Picture of scale on mill.

[Danny_S]

You thought there was going to be a picture didnt ya?  

Does anyone have or can someone take a picture of the scale that is used on most bandmills, they look mostly the same, like a woodmizer one or something. Just want it for some explanation purposes.

[ADfields]

If you look around on Woodmizer's or Timberking's web page over to the left I bet you could find what you want.
Andy

[Jim_Rogers]

I've posted a picture of mine here on the forum before.... let me see if i can find it and post the link....
Jim Rogers


PS. I did a search and found this one: Scale on a mill

If this isn't good enough let me know and I'll take another one and post if for you.

[Tom]

[Danny_S]

That's great thanks,... I found one last night also in the photo gallery after a while.....  So the measurements allow for the kerf each time as well right?

[Tom]

The quarter scales allow for the board, the kerf, the shrinkage and the dressing.  Since shrinkage and dressing are variables, you might want to make up your own scale for specific jobs.

[Larry]

Magnetic TK scale on the left.  They make them in a wide variety.  The bottom pointer is fixed and calibrated to the inch scale.  The top pointer is moveable and can be used with any of the stick on fixed scales.




Home made scale and wire pointer.  Both are moveable.  Got them made for about any thickness of board.  Use these more than any of the others just because they don’t confuse me and my bifocals.  Behind the home made scale you can see a stick on fixed scale.

[Larry]

I just noticed that Jim’s inch scale is upside down compared to the one on my mill.  How does that work?

When my pointer reads 14" I know I’m cutting 14" off the bed.

[Jim_Rogers]

On some mills the pointer moves up and down and on other mills the pointer stays still and the scale moves up and down. On my mill the pointer stays still and the scale moves up and down. So when my scale moves down towards the bed the numbers have to be lower.
The older WoodMizer had the scale still and the pointer moved but you had to bend over to read the pointer to the scale. They got tired of that and reversed things so that the pointer always stays at eye level (more or less).
The new pointers on the WoodMizers are metal. Mine is Plexiglas and it had gotten scratched up and is now hard to read, looking threw the glass.
I'm planning on getting a new metal one soon.
Jim Rogers

[Tom]

Those scales are nice and I've used mine for years with good results.

I've also found that they are pretty much useless when you want to cut a board that is different than the scale you are using. If you cut a 4/4 board and then a 6/4 board, the next 4/4 board will be off of the scale. (How I used to dread this when I first began)

For this reason I've tried to train myself to cut with only a true scale. I cut the thickness of the board, adding the kerf.  Remembering the position of the head, I can return to it and make my next board anything I want.

I've cut 4,5,6 and 8 quarter from the same cant at the customer's whim.

Yes there is usually a trim cut at the end to get on target or to cut the last board, but, sawing this way allows you to maximize the cant.

I've posted before how I do it.  It's kind of embarrassingly simple and "experts" make fun of me, so I won't put it here again unless someone wants me to.

[Swede]

Tom;

Of corse we want You to tell us abuot again! (^___^) I can´t make fun of You in a week or so, perhaps got my smileys back then. My son is coming home on Thursday and I hope he is not to buzy to work with my computer.

The TK scale looks a little like the one I work on at "Amerika-Sågen.
There is a 800 mm. scale that´s still but it´s difficult and takes time finding the right point with the hydr. lever and just the pointer going up/down.
So i put a movable 250mm. scale to it. I set the dimension reading the movable scale to the pointer. Let the sawhead down and a switcher meets the movable scale at 0 and stops the sawhead on it´s way down.


I´ll tell you if it works and send photo when I´m able to.  Also promise not to make fun of You any way!

Swede..

[Danny_S]

This is what I built and figure on using for now...



I can adjust the scale by moving the rule up or down... those clamps will be replaced by a slot and carrige bolt with a wingnut.



the pointer is the same thickness as the kerf, so I take reading off the bottom, determine dimension I want and set it off of the top of the pointer.   The rule itself is set to zero with the bed so if cutting from the bed I just set dimension with bottom of pointer.

