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Author Topic: Timber Frame Provider UK  (Read 13843 times)

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Offline Andrew Jackson

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Timber Frame Provider UK
« on: January 10, 2013, 06:17:36 am »
Rob Roy Homes http://robroyhomes.co.uk, are  as a specialist in the design and supply of timber frames for buildings and timber frame extensions. They provide timber frame kits for a variety of clients and projects, including small projects such as self build garages to larger projects like wood lodges to new house builds. Since forming in 1974, Rob Roy Homes has become one of the leaders in Timber Frame Providers in the UK.

Rob Roy homes take pride in providing comprehensive advice throughout any project and go further than being just a timber frame supplier. A free no obligation timber frame quote is available as well as advice on building warrants and planning.

Offline Jay C. White Cloud

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Re: Timber Frame Provider UK
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2013, 06:51:14 am »
Rob Roy homes are not timber frames and do not provide that service in any way!!!   smiley_furious  These are not timber frames in the North American market or any other for that matter.  These are prefab Stick Built structures.  Again, not timber frames,  I'm dealing with this from the Australian market as well.   Very confusing.
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

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Offline Rooster

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Re: Timber Frame Provider UK
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2013, 11:18:29 pm »
I agree with Jay...the title is very misleading...it almost seems like this Andrew Jackson Member is only here to use this forum to promote this one company...it doesn't seem to fit the overall "culture" of our membership.

Rooster
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Offline Jay C. White Cloud

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Re: Timber Frame Provider UK
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2013, 12:14:39 am »
Rooster,

Thank you for the support!  I know it is really beginning to tick me off. smiley_furious

Hello FF,

I have dealt with this now on several occasions, and I must say it has now become truly tiresome.  In the beginning I thought it was just I, being overly sensitive to a craft, that is more than just a job I do, but an art craft to be protected for future generations.  Wars, technologies and corporate dominance has almost strip many of these guild crafts from us.  A lucky few, and I count myself as one, has been blessed enough to meet elders that still had the means to pass on that knowledge.  I will not sit idly by and watch as some corporate crony tries to dilute the true meaning of the craft to further promote a product that is not related in any way.

I have been facing this down on several fronts.  One being the Timber Frame Business Counsel and within several Timber Wright Guilds.  Please find below one of my comments at the TFBC and a response from a wonderful company in Australia, that is battling this on a more intimate level than we have here in North America.

Quote
"Timber Frame" vs "Post and Beam" or "North America" vs "Some other Nations"
This it's not an "Us" vs "Them," comment but more for clarification and understanding between markets. Because of my involvement in education and working overseas I have taken on the mantel of Timber Wright instead of Timber Framer. The following may explain why.

As a professional in the "wood trade," and an educator, I try, (and often fail,) to use the terminology of a particular craft, trade or region. NLMA, (Northeastern Lumber Manufactures Association,) and several others, have very clear designations for the differences between wood products that are "Timbers," and those that are "boards," "stud framing & decking." There sizing is clearly defined for each. NLMA standards are widely excepted across North America and overseas, but there are pockets that have chosen to follow variants of these standards, STTA (Scottish Timber Trade Association,) and the UKTFA (United Kingdom Timber Frame Association,) being two that I know of. Australia, Tasmania, and New Zealand as well. Why I am not completely sure? Is that a marketing ploy or method for this? I do not know.

I have failed again, perhaps, to pick up on a regional nuances in terms like "timber frame." I must state for the record that I can not except that the "traditional heavy post and beam frames," that I am designing and facilitating, and the products promoted by companies like mine, are in the same class architecturally, as "stud constructed," architecture. There is clearly a difference in quality, strength and longevity; which is being proven every day as we see "stud frames," failing to endure much beyond 70 years; those that are enduring have been built in a time that was in flux between true "timber framing," and "stud" construction methodologies.

For folks following this TFBC (Timber Frame Business Council,) that distinction needs to be clear. We design, and facilitate traditional and modern styles of timber frames, and in no way are affiliated with the "stud" construction or modular wall home sector. If that is not the case, then I'm in the wrong organization.

Regards,

Jay C. White Cloud
Tosa Tomo Designs


Isabelle Harwood wrote:

Quote
Thank you for your comments back. That is exactly what we are having to deal with. Here in Australia the traditional timber framing is still small and I sometimes wonder if the general population actually appreciates this craft. Questions we get at exhibitions is sometimes quite embarrassing - is this really timber? Why are there cracks in the timber? Is this solid timber? etc.
Once it has been explained to them that this type of construction is actually going to outlast any modern stick builds, they are impressed and go back to their stick frame homes where everything is nice and sterile. Mentality here in Australia is very different. If they can get the same space built for less elsewhere, why should they spend more? That is really the biggest hurdle. Saying this though, those few that appreciate the craft, the timber, the design, the strength and longevity of the timber frame, really enjoy it and embrace this craft.

