let s discuss Russian vacuum drying chamber

[serg]

loading of an oak 8  capcity of 15 kv  52 -65mm humidity 70%  5-6% 20-22 dayes  of internal pressure(voltage) is not present  computer of management there are no fans are not present having blown natural

[WoodChucker]

Well that was fun, now what do you want to talk about?  

Sorry, don't have a clue as to what you said, but at least you know there's someone out here.  

R.T.

[serg]

 I want to share experience of drying of an oak in vacuum, without heating plates. To learn(find out) the basic criterion of vacuum drying in America, and to compare to mine. Ask, with love I shall answer. It seems to me that interestingly, it is not pleasant to much, a competition.

[serg]

I want that you have understood me. We have refused a computer as frequently there are failures. We dry an oak on an output(exit) of water, 380 litres from a cube. We open a dryer humidity on thickness of 0.5-1 %, on a stack of 1.5 % of a marriage(spoilage) and a withdrawal(waste) is not present. A board of an oak from initial humidity of 70 % äî5-6 % for 20 days, expenses of energy make 340 kw on one meter cubic. Therefore we ask the American colleagues, the computer is necessary whether or not ???Is actual to combine price - quality

[old3dogg]

I use a computer to run my vac kilns.I sat here at home and checked the 3 that I have running.I made adjustments to 2 of the kilns and shut off the 3rd kiln because it was dry.All from the comfort of my living room
I feel that using a computer to run any kiln gives you better control over the drying.

[serg]

It agree that absence pair, gives a marriage(spoilage) internal pressure(voltage) the screw of an oak. Therefore we have lead(carried out) 5 years of experiments and have achieved excellent(different) results. Our technology of drying passes from the beginning and up to the end in a steam shirt which occurs from evaporation of a moisture of an oak, at such drying in pair from an oak all stack dries up in regular intervals. Humidity on length of a board of an oak from the beginning up to the end of 5-6 % At furnish of libraries and studies is higher than 7 % of humidity of an oak we do not use.

[old3dogg]

Im not sure of what you just told me but I can dry 12/4 Red Oak,green from the saw[70%MC] down to 6%MC in 18 days.
I am using hot water platten vacuum kilns.The only down fall is the loading and unloading.When I started my kilns back up I decided to pay my men by the board foot instead of by the hour.I used to have 5 men at the loading station.I now have 2.
They can load 10,000 BFT of 12/4 RO in less than 3 hours.
I had a Mouldrup super steam vac kiln to "play" with for a few months.It worked great for thin wood that was air dried to 30% MC but didnt work with green wood.Thicker wood would honey comb and take forever to dry.I didnt care for the SS vac kiln.
On a side note.I just did a charge of 8/4 Poplar in 5 days.

[serg]

If I badly answer, excuse, repeat a question. From that that I have understood you èìåòå doubts to drying of a thick oak 52ìì? A black oak (water) 65ìì 100 % 35äíåé, a white oak 65ìì 30 days, a nut of 70 % of 25 day of 90 mm up to 5-6 % Width of preparation of 120-250 300 650 mm. On our technology it is possible to load a wood of different thickness, on quality of drying it will not be reflected At technology of drying with plates a thick oak 52-65ìì from initial humidity will not dry, in Russia is exact. Only up to thickness of initial humidity of 30 % the expert of 70 % up to 30 % to dry of 40 mm But a question is necessary on the sun, it for an oak poorly. Our technology of drying in vacuum is based roofing felt on presence pair, movement of air of 0.5-08 meter second on all stack, it creates good conditions of drying. A question, I on a forum can give the reference to sites where our chambers work

[Den Socling]

Hi Serg,

I wanted to start a discussion about your design a couple months ago but I have been very busy. rerednaw and I have had some discussion and, in the end, I had to tell him that that 'it just doesn't add up'. That means, if the conditions are what I'm told, laws of physics say that it won't work. Now, I have to admit to being a law breaker and physicist have tried to tell me that my system won't work. Hogwash! (that means that I certainly do not agree with the physicist). So lets see what I have wrong in my understanding of your system.

Let's start with vacuum. If you please, let's refer to vacuum as chamber pressure. And let's agree on measurement technique and terminology. The pressure transducer must measure 'gauge absolute'. It can't be affected by atmospheric pressure. Can we agree to call one atmosphere 760mm HG? If so, in your vacuum kiln, your vacuum pump reduces chamber pressure from 760mm to what level?

Den

[serg]

Hi Den! Well that we have begun dialogue, rerednaw has helped with it. It is a little history. Grodno Byelorussia takes place to sell the Italian vacuum chamber wde. The Italian technology vacuum dries from initial humidity only 30 %. But Russian want to dry at once an oak from humidity of 70 %. It turns out 110 000 $ costs(stands) Italian on 6 meters cubic and to it(her) to buy thermal on 60 meters cubic to dry an oak îò70-30 % of humidity costs(stands) 140 000 $ total 250 000 $. On my site began to come from America I have learned(found out) about your forum where I try to discuss a theme of vacuum drying, at me to eat than share. Den, your technology of drying differs from Italian, Austrian as you can dry a thick oak. I works absolutely on other technology, that I and try to learn(find out) from the American colleagues. If such is not present, it is ready to discuss mine technologies of drying of an oak in vacuum. Last rigid mode vacuum of a mercury column of 75 mm or 0.09 ÌÏÀ at such pressure water begins to boil at temperature 45.45 C Serg

[Tom]

Here is one of Serg's posts that ended up on the Forum Hat thread.  I figured it was misplaced and belonged down here so I'm copying it here and erasing it up there.   Since I can't put it under Serg's name, it will just have to remain under mine.

