Used LT40 Pictures...should I buy?

[Paschale]

Hi everyone,

I posted a message a couple of weeks ago about a used LT40 for sale.  I was able to check it out and took some pictures, so I thought I'd post them in a new thread, and see what all of you think.  I can get this for $1500, and everyone said I should jump at it.  Here's the pictures, and I'd sure appreciate a little more imput from people more experience than I am with refurbishing used Woodmizers.  It's had 252 hours on it, and I believe it's from the 1980's.  It was last run in 1996.  The rail appears straight, but as you'll see in the pictures, it's very rusty!  Any opinions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

[Paschale]

Here's a couple more pictures.  

[Paschale]

A couple more...








Thanks for your opinions ahead of time!

[shopteacher]

It appears you would have some serious derusting to do, but here we can rent a compressor & sandblaster for 130.00 a day. Black beauty media is about 8.00 per 100Lb.  So for about 200.00 all the rust should be gone and already for a new paint job.  As to the rest of the machine you will have to go over it piece by piece and see what's salavageable and what needs replaced or take to WM for a platium servicing.  I think for a couple thousand and some work you could have yourself a practically new machine. Does it run?  If it last run in 96 it might take some doing to get it running, if at all. However, it could kick right over and run like a champ.  Sure would be easier than building one from scratch.
 Well for what it worth, that's my take on it.    Good luck!

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Gotta agree with the Teech. Having built one, I would not hesitate buying that one. Just buying a few parts would cost $1500.00. Place an order for a quart of "Rust Reaper" and that thing will loosen up just fine. I would bet "MM" that rebuilds WM's would take it in a heart beat. You can add features as you go, like hydraulics and stuff, once you get it running and sawing.

 The 2 blade wheels cost $400.00 alone, not to mention the frame. That would run 2 grand to build.

[slowzuki]

You could get out some emery cloth and phosphoric acid and have that blade cleaned up in a few hours

Seriously I think it could be repaired fairly easy, time consuming maybe but worth it!

[sparks]

5th picture you show a power feed control unit. That style unit has been replaced with a solid state one. Don't recognize the engine. Would be a fun project to restore to like new. If nothing works, 2 grand seems kind of high.

[raycon]

I'd buy it -- I think the worse case scenario is you turn around and resell it for what you paid for it.

[D._Frederick]

Pas-,

If it is just surface rust, sand blasting should get it ready for paint. I would get a welding slag chipping hammer and see how much metal is left on the tubing that makes up the frame, if you can punch through, it may not be such a bargain.

WM must not have used a very high quality of paint to have it completely gone. Is the mill close to salt water?

[Paschale]

Thanks for all the replies already.  Since I don't have a ton of experience restoring old equipment, it's good to hear that it's not going to be as daunting as it appears!  My dad's an old hand with fixing up old equipment, and is really good with small engines, so I think he'll have fun working to get the engine up and running.  Everything else appears to just be rust.  And to answer D._Fred, I've got a friend who's going to be able to check out the mill--I'll have him test the frame.  That's a good suggestion.  And it's not near salt water--it's in the U.P. of Michigan, but being outside for about ten years didn't do it any favors!

I did notice that the cast iron wheels are rusty too, and they're not moving at all.  I suppose that's a fairly easy fix too--a little work, but I'm sure I'd be able to get it up and running somehow.

I'll keep you all posted, and thanks!

[raycon]

For what its worth my mill had the same amount of surface rust in the log clamp area,log bunks,and on the guide rail. Its thick wall tubing it's going to be solid.
Luckily my head had been shielded from the weather and all I did to put it in service was lube everything,put air in the tires, replace the belts and milled a few red oaks...good luck.
If you're trailering it home check the tires/wheel bearings.

[MM]

I will agree with sparks. 2k does seem kinda high. But, I would buy it for the shear fact that it's all there. The engine on it is a kohler. I think a 14 hp. I looks to have  some added features. The engine matcheds the vintage of mill. A mill of that era that runs would be worth around 5k. In my expereice, I would buy a new motor. messing with the old one is time consuming and parts for those can be hard to find. time to time. Like sparks mentioned. the power feed unit would need repaced. I think around $400 for that. There is not many costly parts on that mill and it would be worth it.

[Paschale]

Hmm...sounds like $2000 is high--I can get it for $1500.  Does it seem worth it for that?  This is a family member who owns this--my great uncle, who's quite elderly, and I want to give them a fair price, since they need the money.  

Glad to hear in Ray's message that he had a similar experience.   Everyone seems to make it sound like this is definitely redeemable and worth pursuing.  I'll keep you all posted on what I decide!

Dan

[Haytrader]

I was gettin ready to ask if you generally give what someone asks for somthing then the "uncle" part came in the picture.
That makes it tough. On one hand you need to buy it as cheap as you can to allow for unforseen repairs and one the other hand, you stated it is relation and they need the $$.

