Author Topic: Steel prices (Read 2698 times)

Ron Wenrich · « **on:** March 16, 2004, 04:38:20 pm »

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but steel prices are really starting to go up. Our banding prices have gone up and a shaker that we were going to get for $2700 has gone up to $3200, just from the steel. Scrap steel has gone up and junk cars are now worth 3 times more then a few months ago.

That should mean an increase in the price of teeth, blades, equipment and DanG near anything else that uses steel.

I thought that bringing down the tariffs would make it cheaper?

C_Miller · « **Reply #1 on:** March 16, 2004, 04:46:13 pm »

It did until the competition went away. Now make room for the Chinese steel.

C

neslrite · « **Reply #2 on:** March 16, 2004, 05:20:43 pm »

I was ordering some steel this morning and was shocked that I had to pay 40% more than I paid six weeks ago for the same product. I knew that metal prices have been on the rise but 40% is alot and he expects it to go higher.
The reason, my supplier said was the Chinese. Apparently the pacific rim economy is booming and they are buying up all the raw materials they can plus they stopped shipping steel to the US. One interesting figure he threw out was that they are building 2 or 3 new plants that will be online next year and even with this added capacity the demand from China will exceed the entire world supply in 2005.
Just some food for thought on the China thing.
neslrite

Frickman · « **Reply #3 on:** March 16, 2004, 06:17:53 pm »

A hay customer of mine is the office manager at a steel supply and fabrication company. She was telling me last week that she can't even find certain items at any cost. Her boss is not guaranteeing any bids for longer than 24 hours, as prices are rising so fast. As I drive around I wonder something though. At the current prices for scrap, why do some folks still hold onto junk cars and other stuff when they can turn it into cash? I even know of auto wreckers, who would be more familiar with the markets, stockpile rusted up hulks for years. You don't even need a crusher, as there is at least one local feller who will bring in his crusher, highlift, and crew, and haul the scrap away. He even sorts out the copper and aluminum. All you have to do is get out of his way and collect the checks. Now I'm not talking about collector's items here, just worthless scrap. Anyone have any ideas?

J_T · « **Reply #4 on:** March 16, 2004, 07:05:28 pm »

Yep sold 120ton scrap last year qit put in a sawmill. Could told you scrap would go up every time I quit a buisness it booms. Most of the bigger yards will sell their million tons plus before the little guy gets much of a raise. A lot of people think their old junk car is worth 300 bucks and will hold on. By the time ever one gets their cut and makes expences scrap buisness will still be a tuff one I think.It reminds me of the walnut tree.Every one thinks theirs is worth a mint .Rather have my sawmill.

DanG · « **Reply #5 on:** March 16, 2004, 07:39:26 pm »

Well, I don't feel so bad, now, about leaving the "row of shame" sitting in the edge of my pasture for so long.

I'll be sure to mention this thread, when I haul them off to the junkyard.

J_T · « **Reply #6 on:** March 16, 2004, 07:56:01 pm »

Row of shame

I lined all my autos up and cleaned up the place called up a inshurance co about house inshurance they came out alooked . Called them later an they turned me down said I had to many junk autos sitting around. Guess what they were the ones we were driving. Beat that for a row of shame .

Haytrader · « **Reply #7 on:** March 16, 2004, 08:01:40 pm »

I have been teeter tottering on the fence whether to build a big stock trailer and when I heard iron was goin up, I decided it was time to sing or put up the song book.

My place to buy has a scrap pile where what ever is in it costs 17 cents a pound. Ya never know what will be there but sometimes ya luck out and some of the stuff ya need is there. Granted, it is reject, but most times that will work. They are paying $110/ton for prepared iron.
I dropped a couple bucks on a new Miller wire welder while I was at it. A guy needs a new toy, er I mean tool every once in a while.

pasbuild · « **Reply #8 on:** March 16, 2004, 08:31:31 pm »

Saw a commentary on the news last night saying that two local companies have had to lay off employees because they can't get enough steel to keep them going.

L. Wakefield · « **Reply #9 on:** March 17, 2004, 03:02:26 am »

well, to me that's moderstely good news inasmuch as just a bit ago I was having to PAY to have junked cars taken away. I got 1 or 2 to go. lw

Haytrader · « **Reply #10 on:** March 17, 2004, 04:21:28 am »

LW,

Don't crush a rebuilder......

