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Author Topic: Central Boiler 6048 installation.  (Read 13112 times)

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Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: Central Boiler 6048 installation.
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2014, 05:45:55 pm »
The Central has 3/4" and 1 1/4" tappings. These fittings are in the 3/4" tappings.

Pete, that was my recollection as well, although I have no recollection of Bernuli. :D
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Offline albirk

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Re: Central Boiler 6048 installation.
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2014, 04:45:36 am »
Dave you are correct 3/4" pipe thread = 1" pex I have 150' of 1" thero pex from the stove to the house the water is being pushed by a taco 009 pump once in the house I built a manifold out of 3/4" tees and ball valves to move the water three different ways (my house was 1000 sq' added on 1500 sq' plus 32x38 garage) so I have 3 furnaces and 2 water heaters the 1" pex heats it all 73 in the house 75 in the garage plus all the hot water you want

Offline MNBobcat

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Re: Central Boiler 6048 installation.
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2014, 11:01:02 pm »
One of the mistakes a lot of people make is they run everything inside the house in series.  So imagine you invest in 1 1/4" pex because you want a high rate of flow and the high rate of flow allows you to pull more BTUs from the boiler.  Then you run your  pex runs to the heat exchanger in your furnace where it gets reduced to most likely below 3/4".  You've just killed most of the benefit from running the 1 1/4 pex.  You did get some benefit with less head on the system but your rate of flow isn't what you would expect.

What I did was ran 1 1/4" from my boiler to my house.  It transitions to 1 1/4" copper in the house and it makes a loop and goes back out to the boiler.  So my entire loop is 1 1/4" with only four 90 degree fittings to form the loop in the house.  I've lost virtually no rate of flow at all.  Then on one side of that 1 1/4" loop I have a number of closely spaced Tees (basically a 1 1/4" manifold) and I have a separate loop running to my furnace and another loop running to my garage and another loop running to a HX for my hot water.  Each of those loops has its own pump. 

So when the heat for the furnace kicks on it pulls water off that 1 1/4" loop and pumps it through 1" pex to my furnace HX and then dumps it back into the 1 1/4" loop.  That means my garage heater can also kick on and it has full access to that 1 1/4" loop at the same time as my house furnace.

I also installed my heat exchanger in the furnace upside down.  The hot water enters the hx at the top and the cooler water comes out the bottom.  That's backwards from the recommended method.  But think about it....if your hot water enters the bottom of the HX that's where the cold return air first touches the hx and begin's to warm.   That air begins to warm and when it exits it the top of the HX its being exposed to cooler temperatures because your outlet water is always cooler than the inlet water.    In my system, the cooler temps are at the bottom of the hx and the air begins to warm and just as it leaves the HX its exposed to the hottest temperature because that's the inlet for my hot water.  So you get more efficiency out of the HX by installing it the way I did.  The reason they recommend the inlet on the bottom is to eliminate air pockets in the HX.  Not because its more efficient.

None of my stuff is in series.

The other thing I did was use grundfos pumps instead of Taco.  The grundfos pumps have 3 speed adjustments for fine tuning your system.  My main pump is in the house, not at the boiler.  Its installed near the basement floor so it takes advantage of the water dropping towards the pump to improve efficiency.  If I have a pump go out, I can change it in the warmth of my home rather than standing in the cold out by the boiler.  I can also add water to the system from in the house.

Offline Holmes

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Re: Central Boiler 6048 installation.
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2014, 11:53:17 pm »
 MNBobcat  That sounds like a very well designed system.
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Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: Central Boiler 6048 installation.
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2014, 10:06:23 am »
I won't be loosing much at my heat exchanger, it has 2" ports on it. :D Due to the need for a little simplicity, and economy, I will be running the return from the boiler through a Modine in my garage. It also is way oversized, and will have constant water circulation in the winter, and the fan will be on a thermostat.
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Offline MNBobcat

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Re: Central Boiler 6048 installation.
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2014, 10:09:23 am »
Holmes,

Thanks.  I had a few challenges.  The boiler loop ended up being about 550 feet round trip.  I was really concerned about flow rate at that distance.  But I wanted the boiler located between my house and the pole building as I ran heat to both.

The other is my house is 7,000 square feet.  I was worried about getting enough btus to heat it.  So far the system has worked well but when its -20F out like it has been much of this winter, I've found its best not to turn the thermostat down at night.  Seems it can hold the temperature easier than bring it up.  One problem is when they built the house they didn't size the main heat plenum big enough.  At some point I'm going to rip it out and up-size it.

Offline Holmes

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Re: Central Boiler 6048 installation.
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2014, 11:47:21 am »
 It takes a lot of btu's to replace the ones you did not put into the house all night long . Leaving the t stat set a normal temp is the better thing to do.

Dave How big is the Modine? Sometimes $implicity  works out well. :)
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Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: Central Boiler 6048 installation.
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2014, 12:01:50 pm »
The core must be 20" square, maybe bigger. Garage is a typical two car. Should be big enough.  :D
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Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: Central Boiler 6048 installation.
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2014, 05:00:11 pm »
My heat exchanger is used, and huge, but free, and has 2" pipe fittings. I thought I was going to have to buy 2" to 1" reducing bushing and then use 90 pex fittings to pipe it where it needs to go. I was digging around in the shed and found four 2" to 1" elbows today. That's four fittings I don't need to buy. 8)

Like I said, the exchanger is huge, but free. 8) Oh, and this was the smaller plate exchanger I was offered. :D

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Offline MNBobcat

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Re: Central Boiler 6048 installation.
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2014, 01:12:21 am »
Dave,

When you install that its a good idea to install the valves with a hose bib so that you can put them in bypass mode and pump a cleaner through that plate exchanger to clean it from time to time.