For some people, fixin and repairin are relaxing. Then there are guys like me. I have enough things break down and have to fix em so I sure as heck aren't gonna buy somthin that says what those pictures say.

My first mill was a manual electric demo model and cost $3400. All it needed was turned on.....

[Swede]

Sand blasting.....ehhhhhhhhhh! Be careful with that stuff. You get sand inside evrything. I think some different grinders and.......do you say phneumatic nail hammer?....is good tools for removing rust and old painting. You need access to a 5,5HP air compressor for them tools.
I´ve seen some guys been unlucky after blasting machines and vehicles without taking everything apart first. The sand goes in everywhere and when you think it´s gone there is double up left where you can´t see it. Everything will wear out in a short time.

Think You can buy that mill and rebuild it if You have the time and think it´s fun. Try to spend some $$$ in modern tecnology, change all moving parts and that saw mill will be much better than in the -80:s.  Try to find a stronger engine by the time.
Good Luck!

Swede.

PS. If You just want the sawing job, don´t buy it!  

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Swede gives excellent advice on Sand Blasting. We cleaned up a WM with a wire cup wheel on a 4" hand held grinder. Dusty, but, air blows away the rust dust and a wet solvent rag will wipe it clean enough for the primer to stick very well.

 If ya can't buy the thing, Let me know where you are and I will make arrangements to have it delivered here. Someday, we are going to have our own Deep South Sawing Show, and we can demo it and sell it.

[AtLast]

 

[Furby]

HEY, WAIT JUST ONE DANG MINUTE!!!!
I'm closer, but I'll trade ya for the Home Mizer.  

[Fla._Deadheader]

Furby, you don't NEED a sawmill. You got that apprenticeship course going in Plumbing. Can't sawmill UNDER the house.    I can use it to saw them dinky logs. Had a guy call today and wanted us to saw some limbs.  It gets better.
He will deliver them to the mill, 160 miles away  

 And Y'all are complainin ya cain't get sawing jobs.  

[Furby]

 



I'd rather be sawmilling, under the house then the plumbing!  

[woodhaven]

You really need to listen to what the guys are saying about the sand blasting!!!!!  If all those bearings even see a sand blaster they will start going bad. And its almost impossible to cover or wrap them tight enough to pervent it from happening. I know it is a lot quicker that way but you will pay for it.

[Paschale]

haymaker said:

My first mill was a manual electric demo model and cost $3400. All it needed was turned on.....

I've been thinking about this side of it too:  if I end up ultimately putting a total of around 3K-5K for this saw to get it up and running (including the price of the saw),  are there brand new sawmills for that price?  I know woodmizers are highly praised, but I've got a friend who has a manual mill (can't remember the brand, maybe lumber mate) and he's very happy with his.  Is an old woodmizer that's fixed up just as good/better than some of the other brands that are brand new?  I suppose this might be opening a can of worms, but I figure it's worth pursuing before I decide to put the money, time and energy into restoring this LT40.  

Any thoughts?

Thanks again for all the replies!

[Tom]

The going price for manual, ground-mounted,  "push mills" is 5-7grand now.  You won't get the same mill as you are being offered in the LT40 for that price.

The LT40 you are looking at is not the mill that the LT40 is today.  But, it has a lot of potential for upgrades. You may not want to upgrade it unless you get into some heavy production.  It certainly has the capabilities, once refurbished, to equal an LT27, which is on sale now for $11,000.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  My foot-in-mouth comment is, We built ours so the boards, cants, beams, whatever would be OFF the ground when you needed to remove them from the mill. I will NOT bend over and chance a severe back strain or blown disc, removing wood from the ground. I much prefer putting the log off the ground and handling the wood at a comfortable height. I can always lower it easier than picking it up.

    You didn't mention where you are, so, I'm guessing my offer is not being considered.

 The power feed in that pic is the same as the one on Tom's mill we are re-conditioning. It works, but, needs some lube and a new belt. I plan on making it a remote station power feed, like we did on our homey. I ain't about to chase that sawhead all day.It is a very simple device and cheap to re-build. No need to get a $300.00 circuit board thingy.

  Just clean up the mill and paint it, and lube it, and I will bet it will work just fine. Paint isn't necessary either, if you don't want to.

 OK, fire away.

[Engineer]

Paschale,

After I looked at your pictures again and read all the replies, I'd have to say I agree - you should buy the mill.  My mill was almost as bad, rust wise, but at least it worked.  I brought it to WM and they put $1600 worth of parts and labor into it.  New solid state control, new blade guides, new belts, new chains, some other misc parts I can't remember, and it works fine.  I didn't bother repainting mine yet - maybe next summer when I have time.