I looked on E Bay for a 1963 Chevy like I used to have.....
Man, I shouda kept it instead of trading it off.

ElectricAl · « **Reply #11 on:** March 17, 2004, 04:54:22 am »

Last summer 1/2" x 20' rebar was $2 per stick.

Two weeks ago our concrete guy called and said the price was up to $3.25, and asked how many we were going to need this summer. Three days later we ordered 900 rods @ $3.50 each. Now they are $4.50 and expected to go to $5

Sam · « **Reply #12 on:** March 17, 2004, 01:21:17 pm »

Steel prices are really bad-some of ours have already doubled and we have been warned that it might get to the point that we won't be able to get certain items at all.

Even down to the smallest steel parts we use, they have went up. When you build machines made almost entirely out of steel and steel components, it doesn't take long to eat away your profit. I've heard that they are expecting this to last a good 3 years and even then the prices will never go back to what they were.

I highly recommend that anyone planning to purchase equipment soon (from any company), get it on order and your price locked in real soon!

etat · « **Reply #13 on:** March 17, 2004, 03:46:37 pm »

Thanks to this thread, I have been VERY careful about my pricing on metal roofs! I know a few contractors that practically lost their butt a few years ago when lumber prices jumped so dramatically and they stuck to their word on work they had sold. I almost always have priced jobs complete price including furnishing materials and labor, in the past week I have given estimates on 4 reroofs, replacing shingleswith commercial painted metal. These jobs I have priced cost of labor plus. I called my supplier and indeed he did tell me to expect to be paying WAY more. Thanks for bringing this up. This has very well saved me a substantial amount of monies. Again, Thanks.......

Jeff · « **Reply #14 on:** March 17, 2004, 04:13:59 pm »

If yer real thankful you could always haul a compressor up and some guns and help me with my new roof this summer. ;)I aint looking forward to roofin. Oh my knees. Oh my back.

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #15 on:** March 17, 2004, 04:22:33 pm »

I may need to replace the roof on our house, before we sell it. Which is a better deal, shingles or steel. For discussion's sake, let's ignore the rise in steel prices for now. Just talk about one versus the other.

etat · « **Reply #16 on:** March 17, 2004, 05:07:20 pm »

Shingles are much cheaper. They are also my preference for this area. Most shingles I install, but not all are thirty year dimensional. Since you asked about reroofing that's what I'll stick too. I ALWAYS, tear off the existing roof to the wood. With shingles I use #15 tarpaper, all new pipe flanges, and usually install full length ridge vent. This allows the house to breath better, helps keep moisture and mold down inside the attic, helps get excess heat out of the attic in the hot summer time, and will add appx. 4 to 6 years to the life of the shingles. Snow and ice shield on the lower parts of the house are pretty much unneeded in this area as we don't usually have problems with ice dams.

Metal roofs I install commercial grade painted metal, either high groove of low groove. Most work on houses is low groove as this looks better on houses. Fastened down with screws with neoprene washers. Not very many around here are interested in seamless metal roofs.

Installing metal on houses my price has been running appx. 85 to 95 percent more including materials.. In installing metal on houses I include using #30 tarpaper over the existing deck, then install 1 by 4 or 2 by 4 laths to get some air space between the metal, which is prone to sweat, and the decking. This air space allows moisture between the metal and the deck to dissipate. Again, before installing the metal I cut the top of the ridge to allow venting at the ridge. And install edge metal around the house to hide the laths, and make everything blend in.

The house we are starting tomorrow will have between 80 and one hundred squares. It has a attached two story 3 car garage with dormers, is spread out every which way, and the main part of the house is appx. 36 feet to even get on the roof! I roof a few big houses each year, but this is the biggest one we have tackled in over 4 years. I'm a dreading it. We will be installing 40 year shingles, with all copper flashing. Charging enough to set up ALL safety equipment and let them know I've been there!!!!!

