Research Process

[Timber_Zeus]

Hello, sure glad I've found this forum.  I have been searching on the internet and calling/emailing a few sawmill mfgr's for information.  I am new to this industry/hobby.

I've been reading the information in this forum and it has been extremely insightfull and I am looking forward to reading more posts in the near future.  Where else should I look for information?

1.  Should I subscribe to Sawmill & Woodlot?  Is this the best magazine in the industry?

2.  I have information from Wood-Mizer and Mobile Dimension on their new models.  Also see many used mills for sale by these mfgr's.  Where can I find some published information on the advantages/disadvantages of circular vs bandsaw mills.  Older models vs new models?  

I will probably be buying used.  I live on an old, nonworking farm in far northern Wisconsin.  I work a fulltime desk job during the week, so this would be a hobby.  I have about 60 acres of wooded land in the back.  Logging also drives the local economy and stumpage is plentiful.  I am interested in sawmilling for two reasons:  (1) I have my own hobby woodworking shop and also plan to build new outbuildings, fences, (2) A local, professional woodworking shop would have me cut lumber for him.  I have an old tractor with loader and independent 540 PTO so I am sorta curious about PTO driven mills.  But electric seems to make the most sense, so I plan on talking to the local power company about their fees for 3 Phase.  Thanks!  

[Bibbyman]

Welcome to the Forum

If you can get 3ph service without selling the farm and don't plan to do mobile sawmilling,  then that's the way to go.  We just put in a new Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 last month and are quite pleased. (We have had two other Wood-Mizer mills since 94.)

You can also check with Wood-Mizer on used mills - they usually have a few and are now brokering used mills for people that are trading up. Last fall they had three used 3ph electric Super mills.  They don't completely rebuild the traded in mills but they do replace any parts that need replacing and service and make any adjustments required.

Sawmill and Woodlot is a great magazine - go for it.  In addition,  go to some forest industry shows and sign up for some of the trade publications.  Your State Forestry Department will have a boatload of info too.

I guess there are a few PTO driven mills out there but no band or "swing blade" that I know of.  I think mostly smaller circle mills.  You can run a band mill with as little as 8hp engine (but 25 or more is much better) so then why run it on a tractor?

[Ron Wenrich]

You have to figure out what you want to produce, and how much.  Larger circular mills will out produce the smaller bandmills.  But, you will get better yield on the bandmills due to their thinner kerf.  

If you are looking to be portable, then bandmills and swing mills are probably the best route.  

Electric prices can eat you up.  In our area, they have a standard monthly fee, plus a usage fee.  We found it to be cost effective to put in our own generator.  Before that, we run with a 671 Detroit.  It was cheaper in the long run.

[Don P]

I am running a PTO circle (hobby only) and though it works I'm not sure I would do it that way again with only 1 tractor. I batch logs through and when in sawing mode don't have a slab or log mover. 1 mis-staged log can eat up alot of time and Wheaties by hand. I'm still trying to find time to get the old Sattelite into the millshed for power...and a heated breakroom w/deer spots . If you haven't been to the sawmill exchange hit the links button at the top of the page and check em out.

[Frank_Pender]

  Welcome home, Timber_Zeus.  I have only been around here a couple, three months or so myself.  I have had a ball learning all kinds of things about you folks in the East.  I have two Mobile Dimension Mills myself.  I would not trade them for any band mill on the market.   My sole intent when I purchased the first mill was to cut dimensional lumber from Douglas Fir here in the West, Oregon.  I reside in Dallas, which is about 20 miles West of Salem.   I have a 70 acre Timber Tree Farm. What I would suggest is for you to decide what sorts of lumber you are  wanting to produce to help you decide the type of mill you want.  the MD mill brings back to you a four sided board which eliminates any edging and additional handling on your part.  I cut about 800 bdft today in 4 hours and that is stickering all of the lumber as it came off of the mill.  The best of luck in your venture.  If you have any questions abut the MD Mill feel free to e-mail me direct or post your questions.  I will be more that happy to try and help you in your quest.

[Timber_Zeus]

Thank you all for responding!  It will be difficult for me to decide what to do.  

For my own purposes around the farm, a low end/labor intenstive small mill will work fine.   But my first large potential customer does custom millwork and cabinetry. He expects to be done building his new shop by next fall.  This a second shop for him and his business is very established and financially sound. So far he has recommended an electric wood mizer.  Problem is, I don't plan to make much money at this and I hesitate to spend a bunch for something I won't use for my own purposes around the farm.  I like to keep things casual so I hate to ask questions like how much/what kind/what will you pay me.  

I will continue to browse this forum and the ads on saw mill exchange.  I have to get a good idea of what the various levels of equipment cost up front.  

One idea I have is to buy a nice machine and sometimes let the other guy run it for a fee. Does anyone take this approach? I would think liability would be a huge problem.  

[Frank_Pender]

  You are correct in the liability and then you have the repare and upkeep to look out for on top of everything else, like blade replacements on the bands and tension as well as the sharp teeth for the circle mills.  For me that would be a no, no.  A regular Mobile Dimension runs about $23,000 new I believe, but you have a fine piece of equipment that will last for years and years.  Again the first question is what is it you want to cut and how productive do you want to be for income, for your costs above and beyond your costs of operations.

