The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:




TimberKing Sawmills




Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Forest Products Industry Insurance


Norwood Industries Inc.


Sawmill & Woodlot Magazine



Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades


Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Woodshax Outdoor Vending Solutions

FARMA

Forestry Forum Tool Box

Author Topic: Urban Lumber  (Read 5164 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Grandedog

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Laytonville
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Left Coast Supplies
Urban Lumber
« on: August 06, 2014, 05:37:38 pm »
     Howdy,
   Probably been a while since there was mill dust in this part of Portland.
Regards
Gregg

Gregg Grande
Left Coast Supplies LLC
1615B South Main Street  Willits, CA 95490
888-995-7307  Ph 707-602-0141                   Fax 707-602-0134  Cell 707-354-3212
E-Mail  gregg@leftcoastsupplies.com   www.leftcoastsupplies.com

Offline Dave Shepard

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 10165
  • Age: 2012
  • Location: Alford Massachusetts
  • Gender: Male
  • Geometrically proportional
    • My homepage
Re: Urban Lumber
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2014, 08:09:39 pm »
Great video! Keep those trees out of the landfill. Their "arborist" was a bit sketchy starting the saw with the tip in the dirt. Must be good at sharpening. :D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Offline Ron Scott

  • Forester
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7698
  • Age: 81
  • Location: Cadillac, MI
  • Gender: Male
    • Ron Scotts Web
Re: Urban Lumber
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2014, 08:46:49 pm »
Well done!
~Ron

Offline Silvanus

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Western Michigan
  • Gender: Male
Re: Urban Lumber
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2014, 09:17:40 am »
Cool stuff!
“There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot.”  -AL

Online Jeff

  • Lead Administrator and Founder
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 44814
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Harrison MI
  • Gender: Male
  • Proverbs 13:20
    • THEE Forestry Forum
Re: Urban Lumber
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2014, 09:36:40 am »
That was great!
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Bottle Washer.

Offline Roxie

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4981
  • Age: 64
  • Location: Lincoln University PA
  • Gender: Female
  • I'm your huckleberry
Re: Urban Lumber
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2014, 09:52:59 am »
Very uplifting!  Thank you for sharing that Grandedog! 
Save a farm today or starve tomorrow.

Offline scsmith42

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 4370
  • Age: 57
  • Location: New Hill, NC
  • Gender: Male
  • He who dies with the most toys... WINS!!!
Re: Urban Lumber
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2014, 11:35:49 am »
Great vid Gregg!
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Offline Seaman

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 950
  • Age: 54
  • Location: Old Fort N.C
  • Gender: Male
  • Still learning as hard as I can go.
    • Uniquewoodcuts.com
Re: Urban Lumber
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2014, 01:28:34 pm »
That was cool, two mills and a KILT!
Frank
Lucas dedicated slabber
Woodmizer LT40HD
John Deere 5310 W/ FEL
Semper Fi

Offline pine

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 607
  • Location: PNW
Re: Urban Lumber
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2014, 02:00:28 pm »
Thanks. Nice link. Whose LT 50 did not see?

Offline brendonv

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 814
  • Location: Seymour Connecticut
  • Gender: Male
  • Arborist
    • www.VorioTree.com
Re: Urban Lumber
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2014, 03:01:28 pm »
All my wood comes from the urban forest. My house and garage is covered with it, shed will be and a timber frame garage. I pull good logs off my jobs and bring them where they will be best used.  Ill even use the bark!

Just milled this wack o logs on sunday. Prob four-five more loads on this job.

 

 
 


"Trees live a secret life only revealed to those that climb them"

www.VorioTree.com

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Vorio-Tree-Experts-LLC/598083593556636

Offline mikeb1079

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 829
  • Age: 39
  • Location: madison, wi
  • Gender: Male
Re: Urban Lumber
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2014, 10:44:49 pm »
that vid was very similar to the "urban lumber demo days" that they had in madison a few weeks back.  very cool stuff, glad to see the idea is catching on.  brendonv i wish more tree service folks were like you.  kind of a shame to see so much usable timber being cut up or chipped.
that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

Offline thecfarm

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 25158
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Chesterville,Maine
  • Gender: Male
  • If I don't do it,it don't get done
Re: Urban Lumber
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2014, 05:06:49 am »
Good to see the trees being used.
brendonv,nice picture off you topping a tree.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline Chet

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7463
  • Age: 63
  • Location: Land of da YOOPERS Iron River, MI
  • Gender: Male
Re: Urban Lumber
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2014, 08:17:08 am »
brendonv
What kind of loader ya got on yer trailer?
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the arborist