Jeff, if you'll furnish transportation and lodging we might just come on down and slide you a roof on!!!!! Seriously if you do it yourself and have a compressor I've got a few extra roofing guns that shoot between 1 inch to 1 3/4 inch roofing nails. I'd be glad to send and loan you one. (Don't use staples, they will not hold the shingles as well)

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #17 on:** March 17, 2004, 05:18:22 pm »

Thanks for the info, CK

J_T · « **Reply #18 on:** March 17, 2004, 06:20:41 pm »

CK I need to borrow about 15sq of shingles same lot no please

etat · « **Reply #19 on:** March 17, 2004, 06:43:05 pm »

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #20 on:** March 18, 2004, 03:00:34 am »

I have a steel roof on my house and garage. It was put on post WWII and is still in good shape. It doesn't look as good as the new ones they have come out with. They are even coming out with steel that looks pretty much like shingles or terra cotta.

If I were to replace, I'd look to steel. But, you may want to check your resale value. Some improvements can't be repaid through an increase in home value.

I always like when Sears calls and wants to know when my roof was last put on. I tell them about 1945. I then say its a tin roof, and they say good-bye.

pappy · « **Reply #21 on:** March 18, 2004, 07:16:59 am »

,

You just the feller I need to talk to.

I'm in the process of building a log camp down on the ole back forty and I'm at odds of what kind of ruff I should be using.

I would prefer to use steel cause the snow will slide right off as the pitch will be 12 X 12.( we average 120 inches per winter)

Some guys in these parts don't like steel cause they say it condensates. We get temp swings from minus 40 up to plus 95 summer /winter.

My cathedral ceiling/roof will be round log purlins with 3/4" pine T & G.

Now I'm not sure;

Was thinking of tar paper then 2" blue Styrofoam, 3/4" strapping then the steel.

OR

tar paper, 2 X 4's on edge, then R 11 Owens and Corning (less vapor seal) then strapping and then steel.

Both ways will have soffit and ridge vents.

I've heard one guy say he had condensation problems and rectified it buy removing the steel roofing and placing more fiberglass so it would be touching the steel and it stopped the dripping inside. It was an insulated steel framed and sided building with sheet rock on the ceiling and walls. This seems counter productive to me as there is no more venting.

Just one more question-- when screwing down the steel roofing where is the best place for the screws on top of the ridge or in the valley.

Thanks for any help,
termite

etat · « **Reply #22 on:** March 18, 2004, 07:43:01 am »

termite, I like your first answer a lot. You don't want yer insulation soakin up moisture. With the tarpaper, the foam, and then laths to keep it up off of the foam a bit, and a ridge vent the moisture will dissapate with no problem. 12/12 pitch is good, shouldn't ever have a problem with leaks. I use a screw with a double steel washer and a neophrene washer. The double steel washer allows the screw to tighten better without twistin the neophrene, don't overtighten. The screws go down on the flats of the metal, not the ridges. This holds the metal tight. They make a seperate screw for lapjoints on high ridge commercial metal, you shouldn't be needing to screw through the joints. This is right the opposite of the old v-groove metal when you always fastened through the highs on the tin. I'll try to get a picture later of proper screw placement.

rebocardo · « **Reply #23 on:** March 21, 2004, 10:33:16 am »

I needed steel to build some new truck bumpers and a bed. The steel prices were quite the shocker in the Atlanta area. I found a guy selling used steel from pallet systems. Not the exact size I need, but, the price was right.

mhasel · « **Reply #24 on:** March 21, 2004, 07:12:29 pm »

Well if it helps I'm glad to know things in my area just hadn't gone up, I purchased some steel about a months ago, noting fancy just channel and angle and was surprised when I got the bill from my supplier, had been intending to call and ask why. The 40% was just about true, yet another reason we can thank the overseas markets.

Steel mills in the country are struggling or shutting down putting Americans out of work and they are building new mills overseas while we continue to import their goods. What is wrong with this picture?

??

Mike

etat · « **Reply #25 on:** March 21, 2004, 07:42:59 pm »

Here's what'll happen. You get ya a few zillion dollars worth of financing and you go into a town somewhere and buy up the land. Then when you start working on permits and such by the time you get through fighting the town, the government, the politicians, and the environmentalist you done spent most of yer zillion dollars.

Somehow all that needs to give. We oughta be producing our own steel, but who you gonna get to invest knowing all that.

