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Author Topic: Will this work?  (Read 3160 times)

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Offline 101mph

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Will this work?
« on: January 19, 2015, 02:22:49 pm »
Guys,

Please forgive the hand drawn sketch. I hope you can make heads or tails from it.



I have a tree I need to fell and I have limited space for my anchor points. I will be using my Maasdam Rope Puller to do this.

My concern is if it’s OK to anchor and pull on the same tree?

The anchor point on the “felling tree” will be several feet below where I will make my notch and back cut. So I’m thinking that should be pretty solid and it should be able to “tip over” the top half of the tree.

I’m sure there will be some flex in it but I’m hoping not enough to cause a problem. The other two trees will be connected to the main “pulling line” with a snatch block.

The goal here is to get this tree to fall right between these two  “anchor trees”.

Do you think this will work?

Offline Texas Ranger

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Re: Will this work?
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2015, 02:56:34 pm »
Unless it goes side ways.
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Offline mesquite buckeye

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Re: Will this work?
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2015, 03:01:06 pm »
Puts you dead center in the danger zone when the tree starts to move. Don't ask me how I know this. ::)
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Offline beenthere

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Re: Will this work?
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2015, 03:26:07 pm »
Should work as you have it planned.
Have your wedges in the back cut (two would be good) and have your escape route planned.
Don't cut through your hinge wood before applying the tension on your rope puller. All bets are off if you cut through your hinge wood.

And assumption is that you have strong enough rope, anchors, blocks to pull the tree over. Those things we cannot access from your drawing, nor can we tell the size of the tree and how much lean you are trying to overcome.
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Offline 101mph

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Re: Will this work?
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2015, 04:18:39 pm »
For sure beenthere.

I always tension things up before I make my back cut. I don't think I will need a ton of force to get the tree over. It's about 14" diameter where I will make the notch.

I wonder lots of times if I should start the back cut first so I can get the wedges in there before I do the notch.

The tree does have some lean in the opposite direction of where I am pulling and wanting it to fall (side to side lean isn't much).

Would this be a situation to do the back cut first??

Offline Sprucegum

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Re: Will this work?
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2015, 05:13:47 pm »
Doing the back cut last gives you the advantage of all ready being on the back side of the tree when things start to move. I would just make sure the notch is no bigger than necessary and plunge cut for the wedges. Have fun  ;)

Offline beenthere

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Re: Will this work?
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2015, 06:07:18 pm »
I do the backcut first only on 6" diam trees (i.e tall spruce trees that are 6" or less) that have lean the opposite of fall that I want. Then real careful making the notch so the saw doesn't get trapped in the notch cut..

Don't think you will have any surprises from what I hear you sayin....notch about 3-4" deep, backcut to about 6" and place the wedge, put some tension on the rope sling, continue backcut to the hinge wood of at least 1".
Then should have saw out, and go ahead and crank it over.
south central Wisconsin
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Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Will this work?
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2015, 06:18:36 pm »
Using rope is not a good thing. It will stretch or break when you need it the most. Use steel cable. And find a new anchor point to pull from. :)
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Offline cutter88

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Re: Will this work?
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2015, 07:08:41 pm »
I'm sure it would work well for you but If I Tryed that it would be just one huge mess lol
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Offline 101mph

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Re: Will this work?
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2015, 07:35:51 pm »
Using rope is not a good thing. It will stretch or break when you need it the most. Use steel cable. And find a new anchor point to pull from. :)

I was going to use chains for anchoring around the trees. The rope is rated for 6500# and the rope puller only goes to 1500# so I don't think I'll have to worry about breaking the rope.

It's been good so far, and I shouldn't need too much force to get it moving the way it needs to fall.

Offline lopet

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Re: Will this work?
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2015, 07:38:45 pm »
Using rope is not a good thing. It will stretch or break when you need it the most. Use steel cable. And find a new anchor point to pull from. :)

I am with Peter on this one.  My concerns are also when something lets go, that snatch block will be coming towards you like a cannon ball.
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Offline thenorthman

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Re: Will this work?
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2015, 09:18:33 pm »
Done it works good.

Just make sure your anchor point on the tree to be fell isn't going to slip and get in the way.

If you can keep the puller as close to the fall tree as you can, that way its just a reach over and pull rather then walking into the danger zone...

Down side is that unless you have lots of rope the angles can be rather sharp putting more downward pressure than side pressure...

Remember to back it up with wedges, stack em if needed, ropes/cables are all fine and good to make less work smacking wedges, but they have a nasty habit of breaking when you need them, wedges may break but by then they are already stuck in the wood and doing their job.

