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Author Topic: New firewood processor build  (Read 11009 times)

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Offline 711ac

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Re: New firewood processor build
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2015, 08:36:46 pm »
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what western ME town?

Offline mjeselskis

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Re: New firewood processor build
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2015, 09:40:15 pm »
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what western ME town?
I'm near Rumford.

I've got a hydraulic question for those with more experience. Snowstorm brought up a concern on my hydraulic plan in another thread.

My saw motor will be driven from a variable displacement piston pump that ran the hydrostatic drive motors on the donor machine. I will use mechanical linkage to control the flow out of the pump once the bar starts moving out of its parked position.

The bar movement will be controlled with a simple, two way cylinder and single spool valve.

My concern is that there is no feedback from the saw motor pump pressure to the saw bar movement cylinder. I could apply to much pressure to the bar and put to much strain on the saw motor pump.

I'm envisioning a flow control valve that varies based on pilot pressure of some sort. I'd like to be able to feed the saw motor circuit pressure into it to control the max flow available to the saw cylinder. Keep in mind that the saw motor and saw cylinder run on two different pumps.

Is there such a thing? Thoughts? Suggestions?
2006 WM LT28  2002 John Deere 990

Offline North River Energy

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Re: New firewood processor build
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2015, 10:13:41 pm »
Not familiar with your particular saw drive motor, but would it not be simple enough to set up the saw advance with a flow control and independent adjustable relief, and then run it to see if the more complicated scheme is warranted?
After a fashion, you'll probably be able to find the ideal feed rate by 'feel'.
 FWIW, the Multitek processor one town over incorporates a single-acting cylinder with spring return for saw feed.

Offline 4x4American

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Re: New firewood processor build
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2015, 10:13:59 pm »
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Boy, back in my day..

Offline snowstorm

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Re: New firewood processor build
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2015, 08:02:01 am »
subscribed
what western ME town?
I'm near Rumford.

I've got a hydraulic question for those with more experience. Snowstorm brought up a concern on my hydraulic plan in another thread.

My saw motor will be driven from a variable displacement piston pump that ran the hydrostatic drive motors on the donor machine. I will use mechanical linkage to control the flow out of the pump once the bar starts moving out of its parked position.

The bar movement will be controlled with a simple, two way cylinder and single spool valve.

My concern is that there is no feedback from the saw motor pump pressure to the saw bar movement cylinder. I could apply to much pressure to the bar and put to much strain on the saw motor pump.

I'm envisioning a flow control valve that varies based on pilot pressure of some sort. I'd like to be able to feed the saw motor circuit pressure into it to control the max flow available to the saw cylinder. Keep in mind that the saw motor and saw cylinder run on two different pumps.

Is there such a thing? Thoughts? Suggestions?
why run 2 pumps for the saw and the saw cyl? if using a load senseing pump and valves it could run bolth. control the saw cyl with the pressure relief valve. you dont need a big cyl for the saw. my keto ctl head dose it this way. it works very well . a saw cyl with a 1/2 to 3/4" rod is big enought. piston pumps are great but more complex. with load sense line and standby pressure. you need to really do your homework. if you could find a cheap or parted out ctl head. you would have the saw motor mount saw cyl all you would need ready to bolt on

Offline mjeselskis

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Re: New firewood processor build
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2015, 07:22:34 pm »
subscribed
what western ME town?
I'm near Rumford.

I've got a hydraulic question for those with more experience. Snowstorm brought up a concern on my hydraulic plan in another thread.
why run 2 pumps for the saw and the saw cyl? if using a load senseing pump and valves it could run bolth. control the saw cyl with the pressure relief valve. you dont need a big cyl for the saw. my keto ctl head dose it this way. it works very well . a saw cyl with a 1/2 to 3/4" rod is big enought. piston pumps are great but more complex. with load sense line and standby pressure. you need to really do your homework. if you could find a cheap or parted out ctl head. you would have the saw motor mount saw cyl all you would need ready to bolt on

Running two pumps because I have them from the donor and pumps are expensive. I'll have to dig out my hydraulics textbook from college and see what I can figure out. I do like your idea snowstorm if I was buying all new equipment. I do need to do my homework on the piston pump, as I don't fully understand why there are so many ports on the pump compared to a gear pump.
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Offline snowstorm

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Re: New firewood processor build
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2015, 06:09:15 am »
how many ports? one to tank one pressure and one or more load sense

Offline mjeselskis

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Re: New firewood processor build
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2015, 08:14:17 pm »
5 ports. It's from a hydrostatic application so two go to the motor. One looks a suction line due to the fitting. Not sure what the other two are for. One maybe relief back to the tank?

It's an Eaton 70145 pump




2006 WM LT28  2002 John Deere 990

Offline mjeselskis

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Re: New firewood processor build
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2015, 08:51:54 pm »
Did some more digging. It appears there is a charge pump to bring oil from the tank, makes sense. Does a charge pump have a discharge line?