Offline LittleJohn

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Re: Central Boiler 6048 installation.
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2014, 04:27:00 pm »
Also, remember to have some kind of union connection.  For ease of maintenance or replacement in the future. 

That heat exchanger will definately be able to keep up with the boiler, even if running snowmelt!!! :o

Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: Central Boiler 6048 installation.
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2014, 08:32:25 pm »
So I finally got my new door today. Well, I got everything but the door. ::) All the tin, damper insulation and a couple of strangely shaped pieces of plate steel. But no cast iron door. >:( Of course it was too late to call and see what the story was. You would think that having the model number, date of manufacture and serial number would get you the right parts.
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Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: Central Boiler 6048 installation.
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2014, 03:42:46 pm »
Still no door. I guess it's a good thing this wasn't my only source of heat. I did, however, burn about $3,000 worth of fuel oil while I was waiting for it. Might have it next month was the answer I got on Monday. ::)
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Offline beenthere

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Re: Central Boiler 6048 installation.
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2014, 04:25:33 pm »
Dave, did you buy it knowing it didn't have a door? Or what happened to the door?

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Offline Gary_C

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Re: Central Boiler 6048 installation.
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2014, 05:37:49 pm »

I also installed my heat exchanger in the furnace upside down.  The hot water enters the hx at the top and the cooler water comes out the bottom.  That's backwards from the recommended method.  But think about it....if your hot water enters the bottom of the HX that's where the cold return air first touches the hx and begin's to warm.   That air begins to warm and when it exits it the top of the HX its being exposed to cooler temperatures because your outlet water is always cooler than the inlet water.    In my system, the cooler temps are at the bottom of the hx and the air begins to warm and just as it leaves the HX its exposed to the hottest temperature because that's the inlet for my hot water.  So you get more efficiency out of the HX by installing it the way I did.  The reason they recommend the inlet on the bottom is to eliminate air pockets in the HX.  Not because its more efficient.

In order to get maximum efficiency from a water to air heat exchanger like you have, you must put the coldest air up against the highest temperature water. In other words you want to have the maximum temperature difference from the incoming water side of the exchanger to the incoming air side. That requires the water inlet to be on the incoming air side of the exchanger or down in an upflow furnace.

Plus there is nothing that will kill the efficiency of that heat exchanger more than having air trapped on the water side of the exchanger.

So I am sorry, but putting that exchanger in up side down will hurt rather than help efficiency. You can relieve some of the air trapped problem by adding an air eliminator at the top of that exchanger but sometimes those air eliminators do not work well all the time.

Also the size of the water line has more to do with the maximum head capacity of those pumps than it does with the heat transfer ability of the system. So your line size will depend on length of line, number of elbows, restrictions in the system, height of the heat exchanger above the boiler, etc. The BTU's you need is determined more by the heat exchangers you put in line.

So you always size your line by the amount of resistance called head or back pressure in your system to avoid overloading the pump capacity. Then you size your heat exchangers for the amount of BTU's you need. 
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Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: Central Boiler 6048 installation.
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2014, 12:34:22 pm »
The other part of my door came in last week. They want another $104 shipping. I was supposed to get one complete door, shipped, for $500 in February. Now, I have an erector set and double shipping charges.  ::) I think I'm up to about $4,000 worth of oil burned waiting for the door. :-\
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Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: Central Boiler 6048 installation.
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2014, 10:39:08 pm »
I finally got the last parts to my door. Central Boiler parts diagrams suck! I managed to get all the pieces of the erector set together, despite the paperwork. Just waiting on running the power to try it out. As I mentioned before, I was told that one complete, assembled door was $500 shipped to the dealer, that they were in stock, and would be in in one week. I got all of the crucial parts, eventually, but did not have any of the hardware, and some of the parts were not the same as in the diagrams that came with the new parts. ::)

 

 
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Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: Central Boiler 6048 installation.
« Reply #37 on: August 18, 2014, 03:13:26 pm »
We have lift off! Well, hopefully no lift off, but we have smoke. :D I had to guess at the location of the draft door solenoid, but it looks like I got it pretty close, as the draft door opens the allotted 1". I've got a small fire going in it now, and will let it warm up all afternoon and see if it cycles properly.

 

 
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Re: Central Boiler 6048 installation.
« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2014, 09:01:32 pm »
Temp came up to 185 and the door snapped shut.  8) I'm amazed at how well insulated the boiler is. I don't have a load on it right now, so the fire went out over night, but I started it again this morning to continue the testing. I shut the boiler off this afternoon, and it was at 187, and a few minutes ago it hadn't lost any temp at all. I realize that my temp differential isn't as great now, only about 110, but I kind of expected it to drop faster.

On another positive note, I talked to a friend today that has the same boiler and quizzed him on burning pine slabs. He said that they are his favorite fuel, period. His fire has been burning continuously for over a year, and he has less than 4" of ash in the bottom, and he never takes any out. In the summer he stuffs the boiler at 10 PM, and in the winter he does 10 PM, and 7 AM. That makes me happy, as I now know where this pile is going this winter:

 

 
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Offline WmFritz

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Re: Central Boiler 6048 installation.
« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2014, 09:24:21 pm »
It's going to feel good watching the fuel oil truck driving by your place this winter.

Did you get your lines buried yet Dave?
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