Offline brendonv

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 814
  • Location: Seymour Connecticut
  • Gender: Male
  • Arborist
    • www.VorioTree.com
Re: Urban Lumber
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2014, 03:07:01 pm »
Farma 51d. I bought it ussssssed.  One of the baileys units.
"Trees live a secret life only revealed to those that climb them"

www.VorioTree.com

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Vorio-Tree-Experts-LLC/598083593556636

Offline JohnM

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1087
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Eastern Maine
  • Gender: Male
  • Sometimes its best to punt and play field position
Re: Urban Lumber
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2014, 07:37:36 pm »
That was great, Gregg!  The guys in the suits on the slabber looked some sharp. :D  Someone put some hours in producing that video, very well done and a great message.
Lucas 830 w/ slabber; Kubota L3710; Wallenstein logging winch; Split-fire splitter; Stihl 036; Jonsered 2150

Offline woodworker9

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 396
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Northern Illinois
  • Gender: Male
    • Elite Concrete Raising Co.
Re: Urban Lumber
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2014, 06:09:33 pm »
Great video and presentation!  I'd love to get my hands on some of those slabs to make furniture out of.
03' LT40HD25 Kohler hydraulic w/ accuset
MS 441, MS 290, New Holland L185

Offline Stephen1

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1136
  • Age: 61
  • Location: S. Ontario Canada
  • Gender: Male
  • Where there is a will, there is a way!
    • muskoka Sawmill
Re: Urban Lumber
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2014, 11:21:52 pm »
That was great Video, so great to see the movement coming alive. There is so much urban lumber out there to use
LT40HD, 742b Bobcat, Sthil v170,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Offline nomad

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1886
  • Age: 62
  • Location: Jacksonville, Fl
  • Gender: Male
  • Member
    • Bill's Mill Portable Sawmill Service
Re: Urban Lumber
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2014, 05:43:58 pm »
     Today I contacted our local urban forester about these logs being wasted. 

     "I'm curious if ************ makes use of the logs cut from the city's land.  Do they just end up in landfills? Or is ************ following the example of many cities around the country and making use of the wood from these logs?

    I don't believe that healthy trees should be cut down without a good reason.  But the fact is that many hundreds of tons of trees are cut in this city every year.  Some of those would make good saw logs.  If it isn't already being done, the city is missing out on a way to cut costs substantially and possibly even turn a profit."

Here is his response.

"Thank you for contacting us about this issue. The city of ************ actually has an ordinance that prohibits us from removing any tree on the right of way that is alive and healthy. Most of the trees we remove are already dead, or in decline. Almost all have some major defect such as large hollow areas. Very few would be suitable for lumber.
Currently neither the city or our contractors have the type of equipment that would be needed to handle  lumber logs. The trees are always cut into sections  that can be more easily handled. Unfortunately, given the small numbers of trees that would fall into this catagory the economics of it just wouldn't work.
Currently the logs are taken to recycling sites where they are ground into mulch."

     I'm thinking this attitude has a lot of impact on why this idea isn't being pursued here.  And incidentally, it's the largest city by land area in the lower 48.  I'm annoyed. :snowball:
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
WoodMizer LT50HDD51-WR
Lucas 1030 w/slabbing attachment

Offline Tom the Sawyer

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 752
  • Age: 66
  • Location: Eudora, KS
  • Gender: Male
  • Converting your logs to lumber at my home or yours
    • Tom the Sawyer Portable Sawmill Service
Re: Urban Lumber
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2014, 06:30:57 pm »
Nomad,

Frustrating isn't it.  I, too, have butted heads with municipal employees who dismiss the value of urban timber.  Fortunately, not all of them do.  I have worked with half a dozen communities who have realized the value of their timber, either directly from the value of the lumber, or indirectly from the reduction of costs associated with landfill tipping fees or grinding costs.  We just have to keep plugging away.  Make contact with municipal foresters, state and community foresters, parks managers, etc.  Very soon, they may not have a choice...

There is potentially a very positive movement on the horizon.  The Tree Care Industry Association has proposed some extremely progressive ANSI standards for dealing with urban timber.  If adopted, those who follow the ANSI standards (significant economic factors influencing conformity) will have to consider the highest and best potential use for their urban trees.  Thinking "sawlog" will much more desirable than thinking "chips". 

The proposed standard is called ANSI Standard 300, Chapter 11 Urban and Community Timber, or something like that.  I was able to read it on-line last month since there was a public comment period which ended 8/25/14.  Unfortunately, the link no longer works since the comment period has closed but I expect that it will be available once the standard is adopted.  The way I read it, it will enable major steps forward in the effort to assess, value, acquire and provide urban logs for conversion to lumber. 