Also put some tension on the puller before starting any cut, not much, just a little, keeps any sudden tension form possibly snapping your line. And if anything goes funky its less slack you have to make up for in a hurry.
well that didn't work

Offline GAB

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Re: Will this work?
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2015, 10:03:55 am »
A few years back I cut a maple that was leaning towards the neighbor's power lines.
What I did was to start cutting the tree as high as I safely could and at a steep angle.  Went in some and drove in two steel wedges. cut some more and the added some wooden wedges as well as the steel ones and kept cutting and driving the wedges until I had it on the ground, approx. 180 degrees from where it was leaning originally.  I did not notch the tree as it was going into firewood any way.
Not knowing your situation or your intentions for the wood I do not know if this would work for you.  Also my tree was solid.  Good Luck.
Gerald
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Offline beenthere

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Re: Will this work?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2015, 01:26:22 pm »
A few years back I cut a maple that was leaning towards the neighbor's power lines.
What I did was to start cutting the tree as high as I safely could and at a steep angle.  Went in some and drove in two steel wedges. cut some more and the added some wooden wedges as well as the steel ones and kept cutting and driving the wedges until I had it on the ground, approx. 180 degrees from where it was leaning originally.  I did not notch the tree as it was going into firewood any way.
Not knowing your situation or your intentions for the wood I do not know if this would work for you.  Also my tree was solid.  Good Luck.
Gerald

That would be a very "iffy" technique and I'm thinking you were fortunate to get the tree down safely where you wanted it with that method.
1. Steep angle for a backcut isn't ideal for wedges to "lift" the backside.
2.  No hinge to hold the tree to the stump is not good practice.
3.  And no notch for the tree to fall free while the hinge holds the tree for the desired fall direction is the third no-no. 

Just sayin... so others don't get the idea it was a good way to do it. Not intended to diss you on this.
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Offline CX3

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Re: Will this work?
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2015, 04:53:55 pm »
Your idea will work.  The only method to use will be the open face bore.  I would leave more hinge than necessary, especially until it lifts an inch or so, then you might thin the hinge a bit. 

I would not try this scenario on a heavy leaner,  it will only work if the weight is not more than 12 or so feet back lean.  Which in that case you should be able to lift it with wedges. 
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Offline CX3

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Re: Will this work?
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2015, 05:11:24 pm »
For sure beenthere.

I always tension things up before I make my back cut. I don't think I will need a ton of force to get the tree over. It's about 14" diameter where I will make the notch.

I wonder lots of times if I should start the back cut first so I can get the wedges in there before I do the notch.

The tree does have some lean in the opposite direction of where I am pulling and wanting it to fall (side to side lean isn't much).

Would this be a situation to do the back cut first??



If the tree sets back before you get the wedge in, there is nothing wrong with boring the saw in a few inches in the back cut to make room for wedge
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Offline GAB

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Re: Will this work?
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2015, 07:26:17 pm »
beenthere: Thanks for your comments.
Gerald
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Offline redprospector

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Re: Will this work?
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2015, 11:38:36 pm »
Ok, this is my opinion, and that's all it is. But I believe that a forum on the internet is a very bad place to get advice on what will work to fell a tree, by (good) people who have never seen the tree in question. That being said.....
Your rigging will work in theory (if you do everything perfect), it seems a bit elaborate to me. But I'm not looking at the tree in person, so I may be missing something very important.
Why not tie your snatch block to one of the anchor trees for a solid mount, instead of on a rope between the two which will add a lot of stretch to the equation?
 
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Offline 101mph

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Re: Will this work?
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2015, 08:16:02 am »
Why not tie your snatch block to one of the anchor trees for a solid mount, instead of on a rope between the two which will add a lot of stretch to the equation?

I was concerned with the fell tree hanging up on the anchor tree since it is only about 50' away. Even if I were to offset the snatch block with with a long chain to only one anchor point (like in a 90° directional pull). BTW I was planning on using chains to anchor the snatch block.

So I figured why not try two anchor points for the snatch block (to get it centered between the two trees better) and then have the last anchor point for the puller directly on the base of the tree where I'm sawing. I can be right there to crank on the puller without have to walk 50' to get to it. A lot more convenient but a lot more prep work.

As mentioned this is all theory. I still may go with one anchor point and rely on a carefully made notch to direct this tree between the other two (which is the main goal in all of this).

It is a back leaner (towards the cottage of course :-\) so I will definitely be using wedges and a bore cut while I put tension on the rope with the puller.

Offline ohwc

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Re: Will this work?
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2015, 10:26:47 am »
It should.

 Couple things.

Face cut first always. If you do not you run a big risk of losing the tree for several reasons. And possibly killing yourself.

  In order. Tension slightly. Face cut. Tension more to stand tree up. Bore cut leaving a good hinge. Wedge the bore cut from both sides, just snug them up good, be careful to not damage hinge. Use a step cut for the back cut. This is a three step back cut. Bore, wedge, step cut. Then pull it over. Hook your pull point to something besides the tree you are pulling on.