Author Topic: At it again, when will I learn. (Read 5874 times)

etat · « **Reply #20 on:** May 17, 2004, 08:52:07 pm »

Sorry, didn't notice your post jeff. It'll come nearer getting staples than any other tool I've tried. Most will pull out with the shingles.

etat · « **Reply #21 on:** May 18, 2004, 01:23:54 am »

I just now completely get it, after lookin at them drawings. Duh! First, as you said, the simplest thing is to stop the roof before they hit together. If you do decide to butt them together and create a short dead valley, it CAN be 100 percent waterproofed, BUT, to do it permanately is a bit more complicated than just nailing on underlayment and shingles. It's gotta be done correctly. We just finished a house with such a dead valley and if you need I can go back and take a picture of it. Materials used were wide valley metal, ice and water shield underlayment, and shingles. To roof such a dead valley successfully will take a bit of time to describe, but it NEEDS to be done correctly. If it were my house, I would go ahead and bump the roofs, that'll stifen up the hangover and preserve the looks and lines, and be much less expensive and bothersome than trying to change the pitches on the roof. Then I would 100 percent waterproof it, even to the point if I had a pond built up there. It's not gonna be that big an area, or that hard to do. . If you decide to go this route please let me know and I'll figure out how to tell you exactly how to do it. I will absolutely say this, I've fixed a BUNCH of them that somebody else roofed wrong.

ADfields · « **Reply #22 on:** May 18, 2004, 04:31:56 pm »

Yes it can be water tight like that. In Arizona we would do a roof like that just to collect water for the land scape but I would not think of it in big snow country like Michigan, all that lake effects snow.

You don't see much flat roofed or even low pitch roofed houses in snow country. I have a picture in my head long about next February of a 2 foot thick block of ice in that valley covered with 2 foot of snow pack and a foot of snow on the other parts of the roof.

The roof loads for that are awesome! Imagen if that ice cube became dislodged some how in April as you shut the front door on your way out.

We had a USFS ranger killed hear last winter just like that!
Andy

etat · « **Reply #23 on:** May 18, 2004, 05:23:45 pm »

Hey Ad, thanks for the info. I can't even picture in my head snow like that. Never seen none that deep. Don't want too!!!

Everything you said makes sense though!!!!

Furby · « **Reply #24 on:** May 18, 2004, 06:55:48 pm »

If it was me and I had to do something like this, I'd go with AD's drawing on the right. It may take a little messing around to get it right, but it can look pretty good. Just make sure before hand that the pitch isn't going to be too shallow. A little less then 4/12 can still be used in this situation, as it is just the overhangs, and not the main roof.

Jeff · « **Reply #25 on:** May 18, 2004, 07:10:58 pm »

Thats to much trouble. I'm either going to hang it short or learn how to water proof it if I dont. We get a lot of snow, but not thatmush. We are on the fringe of lake effect from both directions and it does not really impact us. Our snows come from system storms.

I gotta do it tomorrow so I aint gotta figure it out till then.

ADfields · « **Reply #26 on:** May 18, 2004, 07:58:57 pm »

You don't get 24" of snow out of a storm once in a while? I stooped in a hotel in Grand Rapids about 10 years back and woke up to 14" in the morning and still coming down.

There was over a foot on the ground the night before so that made over 2 foot and that was in November.
Andy

etat · « **Reply #27 on:** May 18, 2004, 08:00:04 pm »

This is what we do. gap, shingles, water shield, valley metal, water shield. That gets you started. Ice and water shield should have 1 and 1/2 inch hangover on the edge side, and blend in with the shingles on the roof side, extending at least 6 to 8 inches. You have to cut and form it some to acomplish this. Some of the shingles will be under the metal, then metal then shingles on top keeping it so it'll keep shedding water. You don't want to have a situation where your shingles have a chance to dump water under the metal or water shield. We then cover the dead valley with shingles turned crossways with enough hangover that water can't run under. These shingles only nail on the sides at the top, nowhere close in the valley. Then when we do the shingles that are tying in to the roof we start them so the bottom of the shingle is 8 inches up from the bottom of the valley. You 'll have to have a handfull of longer roofing tacks because the build up starts getting a little thicker here. Everything will wind up weaved together.