[ronwood]

Fla._Deadheader

Just curious about your remote station power feed. Did you design it or buy an of the self unit?

Paschale,

I think I would buy it. My concern is how good is the engine. With the price of steel I don't think you could buy the metal for $1500 to build one.

Just my thoughts.
Ron

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Hi Ron. We designed the remote station, but, did buy the electric motor controller off ebay. That was $100.00.

 Our station runs the feed and the up-down, and the blade guide, and the clamp and log stops. We control the hydraulics from the remote station.

 We have a vacuum cleaner hose that we ran the wires through to power the controls. It drags the ground as we saw, but, sawdust cushions the grass and we can shovel and rake the grass and you will not see any damage.

 I would definitely put this on the mill Paschale is looking at.

 Since the price increases, you will never buy the steel to build that same mill, for the price he can buy the whole mill.

[D._Frederick]

About the sand blasting, I would agree that sand can work into the bearings. It has the same effect as pressure washing with 3000 psi, it fills every thing up.

I guess if I bought it, I would take all the sealed bearing off reguardless of how I was going to clean the rust off. The grease in them has hardened by this time and will result in the ball cages being destroyed. You just has well replace them now and save future problems.

[slowzuki]

You wouldn't have pic of your blade guide and how it is actuated would ya?
Ken

 the blade guide,

[sawinmontana]

We have a manual push mill, ground level, that we bought new for around $4500.  I really like to saw lumber. But not on our mill for the reason Fla_d said.  

Why don't you bring that woodmiser up here to Montana I
'll give you $1500 for it and throw in a used push mill!!! Ha, Ha, just a thought.

If you do want to saw more than an occasional board and value your back buy the wood miser!!

[Fla._Deadheader]

Slow, here is the only pic I can find. I know I have better ones. This is a wiper motor-gearbox that I bought from Surplus Center for $40.00. I cut the shaft and drilled it for a roll pin. I cut a skateboard wheel down, so the hub is engaged by the roll pin to turn it. It is a simple permanent magnet 12V DC motor. A double pole double throw momentary switch, cross wired, is all it takes to go in or out. The arm is solid 1" square steel. I machined the guide arm wheels on my lathe and pressed ball bearings into the hub.

[Haytrader]

 

If one does not like to bend over to saw with thier mill on the ground, one could simply block it up to the desired height.

[slowzuki]

FD, do you find the 1" stiff enough?  Do you have stops to prevent running off the end?

Thanks!  I've hit this area in my planning.  I ordered Cooks guides instead of making my own, I'm sure I could do a good job but I want it to work asap!

Ken

[KILROY]

Is that sawmill in your driveway yet? If not why not?
If you need to, will your uncle let you make payments on it? That might free up some cash to get it running.

I had an 1986 LT30 very similar to that saw. The one in the picture is just a little older. If you buy the saw, try to get everything that came with it. Is there a sharpener with it? Back then most saws were sold with sharpeners. If there is a winch on it, see if the turner is there also. Is the handle for the cutting head around? It was used if the motor went out, you could still saw by cranking the cutting head up or down.  You will need the bar to raise and lower the jacks. The two metal ramps to roll the log on should be there also.

There is not very much that can go wrong with that saw. All of the bearings are replacable. Normal maintenance. Toss that motor if it does not work and get a different one or go electric. The only rust that you need to be concerned with to saw is where the cutting head slides up and down. Clean that area up or it will ruin the pads. Even they are replacable. I think the new ones are a plastic. The rest of the rust will wear off from use, unless you want to paint it then clean it up better.  The chains are probably a little stiff so soak them or replace. From your pictures I can not tell for sure but I think the double chain is still on that saw. That lever under the drive motor is an overdrive when the cutting head is going backwards. Just raise it up when going back. The two center log supports flip down, you might want to weld them stationary.  
Do a few minor repairs to that saw  and you will be cutting fairly quickly.  After it is cleaned up you can always sell it.
Just to get it sawing again should not cost very much money.
Good luck.

[Fla._Deadheader]

   Trader    I'm trying to get him started out right  

 Kilroy's advice is egg zacktly what I would do, but, I like add-ons.

 My offer is still good  

[sawinmontana]

If one blocks the mill up then one needs a ladder to reach the sawhead raising crank.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 

[KILROY]

Paschale, after you get your new saw, an upgrade that needs to be done is the blade tensioner. Take the spring assembly off and replace it with the hydraulic tensioner. It is not something that needs to be done right away, but it is a better system. I think that saw takes a narrow battery. You might want to reconfigure the battery box if there is room.
An older saw like this would be good to mount the resaw attachment to for a portable resaw.
That saw is best run with two people. When sawing by yourself , you will do a lot of walking around it.
Then again, take your saw on a vacation to florida and swing by Fla_D's  sawmill refurbishing business. There is no telling what you might come home with.