[Bibbyman]

Partnerships, like marriages,  work out sometimes.  That would be a great way to justify a more productive mill and keep your investment at the level of a basic mill.  I'd personally be hesitant to turn my mill over to someone that didn't have a financial stake in it.

You talk about the "cost up front" for equipment.  Also think of the total cost of the mill as the first cost minus the recovery on resale.  Sometime in the next 5-10 years you'll want to buy a new mill or get out of the business. You may save a thousand on the front end just to lose it on the backend.   We just sold our two Wood-Mizer mills in December and January.  On our 94 Wood-Mizer LT40 manual mill,  we recovered over 2/3s of the original price and the 96 Wood-Mizer Super HD we recovered 80%. Generally,  Wood-Mizers do better than this on resale.  Had the economy been better and I had advertised nationally instead of locally,  and been any time other than the dead of winter with Christmas and taxes looming, I have no doubts we would have done better.  But we have our new mill in place before the price increases in new mills and interest rates and are ready for the spring thaw.

What to charge?  A good way to start is to go around to the other mills in your area and introduce yourself and be up front with what you are planning and ask them what they are charging.  They may well lead you to markets that they can't service that will fit your planned operation well.

[mometal77]

Just a question how hard is it to take a 127 electric mill apart? Does the track have to be split and gunnage be put on one side or do i have to take it apart piece by piece.  This electric mill i bought i sprayed all the nuts and wasnt impressed by all the fine threaded bolts. Does mobile include them in the deal when buying a new one?  Not bad for a 3000 mill with a big dewalt rip saw.  Thanks for the help.
bob

[DanG]

Bob, don't start rippin' that thing apart till you talk to the folks at the factory.  You should be able to get  a manual from them that will tell you all you need to know.  I'd advise you, but have never laid eyes on an electric MD, so what I tell you may not be correct. 

[mometal77]

Thanks dan,
Its just really weird.  There is rollers all around and a gear so the thing will go up and down the track.. I think the only way to take it off would be to take the track apart and block both sides of the track and lift the thing off.  There is really no way to un bolt the rollers and lift it right off.. What is the 1877 number for the factory i believe it is ron right?  Thanks for the help i cannot believe i got one.  He had it for 7500 and went down and down.  Thank god his next door neighbor has a few cranes and a construction company. I also ran into an older gentleman with a md 127 vw gas with even a dryer set up will have pics later.  Trying to get him to join the forum. 
bob
deming,wa

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Not being critical here, well maybe a lil, WHY do you want to take it apart ??

  The guy I would talk to is, Sawmill John. He's a member here, and worked for MD for a lotta years. Them MD's are a very simple machine.

  Try some Rust Reaper. It gets the bolts and nuts in working order pretty quickly. PB Blaster is our heavy duty rust breaker down here in Rustyville 

[Gabby]

1. Sawmill & Woodlot is a great mag.
2. Electric here (NY) would be cost prohibitive as amoung other things the power company would charge a commercial rate.
3. Mill- Research, research, research. How many hours per week will you be operating your mill? Availability of help? Need hydraulics? I just purchased  a new LumberMate 2000 (under Norwood industries on your search  engine) and am very pleased for MY needs. In the end remember your buying a mill NOT the paint on the mill!
Good luck and have fun.

[mometal77]

Fla,
Rust Reaper  never heard of it will have to check the local store on my way back down there.  There is a few things i didnt notice like dan mentioned spray everything.  Reason why i was asking on the video i got it showed one man doing everything with a 127md and i thought it would be easy .  I think there is a lot more too it and to take one apart you need a second hand.
Gabby
I have never heard of the magazine will have to do a search ty bunches.  As for hrs operating it i have much to do.  I first have to straighten the sections or weld up a new one.  All in one piece instead of sections like md does.  They are made light for easy transportation i think.  Like the md video shows.  Many decisions still sir.  Me and my old man where looking at a set up on the md with hydraulics /Photo_7211.jpg he said he might be able to do it.  Will have to ask a friend that does that for a living.  How much did you buy your dandy of a mill? thanks for all the help guys..
bob

[Tom]

.....is a sponser of the Forestry and Logging board.  Mike P is the owner and developer. 
He has made quite a few contributions to and for the support of the forum including the promotion of contests and the supply of prizes.   
He makes a good product.

[Ernie]

Welcome to the forum

My neighbour has an old Peterson with a hydraulic motor drive run from the PTO of a small tractor.

He hasn't used it yet so I have no idea how effective it is but when he gets out of jail after his dope growing sentence, I'll no doubt get to see it in action and post my assessment.

[mometal77]

Hey guys well i keep going back to the mill and harvesting old growth cedar and fir that was left under the mill some nice 2x4 2x6 some 4x12s even some equipment.. behind the mill planner 18inch and a ripper ect.. Would it be a good idea to snag them ?  Also taking down all the aluminum sheets on the roof and looking at as much lumber of that age i can muster.. Thanks for the input..
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/goober077/my_photos
bottom of sawmill folder.
bob