Here in Australia the terminology of "timber framing" is mostly related to "stud" frame construction and it can get very challenging when I try to talk about timber framing. On the web searches picture frame manufacturer even come up. So the spectrum of understanding is very wide. We choose to specify - heavy or traditional timber framing, sometimes even referring to Post and Beam. Post and Beam is another one where we have noticed the general public understands large visible timbers in the home and general understand these are bolted together.
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Online beenthere

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Re: Timber Frame Provider UK
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2013, 12:55:40 am »
It's Jeff's Forum. He will handle it as he sees fit, IMO.
south central Wisconsin
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Offline Jay C. White Cloud

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Re: Timber Frame Provider UK
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2013, 09:52:34 am »
I hope Jeff will allow this conversation to take a natural course and for others with an opinions about "Stick built" manufacturers (not individual carpenters that use "light frame construction,")comparing there product to traditional timber frames, will share it.  I see way to many of the "manufacture home," products not even close in quality to what carpenters in the field build.  Thank you.
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Online beenthere

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Re: Timber Frame Provider UK
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2013, 11:03:51 am »
Quote
I see way to many of the "manufacture home," products not even close in quality to what carpenters in the field build.

And I've seen "manufactured homes" that have very high quality (not including yet not exclusive of mobile homes). But it is mainly about our "opinions", which are subjective.
south central Wisconsin
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Offline Jay C. White Cloud

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Re: Timber Frame Provider UK
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2013, 02:03:21 pm »
To be clear, (of definition and description,) I am speaking of factory built residential architecture.  I am also averaging what I have seen in the complete market, not just the USA or Canada, (which by the way probably makes some of the best in the world, out side of some of the Northern European models-i.e. Norway, Denmark, Germany, etc.) as a comparison, when I made my statement.

As far as opinion, of course there is some of that in there, which goes with out saying.  However most of my observation/conclusions are based on clear architectural/engineering analysis of the to framing styles/systems as compared side by side.  In that instances there is no comparison.  A modern hand cut timber frame, with even average thermal/mechanical envelope/infill systems is going to be far superior to what a factory manufactured architecture offers. I don't believe that is an opinion but a simple fact of mass and structural system dynamic within the two architectural forms.  I do make every effort to keep subjectivity out of my statements whenever possible.  I own and state, when something is my opinion; other wise my conclusions are more analytical/historical fact than opinion.

Regards,

Jay

"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Offline giant splinter

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Re: Timber Frame Provider UK
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2013, 03:06:32 pm »
Andrew Jackson's post and the Rob Roy Homes is misleading, just not what the rest of the world recognizes as Timber Framing. Just make one wonder if Andrew and Rob really understand what Timber Framing is really all about, after looking over the website I saw no evidence of true TF or even Hybrid TF. Perhaps Jeff will tackle this post or someone else will discover that they may in fact be Timber Framers and have posted the wrong link.
Till it gets cleared up I don,t think its worth the effort to look into it any further, or for any of the true Timber Framers to lose any sleep over what might just be a mistake. smiley_sun Keep your sunglasses handy...... the future is going to be bright.
roll with it

Offline Jay C. White Cloud

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Re: Timber Frame Provider UK
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2013, 05:28:06 pm »
Thank's Giant Splinter,

I think, especially in the North American market the future is very bright indeed!  The issue is I am involved in many global markets as a timber wright and teacher/facilitator, and there are some places that these "Rob Roy" kind of companies control a lions share of the work and now are knowingly advertising in markets that are clearly for timber framing.   I in the beginning thought the same as you, "just a mistake," or just an error in semantics, but as time has passed, I've learned that is not the case.

The Australian market is a perfect example.  They know, full well, what they build, and what a timber frame is.  Some of the companies, knowingly mislead consumers.  This is why, whenever one of their representatives show up on a forum, (which is happening more often,) I confront the facts immediately.  Yet have I been engaged in any meaningful  conversation about their products, other than by sales department obfuscation, which seems to be their tactic of choice when dealing with the consumer as well.  I have asked countless times, if any of them actually produce a timber frame, even a post and beam frame, please present their literature about it.

Thanks again for you encouragement.

Regards,  Jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Offline rickb140

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Re: Timber Frame Provider UK
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2013, 03:59:15 am »
Rob Roy homes are not timber frames and do not provide that service in any way!!!   smiley_furious  These are not timber frames in the North American market or any other for that matter.  These are prefab Stick Built structures.  Again, not timber frames,  I'm dealing with this from the Australian market as well.   Very confusing.
Ok Thanks for your service !!