tracks or tires

[Tree_Farmer]

Could anyone out there explain the pros and cons of tracks versus tires on skidders?  

[Bill Johnson]

I've been debating about whether I should say anything here or not. My field of expertise is not operational logging, but I would say based on what I've seen is that if you are looking for a machine that will let you work in fragile sites then a tracked machine is better than wheels.
The draw back there is tracks are harder to turn then wheels as anyone who has seen where a D8 has turned can attest to.
I give this some more thought to-night and may have more to add tomorrow.
Bill

[Larch Man]

The pros and cons depend on several factors relating to the job they are working on such as time of year, slope, and desired production level to name a few. Wheeled skidders are faster so production would be a bit better with them. They also result in less soil movement on dry ground. Track machines may access steeper terrain and can be used for other purposes like road building or making drain dips in existing roads and installing culverts. Hope this helps.

[L. Wakefield]

   This is a valuable discussion to me. I am a defender of tracked vehicles (but I like it best when the tracks don't fall off!!!) My husband likes wheeled vehicles, but I've never seen one he couldn't get stuck..course, if I buy one with tracks, he'll view it as a challenge, and he'll get it stuck too. (Did I tell you I also like winches?)

[Forester Frank]

Another pro for tracks - they break up a lot of the limbs and other woody debris associated with logging.

What's a-track-tive about tires is theyare easy to change when soil/ground conditions change. Wide tires for swamps. Add chains for snow and hills. Normal tires for level terrain.

Hard to have a flat tire with a track though.

More comments welcome. Right Jeff?

[Tree_Farmer]

I picture tires constantly getting punctures from sharp narrow  stumps.  
I canīt picture putting on tracks that somehow fall off.   I also donīt have much knowledge of smallish tracked cheap skidders that I might rent for a month or so.   How can I find out what is available.  I almost never see tracked vehicles for sale just relatively expensive skidders with tires. I want to harvest some trees on steep hillsides and get them to a bandsaw.   I donīt want to to do any more damage to the residual stand than necessary.

[Ron Wenrich]

I don't know of anyone using dozers, anymore.  Most commercial guys have gone the skidder route.  Thrown tracks are the main reason.

Skidders are also faster and more mobile.  

I used to be a choker setter in Oregon.  We used D-6 to D-8 to skid logs during road building and in areas where the terrain wasn't too bad.  We didn't have any skidders.  The rest was logged using balloon, high lead, and yarders.  I believe the dozers could winch better than the skidders.  Besides, the skidder was an extra piece of equipment.

[Jeff Brokaw]

How about a machine that does both. We used to have a little skidsteer Bobcat that you could put tracks on. It had a fellerbuncher on the front. Might be an option for a landowner wanting to do his own work. (minus the feller buncher)

[Ron Scott]

To check what might be available for your needs check out one of the Timber Producer Magazines in your state such as the Michigan-Wisconsin Timber Producer. They have lists of equipment available for sale, lease, rent or whatever. You should be able to find such a magazine in the library. Also check with the nearest logging equipment dealer in your area. They often have lease or rental programs.
Rubber tires are now perfected such that they are the skidder of production and efficiency in most commercial operations. Crawlers usually take on the "bull work" of construction work such as roads, landings etc and the "clean-up" part of the job. Rubber tired skidders or forwarders "roll" the wood to the landings with more production over a days work.  Tire technology has allowed the rubber tire to take over.

[Gordon]

Both machines have their advantages and disadvantages. The tires now adays are pretty darn tough and can take alot of punishment. Alot depends on how much your going to haul out and what the conditions of the site are. You'll get more production out of a skidder than a dozer but you can put that dozer alot of places that I'd never put a skidder.

I use a Kubota tractor and a skidding winch. It's a good setup for my use and my area. It's an option that you might want to look into  as well.
Gordon

[Jeff]

JG, have you got any pics of your setup?

[Gordon]

No I don't have a digital camera at this point. Got one for Christmas but the software wouldn't load properly so I had to return it. I haven't gotten around to get another one yet.

But over the years I've added a belly plate, brush bars, and grates over the cab windows. It serves my purposes well. Where I live there are no hills to speak of. So I can't say how it would work on steeper hills.

Are you trying to fool me it seems every time I log onto this forum I get a different screen.
Keep up the good work the new look is very

[Russ]

Ever see a dozer slide down a hill on a couple old logs,the bigger to haul the more out of control. If it happens to you and you live you might switch to something with tires. Second I heard that the primary drives on dozers are designed for pushing and don't hold up when pulling. Third replacing tires is less money than tracks. They even make excavators with tires now. Guess you can tell I'm not a track fan.
http://www.shaysnet.com/~smtn/frmmills.htm

[ButtonRock]

   Tracks provide much more traction and at the same time produce shallower ruts in sensitive areas. Most forwarders these days offer tracks that you put on the rear rires as an option. Out here it is the forwarder with tracks that gets the most work. Dozers are to heavy and make to much of a mess while the light forwarders w/tracks are the choice for environmently friendly folk. The reason you don't see dozers pulling logs out here is because a new bottom on a dozer(chains,pads, rollers, idlers and sprockets) will outcost several sets of tires with chains. Hard to believe isn't it.

[hosslog]

Tree Farmer, My son has a Farmi winch mounted on a 4 wheel drive tractor that he uses. Mounts on the 3 point hitch and runs off the pto. The winch is on it's second tractor , as I recall he paid around 3500$ for the winch but they make smaller ones.

[woodmills1]

I have a case 310 doxzer and a metavic behind my tractor.  metavic forwarder is much easier with not very much damage to forest floor.  however it is small so sometimes only the dozer will do.  I wanted to post to this thread to add to the thrown track idea.   knock off a track and it will ruin your whole day.   seems that the pin is always on the bottom  and even with the relatively small machine I have stretching the track back into place takes much force and some real planning about how to get enough force.  my favorite is to rig a bar and then chain it to my one ton to pull it into place

[Bro. Noble]

Jeff,

How satisfactory was your Bobcat with a feller buncher?  We need to thin a pine plantation someday and are considering doing it ourselves mechanically.  We had three different crews work on it last time and none pleased us.  One was destructive, one was crooked and the other was both.
How big of stuff could it handle (diameterr and heighth)?  How available and how expensive are used ones?  How do they compare to the three wheeled Bell harvestors?

Noble

[L. Wakefield]

   Yeah, I was just re-reading this thread too. I can't picture a Bobcat with enough beans to merit trax, let alone feller/buncher work. Do you have a pic of this beast?  lw