[Tom]

Ok.  Here goes.  Don't laugh now.

I get sidetracked easily so I had to come up with something simple.  Fractions make me think too hard so I came up with something that I could remember for two minutes.

I use the true scale.  That takes care of the inches.  I translate the kerf and drying into "Marks".  I was using the 1/16th mark but found that a lot of my boards were coming out thinner than I wanted when they dried.  Now I use the 1/8th mark.

I don't worry about the distance to the bed because I don't expect to come out even anyway (although I can).  I can also use that last trim to my advantage by turning the last board over or pulling it tight against the bed and making it true with the trim cut.

I drop my blade one inch. add one mark and cut.
(I remember where I am)
bring the  blade back to the beginning of the log.
Drop one inch and add one mark.

etc, etc

If I want to make a 6/4, I drop an inch add 5 marks.  .

It takes a bit of practice to get your head thinking like this but it is not nearly as complicated as trying to do the math for fractions.  You also have all of that time, that you are gigging back, to finish figuring out what you didn't figure out while you were cutting the last board.   It actually becomes second nature and doens't require any figuring hardly at all.

You can start your cutting on the inch or anywhere in between, it makes no difference. (stay on eighths)

If you are cutting to a target, say 6 inches, you count the inches from the 6 inch mark upwards to close to the first cut in the top of the log and add a mark for every inch.  That's your first cut mark.  If you mis-judged and placed yourself over the top of the log, just mentally make cuts until your blade is back in the log and send it on its way.

The neat thing is that all those other marks on the scale don't mean anything and just clutter things up.  You have no need for 16ths, 32nds, etc. Just ignore them.  Your scale turns into marks made from 8ths.

Before long you will be talking to yourself, as you drop the blade, " I was at 12 minus three so go to 11 minus 3 and drop a kerf. 11 minus 4.
Then the next board will be 11 minus 4 drop a kerf.  (or 11-5)
....and the next will be 10 minus 5 drop a kerf. (or 10-6)

Want a 2x next?

It'll be 8-7

Want a six quarter next?
Drop to the inch. (that takes you to 7)
Then count down 5 marks.

You don't worry about where it's taking you, only where it took you so that you can get back there when you gig back.

I use some figures interchangeably depending on how easily I am able to remember them.  This is for identifying where I was.  I may use (10-6) or I may turn that around in my head and call it (9+2). I still drop a mark for the kerf.

Cutting 4/4 this is what goes through my mind if I start on an inch mark.

(15-1) (14-2) (13-3) (12-4) (11-5) (10-6) (9-7) (8-8 or 7) (6-1) (5-2) etc., etc,

[Larry]

Jim,
Sounds like a better idea to me.  Easier on the back, faster, and more accurate.  Gonna have to see if I can change my mill over.

Tom,
Tried your way a few times and never could get proficient.  I guess now I can see where it would be easier if your switching scales in a log frequently.

[Swede]

Seems to work and thats good enough. Perhaps I should try to find scales with 1/8", we sometimes use your "unlogical measures" in wood here.

I try to count "backwards" so the last board always is 1 1/2"=42-kerf or an 2" =55- kerf or 85=2pc. 1 1/2. When I first heard about it I didn´t think I could learn to do it but it works fine sawing 7/8=25-kerf, 1" (thick but mostly wide boards for panel)=30mm-kerf, 42-kerf=1 1/2, 2"=55-kerf, 65=2 1/2-kerf, ................The new movable scale also helps to remember where the last kerf was.

Think i understand the half of it, Tom. (^__^) If I go to bed and have some sleep perhaps i get it all. The time is 00:50 here now. (´O´)

Swede.