Keep your fingers crossed,
07 Timberking B-20, Custom-made log arch, 20' trailer w/ log loading arch, F350 SD flatbed dump.  Princeton piggy-back forklift.  Bobcat S250, Stihl 025C 16" and a Husqvarna 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer.
If you call and my wife says "He's sawin logs", I ain't snorin'.

Offline WIwoodworker

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
  • Location: Milwaukee, WI
    • Milwaukee Woodworks
Re: Urban Lumber
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2014, 05:38:16 pm »
Why not just offer to pay tree services for the trees they cut down? They're still urban trees. They just come from a different side of the sidewalk. Many are still being cut into firewood and mulch or being wasted. You'll have better luck with people who are trying to make money and reduce their labor costs.
Peterson 9" WPF

Offline IcePick

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • Age: 38
  • Location: SE Wisconsin
  • Gender: Male
  • tree worker/logger
Re: Urban Lumber
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2014, 04:59:30 pm »
Ever since I got into logging part-time, my boss from the tree service I work at has implemented quite the urban lumber program.  We hire a guy who works for We-Energies that has a bandsaw to mill our logs. I believe he charges 25 cents a bdft. 

We have stacks of dimensional lumber and some pretty cool slabs that have been built into shelves, mantles, tables...

At our office, which is a side by side building, we have even opened up an urban wood lab that is open to the public to see our stuff.  I believe my boss is turning it into a type of co-op for local wood artisans to display their stuff as well.

As far as firewood, we still have our customers, and we will continue our large operation of firewood sales, and we have customers who order mulch every year, so we will continue to tub grind the crap into mulch.

It's nice not to turn EVERYTHING into firewood or chips though.
Trying to support myself and a family working with trees since 1998.

Offline Ron Wenrich

  • Forester
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13283
  • Age: 69
  • Location: Jonestown, PA
  • Gender: Male
Re: Urban Lumber
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2014, 07:43:17 am »
A little late to the discussion, but I'll give you my experience with urban logs.  I did consulting for an outfit that was going to convert urban logs to lumber.  Their problems came from a total lack of knowledge of mills, logs, and product.  Their process was going to be to take urban logs for free.  The alternative was that most of these logs were going to the dump.  Tipping fees are very high, so the savings were put into the arborist's pocket.  The practice quickly filled the yard with logs of poor quality and form.  It was explained to me that you couldn't charge for logs, as then you were classified as a dump.  More red tape. 

The biggest problem was tramp metal.  All logs were scanned, but the problem persisted.  It destroyed saws.  The second problem was log size.  Most of the suppliers didn't have equipment big enough to pick up logs of any length.  They ended up with a bunch of logs under 8'.  That ends up costing more to produce.

That's not to say that there isn't a way of using urban logs.  You just have to be a little smarter on how to do it.  You might have to charge a handling or processing fee.  Note:  it's not a tipping fee.  You should also limit who you get logs from.  A reliable source of logs will take care of a lot of problem like length and metal. 

You need to have some really good markets for the products.  You'll need several markets.  Some logs are best being made into either mulch or firewood.  You have to keep them out of your lumber supply.  Some logs aren't suited for grade lumber.  Mill those into industrial quality.  Sometimes the rapid growth of urban trees takes away from the appearance of the lumber.

Markets are out there in the urban areas.  The bigger the city, the more the opportunity.  Prices are pretty decent, but so are expenses.  Good labor is hard to find, expensive and has to be trained.  Rent or ownership of land is very high.   Equipment must be compact, productive and versatile.  It also has to be big enough to handle heavy weights, as many logs are big and heavy.  There is good opportunity in secondary processing. 

One of the problems that developed is there is a large east coast mulch maker that has their eye on urban logs in big city areas.  They don't like competition, and they have deep pockets.  They're starting to do urban logging.  I was working with another guy last year on developing a working relationship involving milling the good logs, and letting them have the waste and logs that wouldn't make lumber.  They liked the idea, but didn't like to share. 

I think there is good opportunity for urban lumber, but it has to be approached from a different aspect.  The video is going for a high end market aspect.  Not every stick is usable for lumber, and not every piece of lumber is usable as flooring, tables or the like.  It's a nice idea to plant in someone's head, but far from reality. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline Carson-saws

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 396
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Michigan
  • Gender: Male
Re: Urban Lumber
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2016, 09:59:49 pm »
Ron Wenrich....interesting perspective.
Let the Forest be salvation long before it needs to be