taxes

[Ron Wenrich]

That's what the income tax is supposed to be.  But, they have put so many loopholes in it that the wealthy don't really have to pay their share, even though they can afford it.  The poor can't afford it, so thy don't pay.  Guess that leaves the middle class to foot the bill.

[Stan]

There seems to be some confusion here. A regressive tax is one where the lower income bracket pays a higher proportion of their money, and example is sales tax.
Our current income tax is a progressive tax, the more you make the higher the percentage of your income you pay.
It is a good thing rich folks can hide some of their money, the top 3 percent are paying half of all income tax revenue.
Then there is the payroll tax, how much do you think Michael Jordon pays in medicare taxes? Could he ever get sick enough to spend that much?

[Tom]

Well, If the medical charges are "what the market will bare" and he was told "that's it chap";  I'll bet he would break the bank.

It's important that we consider the other side of the coin too.  If we had a Socialist State (such as some seem to want)  you wouldn't have to worry about taxes.  The Government would own it all and just dole it out to you as the bureaucrats felt you deserved.  (Man!  Talk about a level playing field) :-/ :-/

[Kedwards]

"You are a smart person Kedwards"


If you asked my wife she would tell you she married "Rain Man"   Oh well..

[Kedwards]

Stan,

Our tax system in CONCEPT is a progressive system, but in reality it tends to be regressive especially since the AMT tends to hit middle class people right in the kisser. A REGRESSIVE tax is one where lower income individuals pay a higher percentage of their gross income as you stated. The ROR of most wealthy don't exceed the same percent of less than what you or I pay( i am assuming you aren't in the 3% group) All I know is since the dividend tax break went into effect many of the ultra wealthy are paying a lot less in total income tax.

Tom,
Who wants a Socialist state? If so called socialist states don't work at all they shouldn't be in existence right? Case in point is Norway. Just an observation not an endorsement. Has anyone tallyed up the average taxes an indivual pasy in comparison to a socialist state to compare a cost to benefits? I mean include all taxes, gas, sales, local, real estate, payroll etc etc..

[Tom]

Those who favor a bigger Government, more welfare and ask "what can the Government do for me today" are the ones that I would catagorize as wishing for a Socialist State.  

I don't care if they work somewhere else or not. My concerns, needs and wants are based on Liberty and Freedom.  Governments, in general, tend to "take" not "give".  Someone who "wants more" and uses the Government as a tool "to take it from someone else",  has a Socialist mentality.  I hear them everyday.

[rebocardo]

The reason I like a VAT is because it equals everything out. Bill Gates and I would pay the same tax on our burgers at a fast food. One man, one burger, one vote.

When I buy a brand new truck, say 1978 Ford  for $1000 I would get taxed at the same rate he would if he bought one too. If he decided to buy a $100,000+ SUV then he gets taxed 100x more. If he wanted to buy a $500 Yugo he gets to pay 1/2 as much.

I think a flat percentage tax where everyone is equal is important. If it works out where it is too crushing on the poorest people, then there is always food stamps and vouchers.

[Stan]

Well Kedwards, the folks who are in the class envy business would like you to believe that I pay more of my income in tax than those in the highest bracket, but it just ain't so. I'm in the 10% bracket and generally have enough deductions to avoid about half the taxes I'd pay at that rate. If the top 3% of the taxpayers are paying half of all the tax revenue, I'd say they were paying more than their share. Meanwhile those who receive a refund on no taxes at all are getting something they don't deserve.

[Ron Wenrich]

If I'm not mistaken, the VAT is added every step of the way.  So, the more hands that a product goes through, the more VAT.  That doesn't bode well for forest products, where we have a lot of middle men.  

Stan, you're going to love that alternative minimum tax that was set up years ago for people who had too many deductions.  Seems the middle class has caught up to those levels and will be hit with those minimum taxes in the years ahead.  That's one of the ways the growing deficit will be met.  Tax rates drop, just not yours.

[Kedwards]

Stan, If you make 10 million a year(as an example) and you pay 15% federal tax on that money because it is earned income that is 1,500,000 dollars in tax. How many normal americans would it take to generate that kind of revenue? If you use 4500 as a federal tax norm than 333 Americans in the "average" tax bracket have to pay taxes in order to make up the same dollar volume. If it is earned income it should be taxed regardless of the amount. If the person that makes 10 million a year does "avoidance" and reduces the effective burden to say 10% than an additional 111 US citizens at the average income level have to make up the delat to generate the reduced tax burden. The top 3% pay the most taxes because the earn more money than 80% of the population by significant amounts. Why would say that paying a known  percentage of what you earned is paying more than your fair share? I think its paying your fair share period. BTW getting a refund is sign you overpaid and gave a free loan to the governement. This who pay no taxes are generally the elderly and make less than poverty level. Most people in this country have no retirement and live on SS only. I have known several elderly not related to me that live like this and we give them food because they don't have enough money to cover the total drug costs for medications and food electricity etc..Its just the decent thing to do.

[rebocardo]

In many countries it is only the end product that gets taxed at the consumer level. Of course yuo have little details like what to tax exports etc. The car gets taxed, not the steel that goes into the engine.

[Stan]

Ron, with a fixed income limited to a maximum of 3% adjustment annually, it'll be a little while before I run into the Alternative Minimum Tax. I did have to avoid it the last 4 or 5 years I worked though, turned down all overtime.  
Jedwards, I only got $36 back this year so I figure I'm payin' real close to the right amount.