. I cut the center mullon the same as the outer stile and as it's shaped on both sides to receive the panel it appears smaller in the center of the door.  The cutters I have cut a 3/8" deep slot so I cut the panel 5/8" larger than the openings. You can buy little rubber balls called spaceballs to go in the bottom of the groove to keep the panel from rattleing or I've taken silicon sealant and squeeze a bead out on waxpaper and let it cure and then cut it into small pieces and put that in the bottom of the groove.  This allows for expansion without having the panels move around in the door.
  As stated earlier I prefinish the panels to keep unfinished wood from showing if the panel shrink due to heat & humidity.
 The cope and stick joint makes a very strong joint due to the large amount of surface area.  The glue area is as long as the rail is wide and has several internal surfaces for glue to lay.
 Almost forgot, congratulations on taking the class and have fun.

[Patty]

I've read your post many times trying to understand all that you are telling me, Shopteacher. Please don't sigh and shake your head when you read my questions  .

First question: The rails and styles,  how are you joining them?  I had supposed that these would be joined by the mortice &  tenon method.

Second question: I've done some reading about the  cope & stick joint, and as far as I can tell, this method is used to connect the raised panals to the rails and styles, am I understanding this correctly? I therre more to it that this groove?


Third question: About this cope & stick joint. Aren't you just cutting a groove into the rail & style for the edges of the panal to fit into?  Am I misunderstanding this joint somehow?

I've got until Monday to get this all figured out, so I can go into the class with a plan to execute.

[trim4u2nv]

THESE GUYS ;LISTED BELOW HAVE A GOOD ILLUSTRATION HOW TO MAKE COPE AN STICKER JOINTS.  I HAVE DOORS THAT WE MADE TWENTY YEARS AGO IN GOOD SHAPE WITH JUST GLUE HOLDING THEM TOGETHER.   I ALSO USED THRU MORTISE CONSTRUCTION, DOWELS, AND LAG BOLTS ALSO.   BUT FOR INTERIOR CONSTRUCTION THESE METHODS ARE PROBABLY OVERKILL.  GRIZZLY AND FREUD SELL COMPLETE CUTTER SETS FOR SHAPERS.  YOU CAN ALLOW FOR DIFFERENT THICKNESS BY USING A DIFFERENT MIDDLE CUTTER FOR INTERIOR VS EXTERIOR DOORS.  BE SURE TO USE A SLED WITH A BACKUP (COPE CUT) RAIL TO PREVENT CUTTER TEAROUT ON RAIL ENDS.
http://www.weaver-sales.com/catalog-cutters-house-door-delux.htm

[shopteacher]

Patty,
I try and explain it better and have taken some picture of my setup pieces that will probably explain it better than me.
 1. The rails and stiles are joined with carpenters or polyurethane glue. The cope and stick joint is similar to a mortise and tenon.
 2. It's not used to connect the raised panel "to" the rail and stile, as the panel is never physically joined to the rail and stile.  The cope provides a matching face for the stick on the joining parts ( rail & stile). The cope continues the length of the style and around the mullion and center rail to form the Grove for the panel to reside in.
 3. It is a grove and more with an identical opposite matching face. Cope on edge of the parts and stick on the end of the parts.
   The door is a 6 panel oak door on our kitchen pantry. All you need to make a 4 panel is to adjust the panel size and the top, center and bottom rail.
Rail & Stile & Panel
Rail & Stile Joined
Cross Section of Cope & Stick
Pantry 6 Panel Door
Bottom Where Rail and Stile Join

Lock Rail and Stile Joint
Top Rail & Mullion Joint

[trim4u2nv]

For sleds and jigs for door making here is another link

http://www.weaver-sales.com/weaver-woodworking-accessories-r.htm

[Patty]

Thanks guys, your help is appreciated. Nice door there shopteacher, your attention to detail is amazing.

Now that I've seen how a real craftsman makes a door,  I am very motivated. However I must admit, I had no idea  there was so much involved. I'm going to take your photos to my shopteacher and ask him to help me duplicate what you have done. Your door is really beautiful.

Thanks again

[serg]

Russian forum is not present such discussion. Excellent(different) discussion! Sergey

[shopteacher]

Patty,
 That door was built from a red oak that grew on the family homestead and that I play in and nailed steps on 45 years ago( that sure came back to haunt me as a sawyer).  The machines and cutters do most of the work. I'm mostly just there to feed the wood in.  Got those machines trained better than the kids.  Building the round wall was the tough part.

[Patty]

Are you ready for more questions?! I was planning on wiping on a clear finish. I have been using 20-30% diluted poly- mix solution (And no stain) for my floors, baseboards, and stair treads. Will this work ok on the door? And if so, how many coats would you suggest?

Also, what tool did you use to cut your cope & stick joints? I have a shaper available to me, would you suggest a different tool?

Are your panals the same thickness (1 3/8") as the rails and stiles? Do you have a favorite glue, or better yet, is there a glue that you say NOT to use?

I am picking my boards out this afternoon from our dry stacks, what thickness do you start out with? Is 6/4 thick enough to get the end result to be 1 3/8?

Ok, that is it for now, I think!    

[shopteacher]

One of the finishes I've come to like very much is made by General Finishes in Ohio.  They have two different types. Armor Finish is a very durable finish and the one I've used the most. There is also a Royal Finish that I believe is a satin finish.  With open grain wood I use a paste wood filler to fill the grain and the one I found to work best for me is by WoodKote. The door in the picture is red oak with a walnut wood filler to give an antique appearance.  If you want a natural look us oak filler. I generally use 2 or 3 coats depending on the look of the previous coat.  What you have been using should work fine and from your own experience you should be able to tell it wearability and if it's the look you desire.  I prefer a satin finish on most of my projects.  I have the students use between 15 and 20 coats of gloss poly on their table and when done it's deep enough to look as if you could reach into the finish.
  The cutter I use was purchased from Grizzly I have a link to their site http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2004/406.cfm? With it you will need a raised panel cutter.
   Panels start out at 1" planed and it depends on the style of the panel cutter.  I use titebond or Elmers Type ll.
  Depending on the roughness of the stock 6/4 should be plenty thick. You want a planed 1 3/8" for the rail and stiles.
  Well got to get back to sawing. I'm cutting cherry and just finished some 8/4 clear cherry.

[Patty]

Well class was fun last night, but here I am back with more questions!  

I got all my boards cut and approached the teacher about running them through the shaper for the cope and stick joints. Well he has the bits for the panals since they are 1" stock, but did not have the bits for the 1 3/8 " stock for the rails and stiles. He has a PowerMatic Shaper that looks older than me  , and says the shaft is 1/2" on it. Today, I  looked for the bits on the internet, holy cow!   They are running about $440 for the set, and I found them at Weavers. http://www.weaver-sales.com/catalog-cutters-house-door-delux.htm
Is this an ok price? Where do you order yours from?
Yesterday before class, Doug-in-Utah called and walked me through the processes of door making. What a nice suprise!! All you guy's helpful hints are very much appreciated.