Author Topic: another home built bandmill nearing completion (Read 3273 times)

jpad_mi · « **on:** September 07, 2004, 04:46:24 pm »

My brothers and I have been building a bandmill for the last year and a half. The head assembly was about 90% complete this spring when we started on the bed/trailer. Yesterday we were finally able to pull it out of the barn and test the hydraulic functions on the trailer (tapers and log loaders complete, need one more hose for the posts). We were thrilled that it lifted a big ash log (27in small end and 13.5ft long). We hope to be able to finish up the head assembly in the near future and actually start making lumber..

I know you guys like pics, so here you go:

20ft bed, target cutting length of 16ft 6in, 5200# axle with brakes:

Log loaders in travel position on the trailer::

Big ash on the loaders:

Success!

Log taper (one of two):

Post (one of three operated by one cylinder)

11hp Honda, 6gpm pump, 10gal resevoir, 5 spool Prince sectional valve bank (one motor spool for future carriage drive):

Manual clamp (one of two). I'm not sure how much clamp force is required, but we will be able to generate a good deal with these levers)::

Furby · « **Reply #1 on:** September 07, 2004, 04:52:16 pm »

WOW!!!!
Not bad at all!!!

Any idea what the tonge weight will be?
What does the head assy. look like?

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #2 on:** September 07, 2004, 04:53:45 pm »

Nice lookin outfit. Ya got some different ideas in your construction. If you can lift that log you should have no problem with most others.

Do those loader arms turn for travel and go back for loading

Can't quite make it out

LogRite · « **Reply #3 on:** September 07, 2004, 05:49:46 pm »

It looks awesome. Keep up the good work.

p.s. I know a nice shade of blue you could use to paint it.

Gilman · « **Reply #4 on:** September 07, 2004, 05:56:48 pm »

I like your log loaders, nice and simple.

jpad_mi · « **Reply #5 on:** September 07, 2004, 07:59:30 pm »

Thanks for the kind words. We designed this mill without ever having seen a real bandmill, just pics in the sales brochures and on the internet (a coworker just recently got a used LT40HD and I spent a few hours drooling on his machine

). I'm sure this is a big disadvantage, and I anticipate that we will have to tweak the design along the way.

Furby - The tongue weight is surprising reasonable at this point; my brother lifted it without too much effort. We struggled with where to put the axle, keeping on mind tongue weight, tail swing, and where to mount the rear loader. The spring hangers are welded to large angle iron which is bolted to plates welded on the frame in case we have to adjust the position in the future. I figure we can use the head assembly as a counterbalance to fine tune the tongue weight. I don't have any recent pics of the head assy but here's a couple from this spring :

16hp Kawasaki, temporary spare tires, 16inch depth of cut, approx 31in max between blade guides, 15'3" band, bronze bushings on DOM guide tube, 12volt up/down

Is there a typical method of locking the carriage to the bed for travel? We were just planning to use chain and binders, but wonder how others are doing it.

FDH - yes, the loaders are positioned for travel. We welded 4inchx1/4 angle to the frame to sandwich the downtube of the loaders. To prepare for sawing we just pull two hitch pins, slide the downtube out, spin 90 degrees and re-pin. It is free to slide up/down as I figured it would be better to send the majority of the load to ground rather than hang it off of the frame. There is a positive stop on the downtube for travel position. Her's a smaller crop of the previous picture to show better detail.

LogRite - I'm not sure that my monitor is accurately displaying LR blue. Please send a 5ft Cant hook to me immediately so I can check out the color.

Seriously, is it a stock color somewhere? We''ve been thinking Ford Blue or Miller Welder blue so LogRite blue is defineatly an option.

Paschale · « **Reply #6 on:** September 07, 2004, 10:12:04 pm »

Congrats! It's gotta be tremendously satisfying for you and your brothers to take this thing from drawing board to completion. I'm looking forward to pics of her makin' sawdust!

Bigdogpc · « **Reply #7 on:** September 08, 2004, 12:29:46 am »

Nice! Looks like ya'll did a bang-up job! Well done.

D._Frederick · « **Reply #8 on:** September 08, 2004, 05:51:56 pm »

jpad-,

To answer your question about holding the head while on the rode, On my mill, I have a hinge on the track that folds up against the carraige frame. I bored a hole in the carraige frame horizontal member and tapped it. When I want to move the mill, I position it and then lift the hinge and screw a bolt into the carriage frame, its quick and holds well.

