Author Topic: Electric Motors (Read 2883 times)

Timber_Zeus · « **on:** February 14, 2002, 09:26:01 am »

I am researching what kind of mill to look for. I talked to the power cooperative. There is no 3 phase available from the lines that run by my farm. :-/

I mentioned that I wanted to know if it was possible to run a 25 hp electic motor on a sawmill.

He said I could do two things: (1) Get a roto-phase to convert 2 phase to 3 phase or (2) Just buy a 25 hp electic motor that is single phase and has soft start. His recommendation was to look into option two.

Anyone try this?

Bibbyman · « **Reply #1 on:** February 14, 2002, 12:27:12 pm »

We just went through option 1 by installing a Ronk rotary phase converter to run our new Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25-RA mill with 25hp 3ph motor. I'll get some time this evening to put together some notes and post them on the process.

As for a 25hp 1ph, I'd don't think there is such a thing and if there was, it would be about the size of a 55gal drum. I'd think. :-/

Don P · « **Reply #2 on:** February 14, 2002, 03:13:33 pm »

I talked to our motor shop about doing the same only 40 horse. He reasoned that he could wind me one but it would probably be cheaper to get a roto phase and then be able to run other equipment with it too. I'm still gassin and dreaming.

J_T · « **Reply #3 on:** February 14, 2002, 09:11:49 pm »

just helped a guy wire a 3ph gang saw we built a 50hp rotery converter. We got the plans off the internet . For now it is working real good.

Don P · « **Reply #4 on:** February 15, 2002, 05:01:40 am »

Post a link if you got it, this is interesting stuff to me anyway, was squinting at Bibbyman's pics last night trying to figure it all out. I'm running the blower on a homemade static converter but want to go to the next level without busting the bank. The 3ph motors turn up at auctions dirt cheap cause no one can use em around here and the big boys won't risk a used one. I scorched one learning and was out $10

Don P · « **Reply #5 on:** February 16, 2002, 02:27:50 pm »

J_T,
You just paid for my computer I think

.
You kept me up way past my bedtime last nite reading the links you sent, Thanks. I now am the proud owner of a 10 HP rotary phase converter. Gotta go visit my junk buddy and try to find a couple of 50's. This is too cool!

http://www.qsl.net/k3pgp/Notebook/3phase/3phconv.htm

http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/ph-conv/ph-conv.html

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Phase+Converters+and+VFD&number=3&DaysPrune=365&SUBMIT=Go

The pic below is the Idler just "breadboarded" together, there are no safeties on anything other than the breaker on the single phase. A ground was run from the motor frame to panel ground. The lines from the 2 pole breaker are hooked to the black wires. The silver capacitors , oil filled Run type, are providing a bump to the missing 3rd or neutral phase (I'm robbing from only 1 line here, the balance would be better if I did both and fed into the neutral phase) But you can run without these although the power factor isn't as good.
The black capacitors are electrolytic Start capacitors and can only be run for seconds, just to get the motor started.Connecting a pushbutton to the 2 red wires with blue taped ends would make the circuit and provide the pulse that gets the motor turning, I just touched them together for a couple of seconds till the idler wound up. I hooked the blower to the 3 white wires (a magnetic starter should go there) and the system wanted to balance...this was all just eyeballed and fast, it ran within 5 volts and 2 amps on my meter...

Gordon · « **Reply #6 on:** February 16, 2002, 02:51:16 pm »

Don, I'm laughing like crazy right now. I was looking at your picture and the wife looked over my shoulder. She said---now get this---oh taking pictures of your custom creations and posting them on the internet now huh, your going to get someone killed posting stuff like that.

Well on the serious side of things it looks safe to me.

Gordon

Timber_Zeus · « **Reply #7 on:** February 16, 2002, 03:46:09 pm »

Well the roto phase converter looks like a significant investment. I am sure worth it if you're sawing quite a bit. There is also good info on the roto phase posted under the discussion titled Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25-RA First impressions. I am sorta thinking a used gas mill will do me fine just to get started. Got to have something to look forward to.

Don P · « **Reply #8 on:** February 16, 2002, 06:06:09 pm »

Gordon,
You got a keeper, I couldn't decide whether it resembled Red Green or Tim Allen more.

I'll look into it for mine, nothing like just flicking a switch and having solid even power.

J_T · « **Reply #9 on:** February 16, 2002, 07:31:19 pm »

Don P I think i am the junk buddy of this aera. At present i have in stock minum 100 tons of goodies and one sawmill.Old central units have lots of good parts like capasitors,stepdown transformers contactors ect .I got a car wash loads of air cylnders all one needs is a good aminautoin.

Don P · « **Reply #10 on:** February 17, 2002, 04:59:43 am »

When I come home with that special tan that don't come from a booth a grunting truck and grease everywhere she just taps her toe and says "You've been over to Jack's again haven't you?"