In the first picture, from left to right. It's case drain, pressure line, and charge pump suction line. In the second picture, the big one is obviously the other pressure line, and I'm wondering if the smaller one is the charge pump discharge line?
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Offline snowstorm

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Re: New firewood processor build
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2015, 07:23:22 am »
top picture what is that shaft on the left with the plate with 2 screws? did that control the speed of the mower? i dont see a controller on that pump that would also have the pressure relief and load sense. you may be better off using open center gear pumps. that would keep it simple and less expensive

Offline mjeselskis

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Re: New firewood processor build
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2015, 08:55:40 am »
The shaft controls the motor flow. It's not a pressure compensated pump. I plan to control the flow with mechanical linkage based on the bar position. It is different, but in some ways simpler since there are no valves to control the flow to the saw motor.
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Offline mjeselskis

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Re: New firewood processor build
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2015, 07:14:28 pm »
Almost done the splitter end done, just need to add some flat bar for the grate and get everything all welded up. Got the rolls in rough position and got the engine degreased and set in rough position as well.





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Offline Theo

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Re: New firewood processor build
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2015, 05:12:51 pm »
Nice job

make sure that you have an guide system (log stopper to desired seize)

An that the  Guide is fixed (not a chain) and gives some  loose to your piece of wood once start cutting (So wood will not stoke between guide and chain bar)

It's also fun to have an automatic engagement of the splitter (once you down cuting) to save time and not have to start the spliting proces by hand on each peace of wood

I am in the wood processor business (sold 30 this year)  So if you need some advice or pictures... please send me an PM

THEO
HUD-SON and Range-Road & KASCO Canada Dealer

Offline mjeselskis

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Re: New firewood processor build
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2015, 08:10:47 pm »
Nice job

make sure that you have an guide system (log stopper to desired seize)

An that the  Guide is fixed (not a chain) and gives some  loose to your piece of wood once start cutting (So wood will not stoke between guide and chain bar)

It's also fun to have an automatic engagement of the splitter (once you down cuting) to save time and not have to start the spliting proces by hand on each peace of wood

I am in the wood processor business (sold 30 this year)  So if you need some advice or pictures... please send me an PM

THEO

Thanks Theo,
I'd be interested in pictures of the log stop you mentioned. I'd planned to just use chain like most of the others I'd seen.
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Offline Theo

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Re: New firewood processor build
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2015, 07:21:19 pm »
The 2 big disadvantage of a chain

-1  is that it always moves (vibration of the machine)
not easy to keep the length from one piece to an other

- 2 With an chain you have to do an visual stop, while a fixed guide is a physical stop (log can not go further)
at the end of the day it can make an diference on the time saved

Theo
HUD-SON and Range-Road & KASCO Canada Dealer

Offline mjeselskis

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Re: New firewood processor build
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2015, 08:21:26 pm »
The 2 big disadvantage of a chain

-1  is that it always moves (vibration of the machine)
not easy to keep the length from one piece to an other

- 2 With an chain you have to do an visual stop, while a fixed guide is a physical stop (log can not go further)
at the end of the day it can make an diference on the time saved

Theo
How about a fixed, solid stop? Would it affect how the cut off piece falls? Why does it need to be retractable? Thinking a piece of 2" square tube would make a solid stop.
2006 WM LT28  2002 John Deere 990

Offline lopet

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Re: New firewood processor build
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2015, 10:37:01 pm »
If your stop doesn't give away when you're cutting, your bar and chain will bind when the block starts to brake off.

Mine is t ed off the saw arm and gets out off the road when the bar comes down. They both return on air pressure.
Just to give you a idea.

 

 

 
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Offline mjeselskis

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Re: New firewood processor build
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2015, 06:44:38 pm »
Nice job

make sure that you have an guide system (log stopper to desired seize)

An that the  Guide is fixed (not a chain) and gives some  loose to your piece of wood once start cutting (So wood will not stoke between guide and chain bar)

It's also fun to have an automatic engagement of the splitter (once you down cuting) to save time and not have to start the spliting proces by hand on each peace of wood

I am in the wood processor business (sold 30 this year)  So if you need some advice or pictures... please send me an PM

THEO

Theo sent me some pics to show the log stop



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Offline DeerMeadowFarm

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Re: New firewood processor build
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2015, 10:30:10 am »
I went back, but still couldn't find it...? What are you using for an engine?

Offline kiko

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Re: New firewood processor build
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2015, 10:07:22 pm »
The fifth one is most likely auxiliary  charge pressure port and would probably be plugged in your application.  A pressure reduction valve drawing off the saw motor flow could be used for bar down pressure eliminating an extra function, but you may already be on to that one.