J_T · « **Reply #26 on:** March 21, 2004, 08:29:17 pm »

CK not long ago a Co wanted to put a tire grinding plant in South Fulton . They were going to recycle old tires and make electrecty. You just told what happened they built else where .But we got lots chicken houses

Corley5 · « **Reply #27 on:** March 22, 2004, 07:16:42 am »

We always put the screws in the ribs when the metal's on a roof. Screw it on the flats when it's used on walls. It's more apt to leak especially in climates where you may get ice dams on the eaves if it's screwed on the flats. The neoprene washers will deteriorate and let water in. You won't see a metal roof around here that's screwed in the flats.

etat · « **Reply #28 on:** March 22, 2004, 07:49:49 am »

Corley, that would have to be a regionial thing that I am unaware of.

Links manufacturers recommendations

http://www.metalroofingwholesalers.com/installation.htm

http://18004654533.com/Howto/metal.asp

Corley5 · « **Reply #29 on:** March 22, 2004, 08:08:27 am »

page CK. I wouldn't want my roof screwed down like they show. Where water always runs off I'm sure it'd be fine and maybe better than in the ribs but where water may lay under snow and ice it'd leak after a few years. I've had to replace some screws along my eaves and need to replace a few more this summer as I've had some drips from water backup. It's nothing that a few minutes with the snow rake and new screws later on doesn't cure. The roof's ten years old now so I guess replacing a few screws isn't too bad. Metal roofs are the best as far I'm concerned and more and more people are coming to that conclusion. It's great when the temp gets around 35 and the snow just slides off. No shoveling required

Patty · « **Reply #30 on:** March 24, 2004, 01:46:39 pm »

We tried to have Morton put a steel roof on the last house we built, and they refused

saying we had to many ridges and valleys. I think steel is definetly the way to go if you can.
Speaking of steel prices, I checked into buying some T-fence posts at the local farm store. Holy Cow!

They said prices were going up about twice a week right now. The cost for an 8' post was $3.59... EACH! Guess we'll be looking at farm auctions instead.

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #31 on:** March 24, 2004, 01:54:52 pm »

I talked to our banding supplier the other day. He said he has had 4 increases in price since January. They result in about a 50% increase.

He normally buys in truckload lots. They won't guarantee a price. They say there will probably be a price increase before they can deliver.

Larry · « **Reply #32 on:** March 24, 2004, 03:05:45 pm »

Lot of difference in quality of metal roof coatings. Kynar (sp?) is the best and most expensive. We had Morton use it on our shed about 15 years ago and it is holding up extremely well. Built another building last year and used metal from Central States. Not as good as Kynar but still has a 25 year guarantee.

When we built our house, we decided to put on a standing seam metal roof that we had seen on a few commercial buildings. The roof doesn’t have any exposed metal fasteners. It has a 50-year guarantee. We like it well but it is very high priced installed as it is labor intensive to install.

When I build our next house, I am going back to the Kynar.

Thanks for the tip on the price of steel. I still need a bunch of it for another building. My supplier will store it forever if I pay up front so gonna get my order in next week.

Norm · « **Reply #33 on:** March 25, 2004, 03:49:54 am »

We need to put up some new fencing soon so called for pricing on t-posts. Guy said the price had gone up twice last week and once this week. Yeah those steel tariffs were a good idea.

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #34 on:** April 15, 2004, 03:11:21 pm »

Yesterday I was talking to a farmer who was going to take his steel roof off of his chicken house. Some guys would come in and take it off and pay for the scrap. He said they were too cheap, and he was going to do it himself and he would show them.

Today he says the price of scrap has dropped, and some places aren't accepting. Seems that the Chinese demand has dropped for US scrap. Its dropped 10% in the past couple of weeks, and authorities think other steel prices will soon follow.

I guess he should have taken the roofers up on the offer. Seems that hindsight is 20/20.

Timbo · « **Reply #35 on:** April 15, 2004, 04:31:04 pm »

I got pounded with egg size hail last week. I must put a new roof .I was wanting to put steel painted green. Prices will be up. Jeff it is easier than shingles not as bad on the knees.
Also lost my vinyl siding also. I want to put log cabin siding of yellow pine.
Can someone tell me what to preserve or stain this wood with. I want it to have the wood look for as long as possible.