From these capacities the excellent(different) vacuum drying chamber for an oak will turn out. By a photo in will not enter about 3-4 meters cubic an oak. I to paint her(it) black color did not begin, have warmed cotton wool of 200 mm. Flanges to make it is possible from óãëà100 mm or to cut out from a sheet of iron thickness of 12-14 mm, has welded a wire on a circle diameter of 6 mm that the vacuum cord 25-25 was not soaked up, a cover to put on a rotary gander. The temperature of air of 50 degrees About that at vacuum 0.09 ìïà (1) boiling of a moisture of an oak will be 45.45 degrees With. Gets warm in the afternoon, we submit cold water at night, pairs passes in droplets and acts in a reception tank. Thus temperature in an oak to measure it is not necessary. If to collect pairs all case then there will be problems with internal pressure(voltage) of an oak, a comb, the screw. The board of an oak thickness of 30 mm from 70 % of humidity up to 5-6 % will dry up çà30 days In such vacuum chambers we dry waste products of meat-packing plants, we receive the best a forage for dogs, www titbit.ru Dries sea kale, garlic for powders, there are no problems.  

[Fla._Deadheader]

Well, ya COULD have translated it.    I've been trying real hard to follow Serg's thoughts. Just a little difficult, but, I'm still trying.

[serg]

Tom, thank for that that have transferred(translated) my message from unit I GOT ME ONE  I GOT ME ONE, I do(make) vacuum drying chambers, hay of such capacities I did not dry, a forage for dogs yes! Look on site WWW. TITBIT.RU In America vacuum drying chambers can dry a forage for 18 hours, 0.5 tons? I think that the vacuum drying chamber the best, perspective! Also I can dry an oak of 850 years lain in water, a black oak, thickness of 65 mm, from 100 % of humidity up to 5-6 % of humidity.

[old3dogg]

Holy cow everyone!Den is back!I thought you was gone forever.Good to hear from old buddy!

[Don_Lewis]

A little hard to follow but 340 kWh per cubic meter is pretty high.

[Den Socling]

Hi Mike,

I never left but the vac kiln business is going crazy. And the conventional and DH controller business is going equally well. The owner of a certain DH kiln manufacturing company   once told a potential customer that they wouldn't want to buy controllers from little PCS because we might be gone 'tomrrow'. haha That's pretty funny.

I can't follow Serg's broken English.

Serg,

Don't try to say too much. Try to get across one point at a time. I can't figure out where one idea ends and another starts.

What is the chamber pressure in your process?

One other thing. It's suppose to be TidBit and not Titbit. What kind of Russian to English translators are you using.   I'll explain in private email.  

Den

[old3dogg]

Hi Den.
I knew that you didnt go away.Just havent heard from you in awhile.
Glad to hear that you are busy.
Im also having trouble trying to figure out what Serg is trying to get across too.

[serg]

Hello, everything, all! Den pressure in the chamber 760 it is pumped out äî75 mm of a mercury column. Temperature of boiling of a moisture of 45 degrees. Alternative drying meat for dogs, cabbage of sea, 70 % initial humidity of an oak of 340 kw, 30 % initial humidity of 140 kw on one meter cubic.    Serg.

[serg]

Once again technologies of drying vacuum. The case of the chamber I warm, I keep heat. Water from a wood starts to leave. Pressure pair which is formed reaches(achieves) to pressure of water in a wood. Balance. In top of the chamber the pipe on which cold water is established acts, pairs forms drops, leaves the chamber. Balance is broken also a wood again allocates pairs, so much how many has left. When the wood will reach(achieve) 30 % of humidity, there is a change of internal pressure(voltage) in a wood. I close cold water, I spend(see off) again powerful pairs, it enables to dry without a marriage(spoilage) of waste products. The maximal temperature of drying 70 C, color of a wood natural, quality thin the best. At drying forages for dogs I do(make) the firm diagram for a wood was not present.Serg.

[stevareno]

Hello all!  
From what I can gather, Sterg is appyling heat (transfer method?)  The moisture within the wood turns to vapor which is condensed and piped out of the chamber.. The balance (difference between the chamber pressure and vapor pressure) is broken because chamber pressure rises as vapor fills the chamber..  The increase in chamber pressure also raises the boiling point which slows drying.. Once the vapor is condensed, chamber pressure is lowered and wood continues to give up moisture in this cyclic fashion until the wood is dry..  The internal pressure in wood changes when wood reaches 30%.. At this point Sterg is turning off the cold water (condensor)..  I think you're suggesting that leaving vapor in the chamber from this point on keeps wood from "spoiling" (cracking, warping, and splitting?)   The temperature never exceeds 70 C which keeps the color of the wood natural..  You also dry dog food with this system but you want to make it clear that you do not dry dog food in the same load as your lumber?

I may be off base here.. Just trying to comprehend

Steve