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Author Topic: Will the bat be our spotted owl?  (Read 1762 times)

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Offline 1270d

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Will the bat be our spotted owl?
« on: April 01, 2015, 06:12:28 pm »
I just read that the Northern Long eared bat has been officially listed endangered.  In this article  http://www.upmatters.com/story/d/story/northern-long-eared-bat-listed-as-threatened-speci/98488/O3-f2CtLVUqrTKkiDe4R5g  it lists a few new regulations to forest management practices.    Hopefully none of our jobs are near bat habitat.

Offline treeslayer2003

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Re: Will the bat be our spotted owl?
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2015, 07:38:13 pm »
heard rumblings about that even here........just what we need, more protected species  ::)

Offline Gary_C

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Re: Will the bat be our spotted owl?
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2015, 07:44:46 pm »
I just read that the Northern Long eared bat has been officially listed endangered. 

You kind of scared me with that statement. The long eared bat has been listed as "threatened." There is a big difference between threatened and endangered. I think the FWS has bowed somewhat to pressure from the forest industries among others and backed off the "endangered" designation that would have restricted many logging activities.

Of course the FWS would not get the backing of the public as unlike owls, the public has little interest in protecting bats. Most people would vote to get rid of them, especially when they invade their homes.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Online coxy

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Re: Will the bat be our spotted owl?
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2015, 08:26:10 pm »
we are going through the same thing here in NY we will have the verdict some time this month   this is bogus take our lively hood away to save a bat

Offline Loghauler86

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Re: Will the bat be our spotted owl?
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2015, 08:28:28 pm »
The Indiana bat around here has become an issue. Not so much with logging(thank goodness) but with land clearing. On some projects, we are only allowed to clear from October 1 to March 31. It is mostly driven by local politics though. When a project is opposed by a town or whomever they pull the bat out to slow things down. As an example we cleared a project along 1-84 a few summers ago. It was a town supported project with some low income housing so the bat never came up. Directly across 84 is a mall project that has been opposed for years, and they somehow have the bat. Same exact species of timber, so it's all politics.

Offline redprospector

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Re: Will the bat be our spotted owl?
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2015, 08:29:19 pm »
Oh, I think that the "feel good, politically correct public" would probably surprise you. Here in New Mexico we have learned that the "public" will get behind just about anything...if it makes them feel good about themselves. We've learned that the public will get behind things like...hmm, let's see...Thistle's, Butterfly's, Weeds of various description, Salamanders, Lizards, Goshawks', certain rodents, and of course the Goshawks favorite meal...The Mexican Spotted Owl.
I'd be willing to bet that the "public" would have no problem getting behind a Long Eared Bat.
Take it from someone who lives in the middle of the "endangered frenzy". If you ever let them get a start, you've already lost.
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Online coxy

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Re: Will the bat be our spotted owl?
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2015, 09:10:30 pm »
there was talk of it a few years back but it was on the back burner till they started the 100-200a clear cuts for the worthless casino that there going to start building

Offline 1270d

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Re: Will the bat be our spotted owl?
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2015, 09:26:48 pm »
The restrictions listed seem to be close to the same as the considerations for hawk nesting sites etc.   

How does one identify a bat roosting tree?   

Gary C, I did mis read and report that.   

Offline 1270d

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Re: Will the bat be our spotted owl?
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2015, 09:28:48 pm »
Do the rules apply the same to private and public lands?

Offline mad murdock

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Re: Will the bat be our spotted owl?
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2015, 09:38:36 pm »
In my opinion, the enviro crowd coupled with vote hungry politicians eager to popularize themselves in public office to the low info masses will not be satisfied until it is near illegal to cut a tree, bore a hole, or even disturb a pebble or grain of gravel in a streambed. In Oregon as we speak they have their hackles up over aerial application of pesticides(including herbicides). There are reps in the state legislature who are trying to introduce bills to ban it in forestry, which would have far reaching effects to all agriculture within our state, and similar pushes will most assuredly attempted in other states. Groups like Beyond Toxics, and Oregon Wild, are pumping these reps full of false information to try and get them to move on these devastating measures to an industry that provides many many family wage jobs and income to many people in our state and other states throughout the PNW. The owner the company I work for has been engaged in many "work sessions" with lawmakers to try and disseminate the truth. These issues are of vital importance to all natural resource based economic endeavors. The truth of what these groups are trying to pull over the people of this country is very appalling and more people need to wake up before it becomes everlastingly too late. 
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Online coxy

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Re: Will the bat be our spotted owl?
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2015, 09:47:44 pm »
I was told that they will let us know some time this month on every thing that they are going to do  if it goes the wrong way just think of how many people will be out of a job        I better stop now errrrrrrr :)

Offline ashes

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Re: Will the bat be our spotted owl?
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2015, 11:38:46 pm »
I live in California...

If they are truly endangered, why are there so many of them!

Offline Straightgrain

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Re: Will the bat be our spotted owl?
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2015, 11:43:00 pm »
Let's not forget the Red Cockaded Woodpeckers and the Desert Tortoises...//s

When a protected or an endangered species is killed by a green energy device such as the wind turbines; the agencies are moving to remove the listed species off the lists like the Bald Eagles @ June 2007.
"We fight for and against not men and things as they are, but for and against the caricatures we make of them". Joseph Schumpeter

Offline treeslayer2003

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Re: Will the bat be our spotted owl?
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2015, 11:52:15 pm »
Let's not forget the Red Cockaded Woodpeckers and the Desert Tortoises...//s

When a protected or an endangered species is killed by a green energy device such as the wind turbines; the agencies are moving to remove the listed species off the lists like the Bald Eagles @ June 2007.
hmp....the dam eagle still costs me jobs.........600' radius around a nest tree. there were 7 eagles across the road from me last winter, they all nest some where.

