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Author Topic: hydrogen to run engines  (Read 6163 times)

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Offline Tom L

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hydrogen to run engines
« on: August 27, 2014, 07:58:13 am »
had my wife's cousin over last weekend and this guy was a trip, he has built a container that he powers some tubes inside the container with 12 volt battery that when set up correctly and water is added, he produces hydrogen out of the container. enough to power a 5 hp engine off of a lawnmower, and continually run that engine on basically water.

pretty smart thinking, he plans on upping the scale and trying to run his truck off of the hydrogen produced. and then a generator . his thinking is to generate that 12 volt power, produce hydrogen to run the generator and produce electric from the gen set to power things around the house.
hope it works for him.

he says the technology has been around since the 40's and for some reason no one uses it, or someone in the power chain prevents them from doing this on a broader basis.

Offline Gary_C

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Re: hydrogen to run engines
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2014, 08:18:34 am »
Ka Boom!

 :)
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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: hydrogen to run engines
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2014, 08:35:04 am »
I think the lawnmower technology is along the line of GEET.  It works on small engines, but you have a problem when you get to a bigger scale and when you have a variable load.  Its sort of like the gas vapor thread is on here where a guy converted his motor to run on vapors.  It works much better on lawnmowers. 

The technology to run cars and generators on hydrogen is out there.  The problem is finding a way to produce enough hydrogen cheaply.  I know they do it in Iceland, where they have a bunch of geothermal heat to help the process.  I also know there are methods of doing it with natural gas.  Unfortunately, the economics aren't there for replacing hydrocarbons with hydrogen.  I've also tried to go the route of adding hydrogen to your air mixture to get better gas mileage.  It doesn't work, as not enough can be produced. 

There's lots of technology that's been developed over the years.  Much of it doesn't work.  It's great to think there is a conspiracy of deep pockets that would keep the technology out of other's hands.  But, how feasible is it that all this knowledge was lost and never came to the forefront, either in the US or any other place in the world? 
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Offline sharp edge

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Re: hydrogen to run engines
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2014, 01:39:45 pm »
Right now deep pockets is doing every thing they can think of to put down the greenies. IMO

SE
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Offline Paul_H

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Re: hydrogen to run engines
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2014, 01:48:20 pm »
Hi
Tom,I have a small engine repair shop and would be willing to build an exact copy of your wife's cousin's device if he would allow you to post the full plans and I'm sure others here would build one also also. My thoughts are that the engine would slow and quit as the battery lost charge but am more that willing to give it a try and post the results here.
eg  tregar  meste  på  Tulla, for  ho  var  krulla  i  ulla.

Offline Tom L

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Re: hydrogen to run engines
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2014, 02:34:34 pm »
Hi
Tom,I have a small engine repair shop and would be willing to build an exact copy of your wife's cousin's device if he would allow you to post the full plans and I'm sure others here would build one also also. My thoughts are that the engine would slow and quit as the battery lost charge but am more that willing to give it a try and post the results here.

I don't have a drawing , only what he told me in our conversation. he is planning on charging the battery with an alternator off of the engine , thus making his own fuel as he goes. and keeping the circle intact.

gary C, that is funny, he specifically said if we no longer hear from them , we should assume we know what happened   LOL

Offline beenthere

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Re: hydrogen to run engines
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2014, 02:56:21 pm »
Quote
he is planning on charging the battery with an alternator off of the engine , thus making his own fuel as he goes. and keeping the circle intact.

Sounds like a new invention for perpetual motion.  That will be a real breakthrough.  Just water it.
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Offline Ianab

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Re: hydrogen to run engines
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2014, 03:57:16 pm »
Quote
he says the technology has been around since the 40's and for some reason no one uses it,

Main reason is that it doesn't work.... It's not that you can't make hydrogen with electrolysis, that's easy enough. You can run an engine on hydrogen (like pretty much any flammable gas).

The problem is that it takes more energy to split the water into hydrogen (and oxygen) than you can get back by combining them again. With the efficiency of the average internal combustion engine you might hope to get ~25% of the power back? It pops up again every few years, usually someone looking for investors or selling plans.  ::)

Same issue faces commercial hydrogen powered vehicles. It sounds great on paper because the exhaust gas is water vapour, so much less pollution from the car exhaust. But where you you get the hydrogen from? Make it from Natural gas, or build a new coal fired power station or a Nuke plant? Just creates more pollution (because of efficiency losses in the processes), in some other area.

There is no free lunch...

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Offline Paul_H

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Re: hydrogen to run engines
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2014, 04:05:27 pm »
When I was a kid I had a go-cart and wanted to drive it with an electric motor powered by a battery and charged by a generator hooked to the wheel. One push to get it moving and coast forever :)

I was telling a guy my age about that a little while ago and he wondered why it wouldn't work and even after I explained it he was still insistent so I offered him the parts for free if he would build it and bring it by when he was done.  :D
eg  tregar  meste  på  Tulla, for  ho  var  krulla  i  ulla.

Offline Jeff

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Re: hydrogen to run engines
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2014, 04:56:39 pm »
This is going to be a very crude way of saying this, but I think it is the best way to describe how this won't work.

