Ya Just GOTTA Be Careful, Out There

[Fla._Deadheader]

According to what Ron says, that is correct. Now, we don't get hardwood logs out of this 80° water, so, I'm goin with Ron. He's done it longer than us.

[SwampDonkey]

Yes, I think Sherwood posted some really old submerged logs in the Historic Milling and Logging thread. But, you can't use hardwood for veneer from submerged logs. Its been tried, the lignon deteriorates and when the veneer sheets dry they become bristle or even some have found that they end up like dust.

Here's an interesting article Reminds me of what some of you folks have been involved in on here. That's got to be expensive logging

[Furby]

Yep SD, the way they do it, it is!  
Deadheader has found ways of doing it cheaply, and their need for more logs and more hauling capacity, has also increased their cost. Right Deadheader??

Myself, I really only want to recover a handfull. Well that's to start with anyways!  
A few here and there can be done cheaply, with a little more time involved. The big thing is the permits and the State's cut, if I'm only getting a few logs for myself, it's not worth it even to try. I have wondered how hard it would be to get away with getting a few logs, but I figure that if I got caught, the State wouldn't hesitate to press charges.  :-/

[SwampDonkey]

Well you folks all enjoy what your doing, and that's the main thing. I went to renew my liability and E&O insurances today. They got bumped up another $450 this year, to $3400. Oh well, if you don't spend it on insurance then the tax man takes it in taxes, so what's the diff, eh?

[Fla._Deadheader]

  If you posted an article, I don't see it

 Might be able to follow yer discussion, if there was an article. or if you esplaned what yer talkin about.

 Furby, down here, the State WILL prosecute ya for stealin state property.  I asked 'em one time, which State emplayee put them logs there. Ya otter see their looks on their faces.  I told 'em they was crooks for claimin them logs in the first place.

[SwampDonkey]

errmm Hold ya mousy over the words 'Here's an interesting article' sigh.....

[Furby]

 
I like the way you think Deadheader!  

[etat]

I liked  your statement Fla. about calling em crooks.   I'm a thinking you might not always win but you're sure gonna argue the point and make em squirm in the process.  Specially when you know that you're more right than they are!!!!

Heck, I bet you'd argue it even if you weren't right, I know I would!!!!!

[Fla._Deadheader]

   I DID move the cursoe all over the post. Missed it by THAAAAAT much.  

 CK, best defense is a good offense.

 Now, I'll go read the article.

 Shoot fire, I already done did read that article.  They get more $$$$ for their wood.  Florida State figgered out that there is a little money in what we do, so, they instigated big permit fees, so we don't get too rich.

[SwampDonkey]

   What a guy  

[Ron Scott]

Deadheader,

Yes we did salvage many quality hardwood logs from the fresh water lakes here. Most of our logs were hardwoods as they were usually the "sinkers" as being the more denser wood.

As Furby said, the cold waters of Lake Superior especially retained the hardwood quality. Much of our diving there was in 35-45 degree water. I remember one freezing cold hole at a 50 foot depth in Lake Superior where we had to wear a dry suit over a 1/4 inch wet suit in early July and regularly surface to the boat to get warm. That was in 1963; equipment is much better today.

[Furby]

Ok, been thinking about Deadheader's little comment to the state.
I'm guessing this is a stupid ?, but the mill owned the logs when they went down. What are the recovery laws, both then AND today. What I mean to say is, it really don't have anything to do with fishing grounds and such, more or less just recovery of personal property, well kinda.  

Anyone know where I can find out what is contained in these court cases?

Just thinking, that's all!  

[Ron Scott]

There is a lot of legal opinions that can be researched on salvage law. Years back we operated as follows and salvage law was often a "finders keepers" kind of thing when the ownership was unknown.

1) Submerged logs belonged to the owner for recovery in a timely manner.
2) If one didn't declare ownership with proof of ownership, log mark etc. and the logs were left submerged for 30 days or more without any action towards recovery, they were considered abandoned and became open for salvage by the finder.
3) Submerged logs were often considered to be the ownership of the closest mill if such ownership could be established. If not they became available for salvage by whoever found them.

That was years back, now the submerged logs are claimed as property of the state from whose waters they are located in. Any salvage then is in accordance to that state's laws and permits are required for any salvage if allowed.

The original "finders keepers" kind of salvage laws pretty much doesn't exist anymore as they have become superseded by all sorts of jurisdictional and environmental laws.

Following Mel Fisher's story on his finding and salvage of the Atochia treasures off Florida is a story of legal battles concerning salvage law.  

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Right on, Ron. The funny part about Mel's fight is, the wreck is NOT in Florida waters. It is 40 miles off Key West. The Feds tried to fight Mel, but, they used "Piracy" type confiscation actions. The high courts gave everything to Mel. He had originally offered the State a nice percentage. They ended up with nothing. Of course, it cost a bundle in court fights over the years, but, at 400 million $+, I guess it worked out.  

 Here, if you find a "Branded" log, you HAVE to bring it in and call the local Sheriff. He will "arrest" the log, and you have to haul it to their impound yard. He will "supposedly" do a search for the owner or heirs thereof, and if he strikes out, he gets to sell the log and keep the proceeds for his efforts at trying to locate the owner(s).  How's THAT for your friendly govt. helping the taxpayer

 There's more, but, if I post it, I will lose all the rights to recover logs, if the wrong people read it.  That's all I got to say about that. .

[SwampDonkey]

I'de also like to here from the beach comber types from the BC coast. But, I don't think they can beach comb now. I could be mistaken. No, I'm not talkin about Bruno Gerussi of the CBC tv series of the 70's.

The Beachcombers

Theme (639kb)

[Furby]

Ron, what you said is pretty much what my understanding of things was.
Deadheader, I hear ya, don't want ya to lose out on anything!  
SD, that's another thing I've been giving some thought the last few weeks, beach combing! But I figured I'd still be in the same boat so to speak!  

[Grawulf]

Fla._Deadheader,
Do you have any pics of the rig you use to raise the logs here on the forum? Would love to see some of that southern ingenuity! Do the logs smell swampy :-/ when you're sawing or do they retain the smell of the tree? Is there a different drying schedule for wood that's been submerged - just curious - not many submerged logs here around Savannah, Ohio, although they did find an ancient Indian dugout close to us - looked like a log to me!