Jeff · « **Reply #36 on:** April 15, 2004, 04:33:29 pm »

Up here the log home builders mostly swear by this stuff. Its what we put on the cabin in da U.P.

http://www.nam.sikkens.com/index-english.cfm

Tom · « **Reply #37 on:** April 15, 2004, 04:40:49 pm »

Ron,
I wonder if the problem with scrap U.S. steel might be that it became inundated with "cheap" chinese steel and the chinese want better quality. ..not realizing that they were the ones that produced what they were getting back.

Jeff · « **Reply #38 on:** April 15, 2004, 04:53:03 pm »

Tim, this is what the cabin looks like. About 7 years on the cedar.

Den Socling · « **Reply #39 on:** April 15, 2004, 05:41:31 pm »

Talk about a kick in the butt, the 4 pieces of 1/4" SS that I need for a 14' vacuum chamber cost less than $2000 last fall. Now those 4 cost $5000. And the mills won't guarantee prices more than 3 days. How am I suppose to get a price, calculate for a proposal, get an order and get back to order the steel in three days>

It's crazy!

A friend told me the other day that containers going back to China are being loaded with scrap metal. Your recycled junk can be hauled the whole way to some Chinese mill and be reclaimed for less than here.

And there is a staging area along the highway near me that is loading veneer logs into containers for the return trip to ports unknown that don't care about the green wood importation rules that we have to deal with. Man, we have to level this playing field.

old3dogg · « **Reply #40 on:** April 15, 2004, 07:10:26 pm »

Well! At least I aint the only guy mad at the Chinese!
All they took from me was my job.
We tried to set up a mill to make pallet wood.We found out that we couldnt buy pole wood because it was all being chipped into containers and shipped to china

?
We will all be working at wal mart before long.

timberbeast · « **Reply #41 on:** April 15, 2004, 11:42:36 pm »

I work for an investment casting company in the machining department. The price of our raw steel has gone up over 40%, and, yep it's because China is buying it as fast as they can. There are lots of investment casters in the U.S. now who are just brokering Chinese castings, due to labor costs. We hope that in the long run, our quality will win out over the price differences, and so far it's working, we're actually hiring, a lot.
If you're riding a newer Harley, you're probably shifting with, steering with, and resting your feet on components that my crew machined and my company cast.

rebocardo · « **Reply #42 on:** April 17, 2004, 05:56:24 pm »

> I may need to replace the roof on our house,
> before we sell it

The cheapest shingles from Home Depot, you will never recoup the costs of steel or 80 MPH+ 30 year shingles.

Though I agree with what someone else posted, always take off the old shingles. I know most local laws allow up to three layers, but, that is an awful amount of weight and you can never do a long lasting job by nailing one layer over another. Especially, since you can not renail broken boards etc.

I would not mind someone putting up the cheapest asphalt singles they could buy, I would mind a lousy job doing it renailed it over bad material that will leak later.

Corley5 · « **Reply #43 on:** April 17, 2004, 06:11:08 pm »

I was told the other day that Chinese buyers are coming into the scrap yard in Gaylord once a week and buying everything they've collected since the last visit. It get's loaded on trucks and is hauled to a rail yard and then makes its way to a Mississippi river port where it's loaded onto barges for the trip to New Orleans where it gets put on a ship for China. Seems like Japan did something similar prior to the 1940s

Captain · « **Reply #44 on:** April 18, 2004, 04:43:21 am »

I had two "parts" cars removed from the property yesterday as they have given up all that they could for me over the years., I was having a conversation about scrap steel prices with the owner of the salvage company. He said that the scrap prices have peaked here in Massachusetts and are going down. They peaked about 2 weeks ago and are down 25% (peaked at $100/ton, now are $75/ton)

Captain

Jeff · « **Reply #45 on:** April 22, 2004, 03:52:07 pm »

I just got an estimate on steel roof. My roof is about 21 square. $8500 ouch. Think I better shingle myself.

Furby · « **Reply #46 on:** April 22, 2004, 05:13:37 pm »

I think you better shingle your ROOF!

Ah ha! Now I know what that piggy roast is REALLY for!

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Author Topic: Steel prices (Read 2698 times)