  Is there a single creature on this earth, that maintains life, by simply, and only, eating it's own excrement? That is the biological equivalent of this mechanical question.
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Offline sharp edge

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Re: hydrogen to run engines
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2014, 06:44:31 pm »
To make hydrogen is easy... sneak past Canada go to the artic circle... where their lots of heavy
 wind... make wind farms... make hydrogen cells... then sneak them back here. 8) 8) 8)  I think a hyd. cell is
about the same thing as  batteries.

SE

P.s. We don't own Canada yet, so we have to sneak.
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Offline Compensation

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Re: hydrogen to run engines
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2014, 07:12:10 pm »
I have made these things, actually quite a few. They are neat to play with but take alot of juice to run. It is neat to stick the tube in water and light the bubbles all the way till the displacement lets your fireball into the tube itself and blows the top off the generator. I just always thought about my poor alternator the whole time so I disconnected it. If you use the same principal in a open bucket, you can remove rust from one piece of steel to a sacrificial piece.
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Offline Brucer

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Re: hydrogen to run engines
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2014, 12:48:33 am »
TANSTAAFL.

... or, as Ian explains, the inefficiencies at each step will stop the cycle. Your wife's cousin needs to learn about the first law of thermodynamics.

As for producing hydrogen from water, it's no big secret. I did it as a kid. Cut a penny in half (they were made of copper in those days); solder each half to a wire to make an electrode; connect the wire to a model railroad transformer; make a solution of water with a bit of baking soda (to make it conductive); fill a couple of tubes with the solution (I used metal tubes that fancy cigars came in); invert the tubes in a jar of the solution; stick one electrode up into the base of each tube; turn on the transformer. Be sure it's a DC transformer!! Or use a 12 volt battery.

One tube will fill with hydrogen, the other with oxygen. The solution in the tubes gets driven out as they fill with gas. The hydrogen tube fills first.

Be very careful with they hydrogen. I once saw a guy in the emergency room with his forearm looking like a piece of charred meat. He'd used a grinder on a pipe in an industrial plant, and some of the residue in the pipe had reacted to half fill it with hydrogen.



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Offline Delawhere Jack

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Re: hydrogen to run engines
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2014, 01:53:43 pm »
When I was a kid I had a go-cart and wanted to drive it with an electric motor powered by a battery and charged by a generator hooked to the wheel. One push to get it moving and coast forever :)

I was telling a guy my age about that a little while ago and he wondered why it wouldn't work and even after I explained it he was still insistent so I offered him the parts for free if he would build it and bring it by when he was done.  :D

As a kid I drew up plans for a boat, powered by something like a shower head pointing out the back. The water came from a pipe that ran up from the bottom of the boat, forced up by the displacement of the boat ..... :-\
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Offline Delawhere Jack

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Re: hydrogen to run engines
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2014, 01:56:50 pm »
Not saying that any of you would, but......

If you ever decide to make your own hydrogen in an Erlenmeyer flask, using H2S04 and zinc.......
And you put a thistle tube and a stopper in said flash.......

DO NOT USE A MATCH TO SEE IF IT'S REALLY HYDROGEN COMING OUT OF THE THISTLE TUBE!!!!  ::)

Don't ask me how I know this.......
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Offline Southside logger

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Re: hydrogen to run engines
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2014, 05:13:46 pm »
Not saying that any of you would, but......

If you ever decide to make your own hydrogen in an Erlenmeyer flask, using H2S04 and zinc.......
And you put a thistle tube and a stopper in said flash.......

DO NOT USE A MATCH TO SEE IF IT'S REALLY HYDROGEN COMING OUT OF THE THISTLE TUBE!!!!  ::)

Don't ask me how I know this.......


Now that is funny  :D :D :D  Reminds me of the time in high school chemistry class when we were supposed to be measuring the temp at which salt water boils or something along those lines and I had "discovered" a formula for homemade nitroglycerin, however I had not discovered the dangers of such a potion.  Well rather than boiling the salt water I was boiling the "solution", which subsequently turned into a mushroom cloud of sorts over our lab station.  :o  Never saw the chemistry teacher run so fast.... and never did I cover my tracks so fast.
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Online dgdrls

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Re: hydrogen to run engines
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2014, 07:47:40 pm »
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/technology/efficient_dynamics/phase_2/clean_energy/bmw_hydrogen_7.html

BMW Model 7

Germans have been using hydrogen since the 1920's as a fuel source,

DGDrls

Offline Ianab

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Re: hydrogen to run engines
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2014, 07:52:07 pm »
Running an engine on hydrogen has some interesting technical issues, but none of them break the laws of physics.

The problem is, where do you get the hydrogen from?
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Offline Gary_C

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Re: hydrogen to run engines
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2014, 08:42:10 pm »

The problem is, where do you get the hydrogen from?

You make it by obtaining some gasoline and using it in an engine generator to produce electricity that you use to make hydrogen from water and then use the hydrogen to run the BMW. Whew, that's hard work.

Or you could simplify and just use the gasoline to run the BMW and save a lot of conversion losses.  ::)
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Offline Jeff

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Re: hydrogen to run engines
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2014, 09:03:55 pm »
I would think the ultimate answer would be to have solar that produced hydrogen. I know its possible, but no idea if it is scalable.
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