Offline Brleclaire

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Re: Will the bat be our spotted owl?
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2015, 07:37:25 am »
I think the enviro-political groups will try to use this to stop logging but it won't stop the bats demise. There not getting to root of the problem which is a little known about fungus that lives in the caves where the bats hibernate that is killing them. So even you stop logging when the bats have there babies theres still a high risk of mortality once they go into the caves to hibernate. If you do a web search about white nose syndrome you can see the researchers suggests they have little hope of a increase in the bat population for the foreseeable future. I see this as a lose lose situation for the bats and logging industry.

Offline kwendt

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Re: Will the bat be our spotted owl?
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2015, 08:14:20 am »
I don't know much about threatened/endangered species, and the hardships (ridiculous or valid) placed on the forest industry... But many of you point out the political/public opinion issue.

I'm thinking that better education, grass roots style, for the public would be a good thing. Especially them city dwellers who appear to be making decisions for us farm and forest ppl. I'll speak from my own experience...

When I was in my teens, an unscrupulous family member 'sold' logging rights to my Grandmothers 370 acre, mountainside watershed property. When we came back in the spring, we found skidder trails, woods high graded to death, places clear cut, gouges and mud holes, slash strewn everywhere, hanging, damaged trees left leaning sideways, stream beds crushed by heavy equipment, our own carefully maintained gravel, ditched and culverted 3 mile camp road trashed.

We had never seen logging done, and then we had this happen. For years I thought all logging wrecked the land, destroyed all wildlife habitat, and destroyed all the streams, etc. Now before you all get hot... Lol... ive since educated myself to learn the truth. Yes, there are some fly by night loggers out there. But most times, seems like loggers use common sense, obey the rules, and think ahead toward the next harvest, the next generation. Of course, loggers, foresters, forest product companies all still have to make a living, and equipment overhead is huge. (I'm aware I have simplified things a bit for the sake of brevity. I mean no disrespect. )

The only way to combat political spin I've ever seen work, is common sense education person to person. Seems like hysteria, public opinion, etc.... Is formed for different reasons..... But most folks never bother to find out the real truth or to unlearn stereotypes. All of us need to be better teachers, talk to school kids, neighbors, friends. We need to teach; not some paid school teacher whose hands are tied to approved curriculum. Certainly, looking back, I sure wish I'd had a true forester or logger to talk to back in my teens. Respect is modeled young, rarely taught old. If you think about it, very few adults are willing to learn.

Oh, Um... Send all the bats over to my land, long eared owls too... Bats eat Mosquitos and owls eat rodents. I got plenty of both! And as I can, i talk to all my city friends, quiet like, about the beauty and responsibility of forest; and how to care for it, maintain it, harvest it. They listen.
87 acres abandoned northern Maine farm and forest to reclaim. 20 acres in fields, 55 acre woodlot: maple, spruce, cedar and mixed. Deer, bear, moose, fox, mink, snowshoe and lynx. So far: a 1950 Fergie TO-20, hand tools, and a forge. (And a husband!)

Offline Warped

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Re: Will the bat be our spotted owl?
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2015, 10:33:22 am »
I don't want to see any species go extinct, but the solution isn't emotionally driven politics with an agenda that destroys industry they disagree with.
I take that back, I'd like to see the "do as I say, not as I do" tolerant liberals go extinct.
Good with the rough stuff and rough with the good stuff

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Will the bat be our spotted owl?
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2015, 11:48:31 am »
"Bat trees" are usually located in lowlands, riparian areas, around vernal ponds, etc. They are usually older, mature and dead trees, those with cavities, curled up bark where the bats can find cover under the bark, such as yellow birch etc. We have been leaving such "bat habitat trees" in our timber harvests for some time near areas where bats hibernate for the winter such as the dam areas on the Manistee river system. As stated, they have been listed as threatened, not endangered at this time, which makes for a big difference on the timber management restrictions applied.

http://www.batcon.org/pdfs/ForestMgmtandBats.pdf
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Offline kwendt

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Re: Will the bat be our spotted owl?
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2015, 12:07:09 pm »
"Bat trees" are usually located in lowlands, riparian areas, around vernal ponds, etc. They are usually older, mature and dead trees, those with cavities, curled up bark where the bats can find cover under the bark, such as yellow birch etc. We have been leaving such "bat habitat trees" in our timber harvests for some time near areas where bats hibernate for the winter such as the dam areas on the Manistee river system. As stated, they have been listed as threatened, not endangered at this time, which makes for a big difference on the timber management restrictions applied.

http://www.batcon.org/pdfs/ForestMgmtandBats.pdf

Thanks for that, Ron. And for the link.
87 acres abandoned northern Maine farm and forest to reclaim. 20 acres in fields, 55 acre woodlot: maple, spruce, cedar and mixed. Deer, bear, moose, fox, mink, snowshoe and lynx. So far: a 1950 Fergie TO-20, hand tools, and a forge. (And a husband!)

Offline redprospector

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Re: Will the bat be our spotted owl?
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2015, 01:20:50 pm »
I don't want to see any species go extinct, but the solution isn't emotionally driven politics with an agenda that destroys industry they disagree with.
I take that back, I'd like to see the "do as I say, not as I do" tolerant liberals go extinct.
Haha!
I think that we've done alright without the dinosaurs too.  :D
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.