Jeff · « **Reply #28 on:** May 19, 2004, 03:47:19 pm »

Well, I dont know how bad this is going to be, but they apparently didnt do it right the first time either! 10,000,000 ants came out when I started prying on the facia. I sure hope the rot is limited to the facia and firring strip underneath.

THere looks to be no flashing directly under the dead valley, and the shingles are cracked there. The fflashing starts below the valley and along where the roof meets the top of the wall.

As you can see, there was already a short dead valley, about 12 inches. I will be doubling this. I still am not sure how to do this even from all the instructions. I am Dense! :-/

etat · « **Reply #29 on:** May 19, 2004, 06:31:18 pm »

shingles running under gap with stepflashing if you need to cut a slot with a sawzall

ice and water shield

valley metal, should be at least 18 inches wide, and extend over edges just a bit

another ice and water shield

slot cut in shingle

placement of shingle with slot

not a good picture, first down shingle turned backwards starts about where the sunspot is

shingling the dead valley, shingles should only be nailed at the TOP OF THE SIDES, my nails are low 'running out of board'

another down shingles turned around upside down, this should be at least 8 to 10 inches from the bottom of the valley so as not to hinder water flow this is improper nail placement, should be nailed at the TOP of the shngle on this one, after this you can nail as normal

you'll have to do figuring here so these shingles will match what's on the rest of the roof, not as much of a problem figuring out with dimensional shingles as three tab

side note, if this seems complicated, it is. You've got to think like water. I know VERY VERY few roofers or roofing companies that know the proper way to roof a dead valley such as this. I wouldn't give out top secret information as this to just anybody!!

Tom · « **Reply #30 on:** May 19, 2004, 06:36:46 pm »

By golly, that was an informative bit of showmanship.

Chet · « **Reply #31 on:** May 19, 2004, 06:46:11 pm »

Chasing ants and rotten wood is like rust in an old car. Usually when you start digging you find way more than first appears on the surface.

Tom · « **Reply #32 on:** May 19, 2004, 06:50:43 pm »

A place that may be prone to rot may be worth putting treated wood into.

Rod · « **Reply #33 on:** May 19, 2004, 06:53:41 pm »

maybe you could use EPDM Rubber Roofing in the valley

Jeff · « **Reply #34 on:** May 19, 2004, 07:00:58 pm »

WOW Ck! Can you mail that to me now?

That will help tons. I'll just have to print me off a handy dandy instructional kit and pin it to the back of my brudder in law.

beenthere · « **Reply #35 on:** May 19, 2004, 07:04:14 pm »

Jeff
Tough one. I was thinking you might build up that area with a bridge or ridge (ridge between pts 'a' and 'c'), making two small valley's (one valley between pts 'a' and 'b', and the other valley hidden from view, but starting at pt 'c') for the water coming down along each roof overhang to be diverted away from the edge towards the lower roof. Thus not having the low dead valley to collect the water.

(I also see there are 'valley' methods pictured by who is more expert than I).

So just passing on the thought.

etat · « **Reply #36 on:** May 19, 2004, 07:08:31 pm »

A number of materials can be used, epdm rubber, wider heavier metal, modified bituimum, and the wost of the worst, rolled roofing. I've got quite a few scraps of rubber lying around, but I like the way the ice and water shield sticks, and I feel it seals around the nail holes better than rubber. Also shingles, which even though contain fiberglass are asphalt based. Asphalt based products aren't compatable with rubber.

Jeff · « **Reply #37 on:** May 19, 2004, 07:18:11 pm »

Jeff · « **Reply #38 on:** May 19, 2004, 07:20:22 pm »

I was only 20 when we had this house built and I didnt know much then, not that I know a whole lot more now, but look at that ridge vent. How did that not leak for 22 years? All the nails attaching it are exposed and its not capped with shingles.

etat · « **Reply #39 on:** May 19, 2004, 07:35:36 pm »

For one, you were lucky. For two, not near as much water up at the top like that as further down the roof. Take a two or three inch rain, then a small nail hole up at the top that was to leak, and that wouldn't be much water. Take that same nail hole down the roof where water is running like a river, and the water it'll catch is liable to knock sheet rock out of the ceiling! I can't see the ridge vent that well, but they make an aluminum ridge vent that does fasten with exposed fasteners. I NEVER use them, will refuse to do so. I always use nail over plastic ridge vent that covers with a ridge cap shingle. NO exposed fasteners except the very last one.

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Author Topic: At it again, when will I learn. (Read 5874 times)