Bibbyman · « **Reply #11 on:** February 17, 2002, 04:40:21 pm »

Don P, that setup looks JUST like the one I had installed at a cost of about $3,500.00 - except it was speced by engineers from two companies, installed by a professional electrician and don’t have the guts hanging out.

Don P · « **Reply #12 on:** February 17, 2002, 07:25:42 pm »

J_T...you the man

Guess I'll paint it Red and Green

Bud Man · « **Reply #13 on:** February 17, 2002, 08:47:00 pm »

Makes me wonder what kind of profit margin Wood-Mizer's gonna make on the mill I just ordered !! J.T. and Don P what kind of work load you guys got in front of ya for the next couple weeks

Bibbyman · « **Reply #14 on:** February 18, 2002, 05:24:25 am »

Well, Bud Man,

The way I look at it… When I'm in a café or restaurant and the waiter or waitress gives me prompt, courteous attention, takes my order correctly, brings the food in good order and condition, sees that my coffee cup is topped off or tie glass is refilled, ask if everything is to my liking and do I need anything else, and bids you a good day, I don't mind leaving a tip.

Being my third WM and second new one, I knew pretty much what to expect but still I was impressed. First the paint coverage is total and uniform. The welds are clean and smooth and generally all the way around - thus sealing off a place that may start corrosion. Every piece of hardware is locked in some way - by lock washer, lock nut, LockTite or by being a thread forming screw. All hardware is plated or otherwise corrosion resistant. Some of the little details that were new to this mill were that all frame tube ends were sealed to keep those pesky birds out. And so on and on.

You may say that these are cosmetic things and really don't matter but I suggest they do because it speaks of the overall quality and workmanship that went into building the mill.

This mill may cost me a little more than brand X, Y or Z with the same features and production rate - I don't know because I didn't compare prices of other mills. I've seen them however. And having 30+ years of mechanical engineering design and manufacturing background, I can't look at a piece of equipment and not think of the design, materials that went into it, or the manufacturing process. In my opinion, Wood-Mizer has already crossed the finish line when it comes to quality of design, manufacture and support.

When you get the new Wood-Mizer mill, go over it and inspect it well and then run it a couple thousand hours. I'll suspect you'll agree it was the best money you ever spent.

That's my tip for the day.

Bud Man · « **Reply #15 on:** February 18, 2002, 09:17:51 am »

Bibbyman == I'm just like the waitress -- I'll take any tip I can get and appreciate them all. Never was big on X , Y . Z brands. === I'm going to take a copy of all these posts with me to Fulton, Mo. to pick up my mill .== Might stop by and pick up a Bibbyman or a Mary to help me inspect it !!===I've seen 6 brands of mills (including Wood-Mizer at Little Rock show) I too agree the details speak for themselves.===That concoction J T and Don P collaborated on reminded me of that Andy Griffith TV series show of about 10 or 15 years ago where they built a rocket space ship in their garage used to salvage previous moon shots from the moon.=== I certainly admire their capabilities but I also know my limitations.!!==== As to a couple thousand logged hours, that will probably take several years. ===Hope I can catch on quicker than that !!== Thanks Again for all the Help !!

jwood · « **Reply #16 on:** February 18, 2002, 04:38:45 pm »

DonP from the looks of that wiring job in your pic it looks as if you might be one of them electrical type engineeeers..I know a man in Orlando that runs his entire shop off of home made converters ..he has mills , lathes , welders..he buys all 3phase equip. an builds a phase converter for it ..He's not an engineer or professional electrician ..Hes been doing it like that for years ..no problems..Some like to build ..Some like to buy.. i already have the caps an motors ..think i'll see if i can stick one together... have a good evening

jwood · « **Reply #17 on:** February 18, 2002, 04:43:18 pm »

DonP... from the looks of that wiring job in your pic it looks as if you might be one of them electrical type engineeeers..I know a man in Orlando that runs his entire shop off of home made converters ..he has mills , lathes , welders..he buys all 3phase equip. and builds a phase converter for it ..He's not an engineer or professional electrician ..He's been doing it like that for years ..no problems..Some like to build ..Some like to buy.. I already have the caps an motors ..think I'll see if I can stick one together... have a good evening

J_T · « **Reply #18 on:** February 18, 2002, 06:58:04 pm »

Bud Man not doing much just trying to move 50 ton scrap metal so i can put my sawmii together.And turn a F700 Ford into a log truck but always willing to stop and help a fellow sawmill man or sawmill woman.

Bud Man · « **Reply #19 on:** February 18, 2002, 08:36:31 pm »

J T ==I'm envious, How much would you two charge me just to watch?? I'm bound to learn something by accident ==Just afraid you might start wrapping wireing around me and my hair might stand on end !!!

News:

Author Topic: Electric Motors (Read 2883 times)