Its apparent that you have spent a lot of time on the design and building it so far. With all the time and money you have spent I wonder why you would go with inflatable tires for the band wheels? In this part of the country we don't see many shop made design-it-yourself mills. In the past 15 years, I have seen 3 of these mills. Two used car tires for wheels, they sawed but to me, after seeing them run, I would not work around them. The blade either whipped side to side or flopped up and down, because of tracking problem, out-of-round tires, or balancing problems. The other mill was built using plywood laminated together and then a wheel cut-out, it was another case that I would not want to be around.

When you see WM or Bake sawmill run with sold steel or a wheel fit with a Vee belt, I don't see why anything else would be used. The band acts as if it was on a track, no whip,no flop.

EZ · « **Reply #9 on:** September 08, 2004, 06:32:45 pm »

Mill looks good, cant wait till its in use. Love your log loader.
When I built my mill I made it all manual, I fugured sooner or later I would modify it. So one thing at a time, the first thing I did was put a motor on the up and down.
I figure the second most useful thing is a drive motor on the locking dog. I have a heck of a time with the bigger logs or cants when they need to be pushed over and clamp in. I'm trying to figure what or how I'm going to do it right now.
Well any ways great job on the mill.
EZ

jpad_mi · « **Reply #10 on:** September 08, 2004, 08:18:05 pm »

D - The hinge and bolt is just the kind of easy and effective idea I was looking for. Thanks. The inflatable tires were choosen based on cost only. I had no idea the factory bandmills used sheaves, and when I priced machined steel bandwheels they were about $750 a pair. I figured I would give the tires a go and if the mill worked well otherwise we could pop for the updgraded wheels.

EZ - I scratched my head for a long time trying to figure a how to make powered clamps and finally gave up. My bros and I will take turns providing the power.

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #11 on:** September 08, 2004, 08:28:17 pm »

Y'all just give up too easy. I showed EZ how we did it. Low cost and more power to also use as a log turner-helper.

EZ · « **Reply #12 on:** September 09, 2004, 03:24:51 am »

I'm still kicking around your idea, FD. Right now I'm trying to figure out if I want to use a hyd drive motor or a 12 volt motor.
EZ

GF · « **Reply #13 on:** September 09, 2004, 07:11:06 am »

EZ
I used all hydraulics on mine, to me its more reliable and less maintenance. Hydraulics require more room for the routing of the hoses, currently in my sawmill I have right at 500' of hydraulic hoses most of them are concealed below the frame pieces in channels.

Kirk_Allen · « **Reply #14 on:** September 09, 2004, 09:32:03 am »

Awsome! Way to go! Looks like it will be another great home-built sawdust eating machine

Have you used any hydraulic fuses or check valves in your lifting hooks. In the event you have a hose break these prevent the unit from slamming back down and possibly breaking things or hurting someone.

Congrats

Looks like you did some fine work!

T_in_SC · « **Reply #15 on:** September 09, 2004, 11:52:14 am »

Great job on the mill. I really like that loader design.

Keep the pics coming!

GF · « **Reply #16 on:** September 09, 2004, 11:54:53 am »

Make sure you get some paint on it before your test cut your first piece of wood, once you cut you will not want to stop.

jpad_mi · « **Reply #17 on:** September 09, 2004, 04:26:38 pm »

Good idea about the check valves. We currently don't have any. Honestly I'm a little fuzzy on the use of a check valve. Where do they go? How does the cylinder ever go down with a check valve in the line?

Speaking of paint, does anybody have experience with Valspar Farm and Implement paint from Tractor Supply Company or Rust-Oleum Industrial Speedy-Dry Acrylic Enamel (3100 system)? Any suggestions on reasonably priced paint that has held up well on a mill would be apreciated. Thanks!

GF - Wow! 500ft of hose. That's a lot of hose! I had to figure out how much oil it takes to fill the hose. 500ft of 1/4inch holds 1.3 gallons. 500ft of 1/2inch holds 5.1gallons!

FeltzE · « **Reply #18 on:** September 09, 2004, 04:57:36 pm »

Kirk, You are refering to "holding valves" they are valves that require the hydraulic pump to over pressure the valve to get fluid to or from the cylinder. When the flow stops the valve is in a holding position requiring that minimum pressure to overcome the valve again. It's kind of like having a bypass valve in line with your system you need to have enough pressure to "bypass " the valve to do your work. A failure of the hose on the pump side results in the work being held in place by the valve .

