Goin' to an auction this Sat-what to buy? ;-)

[Paschale]

Should be fun to go to this woodworking auction this Saturday.  All pretty much industrial stuff, and mainly 3 phase.  

http://artsmithauctions.com/100904/index.cfm

The only thing that I might seriously consider is the spindle sander--anyone ever seen one of these?  It's a "State model B4 tilt bed spindle sander"


http://artsmithauctions.com/100904/images/111l.jpg

I hear it can be expensive to buy a convertor from 3ph to single phase...any thoughts?

Regardless, an auction's always fun!

What would you guys buy?  

[Bruce_A]

Paschale;  I started to try and write out my wiring schematic and CRS popped up again.  Suffice it to say that I start a 10 hp 3 phase with a single phase kicker motor of the same speed.  I go into the 10 hp with two wire 0f single phase and it produces the third leg for three phase, over to a junction box to split to two or three lines.  This will start a 10 hp three phase, then another in about thirty seconds, and then another.  I use a knife switch with 30 amp breaker fuses to facilitate the start up which draws 3 to 6 times the amount of juice that it takes to run.  This home built roto-phase cost me about $200 total and maybe a day to build once I did about a week of leg work trying to find one similar that worked.  I used it to run a ten hp trim saw and ten horse gang rip with a three horse feed motor at the same time. Turned out that the gang rip was wired to 460 and did not rip good till it was wired back to 230 and then it was fine.  A Y-wired motor is required for the phase convertor and efficiency is supposed to be about 90%.  You can run up to the same hp motor as the convertor and up to three times total hp.  Look around for some old timers who are not electricians and you may find a unit being used in a machine shop or old farm shop.  Good luck.

[shopteacher]

I have that State sander in my home shop.  It's a very well built piece of equipment and does an excellent job.  I bought it at a school auction and had to have a gear made for it at a local machine shop. Cost me about 60.00 for the gear. I think parts are still available and they may even still be in business, but not sure of that.  The guy who works on our school equipment has repaired a few of them , so I guess he can get parts.  We have a Grizzly spindle sander at school and it has proven to be a very good machine as well.
  Do a search on phase converters and you will find information and wiring diagrams for constructioning your own. If you build one with a capacitor bank and tweak it a bit you will have a much truer and closer generated three phase output than just from using a three phase motor alone.  I've built several converters and they work as well as three phase from the power company. My last one is set up with remote control to turn it on and off. If I can be of any assistance let me know.

[Tom_Averwater]

I would get that Moak jointer .It would be nice for making panels flat.One of these days I will get me one .I wouldnt be afraid of 3 ph. machines . It's not that hard to build a converter. Tom

[Paschale]

I have that State sander in my home shop.  It's a very well built piece of equipment and does an excellent job.  I bought it at a school auction and had to have a gear made for it at a local machine shop.

Hey Shopteach...

Do you happen to remember what you paid for that State sander?  It's hard to know what one's worth.  It looks like it's a great machine, which would work well in the shop.  Doesn't look like there's much of a possibility for dust collection, though I suppose on most sanders that's the case.  The company is still in business, and in fact, they still manufacture essentially the exact same sander, so it sounds like parts are available.  I read on another forum that replacement spindles are around $80, and that the machine comes with ten different sizes standard.  It looks like most of them are there, but I'll definitely check that out at the auction.


Thanks for the replies.

That Moak Jointer looks impressive--I think everybody could use a 16" jointer ;-), but man, it sure looks like it has a massive footprint.  I'll be curious to see how much it goes for.

[shopteacher]

If I remember correctly it was around 400. If I'd known at the time about the bad gear I probably wouldn't have bid at all.  It's three phase and I just put a bank of run caps on it to create a third phase from the two phase going in.  I probably bought it about 10 or more years ago.

[Engineer]

I'd go with the State sander.  They are always nice to have in a shop.  Make sure it works, and don't go too high on the $$$.  Visit www.owwm.com if you need more info on a lot of these tools.

I'd also be looking seriously at the Moak jointer, except that I have a 16" jointer and really don't need another one.  

[Furby]

Thanks Paschale!
Haven't had time to go to any of Art's auctions in a month or two. This one is just down the street from my parents so...............I'll see ya there!!!!  


What time are ya heading over there? We need to get together so we don't start a bidding war between ourselves.   Been there and done that, it DON'T work!  

[rbarshaw]

I saw a frequency converter in the auction. I've heard that these can be converted into a 3 phase system to run 3 phase motors. Don't know where or how myself but it could be worth checking out.

[Paschale]

Hey Furby,

Though you might find this interesting.  :-D  I'll see you there.  I'm going to get there early to check things out.  Should be fun, even if I end up not buying anything.  I'll look for you there!

I called that company, State Mfg. to get a price on a brand new model of that spindle sander.  Hopefully the guy will call me back tomorrow with the info--that should give me a good idea of what to bid.

[Skeeter]

Paschale,

Its too far for me to go to ....but I would be interested in knowing what that 8" General Jointer goes for.

Nice machine there.

Would also like to know what that Maok goes for and the spindle sander.

Can ya post some prices for those of us that just want to know ?

Thanks,
Skeeter

[Paschale]

Skeeter,

Sure will...I'll post a follow-up after I get back.

Dan

[Paschale]

Well, finally getting around to posting the post-auction rundown.  Saw Furby there, and had a good time watching the proceedings.  I ended up not buying anything, but Furby picked himself up a few things, including a massive dust collector system for $80.  