[Jim_Rogers]

I won't make fun of you, Tom. If it works for you then good, whatever it is.
I personally use the sliding scale but have modified it to cut true dimension lumber not over sized for shrinkage.
If I cut a 1 1/2" board I want that to come off my mill 1 1/2" thick.
If I cut a 2"x4" for myself or a customer I want it to be 2"x4". The customer doesn't want it to be 2 1/16 or thicker just cause woodmizer's scale puts it out that way to allow for future shrinkage. Unless I'm intensionally cutting lumber 8/4 for furniture then I use "their" scale to make stuff thicker to allow for future shrinkage, if the customer wants it.

So what I have done is created my own scale on the fixed regular ruler in pencil, and transfered those marks over to the sliding scale so that I can then use the sliding scale when I want to cut boards or lumber off a log and finish at a certain size cant.

For example at the two inch mark I put an arrow < at the 4 1/8" mark another < and 6 1/4" another <, on and on up my scale.
And at the 1 1/2" mark I put a double << at 3 1/8" another <<  so on and so on up my scale.
And again transferring these marks over to the sliding scale, all in pencil.
This way I can use my fixed ruler and my sliding scale to cut any log, not have to figure anything in my head, and not have to make any trim cuts later producing a thin piece of lumber (hopefully) that the customer will question me as to "why did you cut that thin one?"
If I'm working with a customer and he's making decisions based on what we see as we're milling his high quality log and he decides to make a different thickness cut than what I've planned out for the log, I inform him that I can do that for him but he'll end up with some odd thickness piece at some time. Then i usually try and place this odd thickness piece at the center of the cant so that the heart/pith runs threw this odd piece and thereby making it a very low value piece that he or I don't mind throwing away.
This is just my system that works for me.
I have created all sorts of different thickness scales here on the computer, printed them out, and taken them out to the mill and transfered the line marks from the paper scale onto the fixed scale to do special jobs and this has worked great for me many times. Especially when you're planning on cutting thin stock.
Whatever system you use or create for yourself that works is good.
Good luck with your systems.
Jim Rogers

[Larry]

And I thought I was the only one that made scales.  On the lower portion of my fixed inch scale I have all kinds of colored marks.  One color for pallet cants, another for survey stakes, and etc.

[WeeksvilleWoodWorx]

I've got a pretty good grasp with numbers/math/fractions, but you guys are giving me a head ache

When my WM gets here next week I shall see if I made the right decision to buy the Accuset

[Ianab]

 
I know why I like the swingblade system now....
You dont worry so much where the blade is, just that it's 1" or 2" or 6" + kerf from your last cut. What ever is left is the bottom slab.
Simple is good

Ian

[Tom]

you'll love having a setworks WWW.  

Make sure you run without it every once in a while so that you wiill continue to appreciate it.   They sure help to keep your lumber accurate.

[D._Frederick]

WWW,

The old time sawyers use to figure all the cuts out in there head as they sawed, they never had any shim cuts. They figured were the first slap cut would be and cut from there with no waste cut.

You Accuset will do the same thing and much faster.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Maybe so "D", but, it's fun pullin a 12' cut off a log thats so thin the sun shines through. Makes the log owners smile. They KNOW you are gettin all the boards, cause you didn't waste that "shim" by leavin it in the slab  

[DR_Buck]

When I need to change the thickness after starting to cut the cant,  say  4/4 to 6/4 or something else, I lower the blade (not cutting) onto the top of the cant and adjust the sliding scale to the new dimension (or at the end of the cut before changing the blade height adjust the sliding scale). Then I start cutting down at the new thickness.  If I end up with a odd thickness I try cut it from the center of the pith.

I'm planning on making a scale for standard framing lumber dimensions with sticky back paper printed from the computer and sticking it on an aluminum strip in place of the standard woodmizer sliding scale.

Dave

[Danny_S]

I was thinking of using a sliding scale, it would only have to be about 9" long because that is all that I can cut between the blade and the head crossmember. So after the cut, before any adjustments, zero the sliding scale then set the next dimension.   Awesome,... I like it.