WM uses a different valve to prevent shock loading the loader by dropping a log on the hydraulic arms. It's a spring loaded valve spring loaded in the open position. If a large shock load is encountered the ball is slapped downstream closing the valve holding that shock away from the valve pac, pump, and down stream hoses. It's not a holding valve.

Eric

trim4u2nv · « **Reply #19 on:** September 09, 2004, 05:58:42 pm »

As a minimum I would use a single line pilot check valve. This check valve only kicks in if the pump fails or a line ruptures.

http://www.brand-hyd.com/poc76/pocrevisiona.pdf

I think northern hydraulics stocks them for around $69.00
Have seen them on ebay also.

EZ · « **Reply #20 on:** September 09, 2004, 06:44:08 pm »

GF,
yes, your right about hyd being more reliable. The thing with a 12 volt would be alittle more simple to do. I want to put the locking dog in the middle of the frame and keep my two manual dogs on the ends. That way if something does happen to the mobil one, I can still finish the job. All the modifications that I've done or am doing I want to still have the manuals. As all of you know, there ain't nothing like breaking down in the middle of a job.
EZ

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #21 on:** September 09, 2004, 06:59:20 pm »

That's why we used both. The electric will clamp. It's on a screw. It COULD be run with a drill, to finish the job. The Hydraulic cylinder can be raised and lowered manually, just to finish the job.

Furby · « **Reply #22 on:** September 13, 2004, 06:43:37 pm »

jpad_mi,
Here's the carriage lock on my mill. I made these from stuff I had laying around, rather then buy them from the manufacture (Don't look at the welds, first time welding. The welds don't hold anything anyways.

)
My mill sits on top of the frame and can jump off the track pretty easy. These locks hold the carriage tight to the track.

Swede · « **Reply #23 on:** September 14, 2004, 02:39:54 am »

Looks like a very nice and low-weight mill.

Think I used too much iron for my loaders, I realy like the idea turning them 90* !
I don´t understand how you move your poles up and down, Mine is sliding up/down in biger tubes, 60x60mm (~2 5/16").

I painted Amerika-Sågen with Hammerite, dark blue, moving parts and safety items red. The rims are white so I have to paint 50 more details white.

I´ll take pictures but have no web camera. All my money is spent in hydraulics and iron right now. Have to use my old Cannon one more year.

Nice work!
Swede.

jpad_mi · « **Reply #24 on:** September 14, 2004, 04:19:37 pm »

Good idea for carriage clamps Furby. Real solid for travelling.

Swede - I've never heard of Hammerite paint??? Do you know the manufacturer? The posts pivot about an axle welded through the bottom of the tube. The axle is set in pillow block bearings. Probably overkill with the bearings but I wanted them to pivot easily; the three are tied together and I had planned them to be manual.

Swede · « **Reply #25 on:** September 15, 2004, 01:23:46 am »

Thank You, Gilman. I have used Hammerite a lot, even rolled low section of my old car with Hammerite.

Need to do it again so the color there is the same as on my saw mill.

jpad_mi.; For me it looks like You turn the posts ACROSS the frame. Haven´t seen that before, but have seen Forestor Jacko turn them down ALONG the frame.

Made a little test with my log turner yesterday. As I said, the spring is too weak. There are two springs holding the hood open on my Scania 55 from 1962. Have to find another old Scania........

Swede.

jpad_mi · « **Reply #26 on:** October 04, 2005, 07:12:37 pm »

Well, it's been over a year since I claimed that my mill was nearing completion. Due to other commitments at home, I didn't have a chance to work on the mill for about ten months. My brother and I were finally able to start working on it again around Labor Day of this year. Yesterday afternoon, we sawed up our first log! A 15" or 16" by 7ft cherry. It was pretty cool to finally see it work. We still have a few things to finish up before tearing it down to paint (I should have listened to you, GF; I want to saw wood more than paint now...).

Thanks again for all of the forum knowledge and advice! I still need to break out the FF Christmas* Contest peas for the celebration feast!

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #27 on:** October 04, 2005, 07:21:37 pm »

Very nice job.

Congrats to you and yer helpers.

PawNature · « **Reply #28 on:** October 04, 2005, 07:29:03 pm »

Had to re read first post I thought you said it raise a big ASH log.

Great Job

Timburr · « **Reply #29 on:** October 04, 2005, 07:32:19 pm »

You've finally made it

Good one

What's it like milling your first log?.....it's bin a while for me. I can hardly remember.