This auction featured some AMAZING deals.  Most of the equipment featured industrial WW equipment for serious production.  

There was a Holz-Her Accord 1442 EdgeBander that went for $5000.  On a website here in GR, one's for sale, used, for $24,900.

The 8" General Jointer went for $600, and the Moak 16" Jointer went for $600 too.

The State spindle sander I was interested in went for $500.

A Powermatic 18" Planer went for $2000, definitely a fair price.  An older PM 18" went for $1500.  

But the real deals were in a consignment part of the auction.  There was a Zangheri & Boschetti Boring machine that went for $650.  Found the cheapest online of that one for $2195.

A Double Vacuum pump for a CNC router, which looked like it'd hardly been used went for $50.  Yes, 5-0.

A Hendricks horizontal beam panel saw went for $100.  Saw that here http://www.barbomachinery.com/SiteFiles/usedlistprint.asp for $17,500.

A Wemhoner Case Good Clamp went for $100.  Saw that here http://www.calwoodmach.com/misc.asp for $5,500.

A Giben Panel Saw went for $175.  Couldn't find this exact saw online, but one similar here: http://www.i-55.com/portiers/usedmachines2.html#panel%20saws for $10,000.

A Baxter Whitney 18" table saw went for $125--saw this online for $1950.

A 36" Meber Bandsaw went for $600.

An SCMI sliding table saw, which was AMAZING, went for $900.

Most of these machines that went in the $100 ranger were MASSIVE, and I had no clue what they did.  :-)  Some people really got some amazing deals that day, and it sure was fun.  Speaking of deals...I didn't even mention the steals for lumber, molding and doors.  How about 10 brand new oak fire rated doors for $12.50?  One guy just bought a bunch of these doors to use as a floor in his barn.  There were tons of these doors.  Everyone who bid got a good deal on something.  I sorta felt bad for the owner of the items!

Anyway, that's the update.  A little long, but I just had to share the deals these guys got.  Unbelievable stuff!  I just wish I coulda stuffed one of those hundred dollar machines in the trunk of my volvo!  

[Furby]

Yeap, was a good auction!  

Took three trips to get everything home, only broke the trailer once.  
Got a deal on the Hammond dust collector as Paschale said. Got some cheap counter tops. Also got a couple dozen of them doors for about 80 cents a piece. Some of them are REAL nice looking and some have a little bit of water staining from the rain, but for the price.....they are well worth it. On the bottom of the pile that nobody wanted that got thrown in with one of the piles I bought, there was a REAL NICE aspen door. All ready for a couple of sheets of glass.  
Gonna have to stay away from the auctions for a while, kinda blew my budget.   Got to start saving up for the BIG one coming up in Dec.  

[jerry-m]

Auction, Man I Love an Auction, any ole Auction, gets my blood flowing real good  Glad you guys had a good time and Furby got some fantastic deals

I both sell and buy at auctions, well I used to   but not much any more... Dont remember my best buy, but I sure do remember my worst sell  I once sold a pallet of coil nails for the some total of $5.00 I thought that was for each box which would still have been a bargain   oh well you have to take the bad with the good

Take care, Jerry

[Furby]

Yeah, it can be hit or miss.
Kinda kicking myself for not getting a few things, woulda been worth it.  :-/

[Skeeter]

Paschale,

Thanks for postin' them prices.....I wisht I coulda gone now !!!!

Skeeter

[pasbuild]

Furby could U give me more info on the Dec. auction.

[etat]

Last time I was at an auction, an estate sale,  there sorta toward the end I kinda got my dander up.  I know, I ought not to get that way but sometimes it just sorta happens by accident.  

I'd been bidding on, and just about won a antique curio cabinet and all of a sudden this guy I used to know kicked in and upped the bid, after everybody else had quit. This was  just before it sold and I won it.   I'd done just about went as high as I wanted to anyways but I noticed this big ole [I have typed a profane word that is automatically changed by the forum censored words program I should know better] eating grin on the guys face.  Like he'd really done something.  (I hadn't seen him in years, we were never friends, and I was even poorer back in them days than I am now. ) So I just kept watching his eyes, and bidding.  Before he'd even think about it he was a jumping my bid.

The wife, bless her heart, was getting really excited and starting to elbow me.  Hard. More than once. She didn't know who I was a bidding against or what I was a doing.  She's trying to tell me I'd done gone crazy, but I weren't a listening, I just kept watching that guys eyes, trying to read his mind.  Couple a hundred dollars later, WAY too high, I QUILT and let him have it.  I SURE was a glad he didn't quit before I did cause the wife would a probably killed me!  The price it sold for was  outrageous.

Afterwords I went over and congratulated the guy on his purchase and shook his hands.  I didn't tell him I wouldn't a kept bidding if he wouldn't a kept grinning.  

When you go to them auctions I'd recommend  watch out for the nuts who's gonna keep a bidding the price up way to high on something.

Another thing you want to watch out for, at least it used to happen around here sometimes at equiptment sales, is somebody working as a shill for the auction company trying to run the prices up on purpose.  I haven't seen the bunch I'm talking about  around in several years but a lot of what they'd sell at a open tractor auction belonged to them. Before they'd let one go too cheap their guy would either bump up the price and if it didn't go high enough he'd win it for em and they'd just go ahead and lug it to their next auction.    

[Tom_Averwater]

ckate,
       My brother caught an auctioneer using a phantom bidder once on an air compressor. The auctioneer ended up buying it. Pie in his face.