[Fla._Deadheader]

Slow, our blade guide moves a LOT farther than a WM. I don't have a problem that the guide moves a little when it travels in and out. 1" should be fine. Keeping it running true is where your problems might arise. I don't sweat the small stuff.

 All the way out, it hits the back cover of the idler wheel. All the way in, it runs off one bearing and the pressure to the drive wheel is lost. There was some "intricate" designing going on when we built the movable guide.    Took about 15 minutes.  

 Like Tom keeps saying, "A sawmill is used to take a log apart. It is NOT a Planer".  

[Haytrader]

sawinmontana,

One might consider putting a pulley (for the cable to ride in) on the corner of ones mill frame and moving the winch (crank) down where one could reach it.

 

This shows how my winch is mounted.

[Furby]

Paschale,
If you are thinking about looking around a little, then drop me an IM and we will set something up so you can play with mine and have a chat. I'm about 10 mins. from you.
I have a box of blades that should be here by Monday.
My mill is an oldie, but it will give you an idea of what's what.

[C_Miller]

If'n it was me I'd get it and roll it to the nearest WM shop.

   Fixing it up is not as bad as restoring a Model T F.O.R.D.
 set of open end wrenches, crescent hammer and a couple of screw drivers is all you need. If you're good all you need is a Leatherman Multi-tool. so don't let that stop you.

   As far as cosmetic  paint job, wire brush and a can of that British primer that mixes with the rust is a good start then your favorite color after that.

 ....and to loosen all the rusty won't move parts "Rust Reaper".
I put a little RR on my Cheerios and I don't have any problems moving all day.

C

[handsaw07]

Paschale,  I wouldn't  hesitate a moment to purchase that mill. I believe you have found a good deal on a mill.  Goodluck

[slowzuki]

I like that quote! I think I'll remember while I'm working on mine

Ken

 Like Tom keeps saying, "A sawmill is used to take a log apart. It is NOT a Planer".  

[Paschale]

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the replies!  Sorry it's been awhile since I wrote back, but I was in Colorado for a little over a week--a sort of working vacation, with as much vacation as I could squeeze in!  It gave me plenty of time to think some more about the sawmill, and yes, I decided to buy it, and I'm completely stoked about it!  My dad and I are planning a trip to the U.P. to retrieve it later this summer, when we can get our schedule to work out.  First thing is to get it in my dad's barn, and out of the elements!

I really appreciate all of the suggestions about repairing it, as well as upgrade suggestions.  I know I'll be tapping into the brain trust of the forestry forum as soon as I can get my hands dirty working on this thing.  All of your comments have encouraged me that this was definitely a good purchase, and a very redeemable project.  I think my dad's as equally stoked too, so it should be a fun project to do with him.  I'll be sure to keep you all posted on repair developments, and thanks again!

Hmm...it just dawned on me:  I got myself a woodmizer!     Giddy up!!!!

Dan M.

[Bibbyman]

Welcome to the Orange Club!

[Bibbyman]

Hey Pascbale,   

It's getting late in the summer, what's the update on the mill?

[Furby]

He's been to busy seeing the world to mess with that little old mill!

[Paschale]

Hey there Bibbyman,

Thanks for the message and question.  Furby's right...I've had a busy summer, but fun as all get out.  I hadn't really planned on having a summer like this, and I gotta admit, the WM took the backseat.  I started out in Thailand, then headed to Colorado, followed by a trip to the U.P.  I was home for a couple of weeks, then spent a few weeks in Santa Cruz, followed up by hiking in Yosemite.  Came home, and left for northern Michigan for a few days, and now I'm finally back down where I belong.  All in all, I think I've been gone about seven weeks this summer, and it's been GREAT!    I ate my way across the world, too...so now it's diet time.    I'm hoping to be able to work on the WM early this fall.  It's been draggin' way too long.  But I came home to a bunch of projects that need my attention here at home, which is really a drag.  I'll get it done though...eventually.  

[sparks]

Don't forget to call in and get a customer number set up. I doubt there is a serial number on the mill but give us what info you have and we'll try to find it in our system and transfer the mill into your name. If you call me I can take care of it for you. Let me know what year it is and I can get you the manuals for the mill.    Thanks and welcome to the Wood-Mizer family.

[Paschale]

Hey thanks for the reply, Sparks.  I actually bought this about a year ago, and already called the good folks over at WM and have a customer number as well as the manuals.  In fact, I just received my Woodmizer Way today in the mail, and saw an article about our very own pro-sawyer Mary, Bibbyman's better half.     It's at my folks place, about an hour and a half away, so working on it can't ever be spur of the moment.  I hope to spend some Saturdays this fall working on it, so we'll see how she comes along.

Dan