Tim

brdmkr · « **Reply #30 on:** October 04, 2005, 10:13:43 pm »

I envy anyone who can do the kind of construction you have pulled together in your mill. That is an awesome mill

woodbowl · « **Reply #31 on:** October 04, 2005, 10:35:28 pm »

What a good job you have done and a good looking mill to prove it!

What type of feed did you finally settle on? Hydraulic or electric? I'm seeing a cable on the left side. Is that part of it or is it something else?

jpad_mi · « **Reply #32 on:** October 05, 2005, 06:53:55 am »

We ended up going with hydraulic drive, and yes, the cable on the left side is the drive cable. It's anchored to the head assembly and has a couple of wraps around a large flatbelt pulley on the hydraulic motor.

PaPaw - we tested the log loaders with a big ash log, but didn't saw it because we didn't have the head assembly complete. We decided to start small when it came time to cut our maiden log ; the big ash was too intimidating

Swede - did you ever finish your log turner? I'd like to see it and here how it works.

woodbowl · « **Reply #33 on:** October 05, 2005, 09:56:18 am »

Quote from: jpad_mi on October 05, 2005, 06:53:55 am

It's anchored to the head assembly and has a couple of wraps around a large flatbelt pulley on the hydraulic motor.

Sure would like to see a close up shot of the flatbelt pully and wrap, and hydraulic motor set up. Is this motor 6 gpm also?

jpad_mi · « **Reply #34 on:** October 05, 2005, 06:34:16 pm »

The hydraulic motor is mounted at the rear of the trailer frame and the cable runs up to the front where is turns through two idler sheaves. Both loose ends of the cable are anchored to the carriage. Here's a picture of the hydraulic motor and pulley before the cable was installed, I'll snap a couple of better pictures this weekend:

The hydraulic motor is a 23in^3/rev Char-Lynn, and the pulley is roughly 12inch diameter, which is what I could get cheap on eBay. I may end up going with a smaller drive pulley in the future; the gig back speed is a little too fast

woodbowl · « **Reply #35 on:** October 05, 2005, 06:54:01 pm »

Quote from: jpad_mi on October 05, 2005, 06:34:16 pm

the gig back speed is a little too fast

Looking forward to the other pics..............How do you gig back too fast? The faster you get back, the faster you get into the next board.

Minnesota_boy · « **Reply #36 on:** October 05, 2005, 07:42:58 pm »

You know you're giging back too fast when the carriage stops and the log don't.

Swede · « **Reply #37 on:** October 08, 2005, 07:36:42 am »

Quote

Swede - did you ever finish your log turner? I'd like to see it and here how it works.

Yes, I made the turner and it works well for most logs. Took a picture a few days ago turning 4pc. 4" boards. Finally I remembered to take my camera with me.
Takes a week or two before I´ve got the pictures.

Nice job at that mill! I like that dark blue, is it Hammerite? Hope You´ll paint moving parts red now. Same colors as the US flag.

A lesson in Swedish:
Amerika-Såg=An American Sawmill.
En Amerika-Såg= One American Sawmill.
Amerika-Sågen=The American Sawmill.

Swede.

Swede · « **Reply #38 on:** October 08, 2005, 10:56:30 am »

Here is an old picture from my album. Changed the teeth some and it works better now.
The V-shaped thing is pulled/lifted by the cylinder you can see in left corner. The cylinder you see in the middle is pulling a plate with teeth. I have to follow the plate some with the level but two springs let the plate follow the log most of the way around. Look at the hole (110x20mm.) where the cylinder is bolted to the right of picture and You´ll understand. The cylinders stroke is 150 mm. but I can just press or pull the cylinder 20mm in each end of the stroke.
The springs are much stronger now. Took them from a hood on an old Volvo

Can even clamp down to 6"x6" or so before sawing the turner. Then I have to use the manual clamps.

Swede.

jpad_mi · « **Reply #39 on:** October 09, 2005, 08:08:48 am »

Swede,

that turner is an engineering marvel! I have looked at the picture for 5minutes and still can't figure out exactly how the thing works

I guess I'll need to wait a couple of weeks for your new pictures...

The mill hasn't been painted yet; still bare steel. You better check your monitor if it looks blue

The Hammerite paint you recommended doesn't appear to be available in the US. The parent company, ICI, does business in the US so I'll do a little more research to find out if I can get it.

News:

Author Topic: another home built bandmill nearing completion (Read 3273 times)

Kirk_Allen