Author Topic: Made In China - dont bet your life on it (Read 2556 times)

rebocardo · « **on:** March 12, 2004, 05:05:38 pm »

Here is a "made in China" clamp that broke before it even reached torque spec. I was using it on a 1/4 inch cable I use for tree work and winching.

I use a beam torque wrench because it is more accurate then a click type, especially on the low end, this clamp just kept yielding until it snapped. Did not even get to 15 pounds. Another reason to use at least three instead of the min. two and why

"You should not bet your life on anything "Made In China""!

HORSELOGGER · « **Reply #1 on:** March 12, 2004, 05:32:04 pm »

I always wondered what happened to all those Yugos I used to see. Guess they got melted down into "chinesium"

etat · « **Reply #2 on:** March 12, 2004, 05:52:21 pm »

rebocardo, the gas powered winches on my laddervators that we use to send up shingles also uses 1/4 inch cable. I gave up on those types of clamps long ago. I always use the kind that the cable slips through, and then you clamp a crimp in them. I usually double these up, and have never had one to fail. It's not any fun at all to be sending 3 bundles of architect shingles up a laddervator and have something to fail. I have had brake failure a couple of times. When it hits, it warps the frame and carriage that runs up the ladder, every time. I have also had clamp failure, and again catastrophic loss of control. One of my number one rules when running the laddervator, is HANDS OFF, everything except the handles that control the up and down, and DO NOT STAND UNDER The CARRIAGE while it is up and loaded or not. You can find these crimp type connectors at better hardware stores, and sometimes Lowe's. It takes a special tool to make the crimp.

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #3 on:** March 12, 2004, 05:56:10 pm »

I've done my share of clamping and crimping. Don'T believe I have seen the type you mentioned CK. Got a pic???

etat · « **Reply #4 on:** March 12, 2004, 06:33:14 pm »

Sure ya have FLA. Just you're probably used to seein them on bigger cables on bought winches and things!

Upon checking I found that I was using one clamp, no two as I thought. This cable was put on this winch appx. 2 years ago and I think it would be safe to say it has carried thousands of squares of shingles up the ladder, three bundles at a time. I am NOT exagerating. You can see
where I used the tool to make multiple crimps, and also installed a cable protector thingy where I hook it to the top of the ladder.

This winch clamps to the back of a special ladder and the cable strings through a series of pullies, and through a pulley on the carrage, and then back up to the top of the ladder where it hooks. I can bolt and brace enough sections together to send shingles up as high as 40 feet. I also have a 16 foot lightweight section that we use for small houses.

DanG · « **Reply #5 on:** March 12, 2004, 06:42:47 pm »

I use those little clamps, but I give them a real test when putting them on.

If I can wring it off with the ratchet, I toss it.

I had real trouble with the ones from Lowe's, but I bought a sackfull from Mr. Hootie, and haven't broken one since.

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #6 on:** March 12, 2004, 07:22:38 pm »

OK, ya got me

We used them at the Power Co.

Didn't know Lowe's carried them. HATE to have to drive to Mr. Hootie's for a bag full

etat · « **Reply #7 on:** March 12, 2004, 07:37:13 pm »

Just caught ya off guard FLa. that's all, just caught ya off guard. It would be pretty easy to duplicate that crimping tool with some pieces of steel and a vise.

DanG · « **Reply #8 on:** March 12, 2004, 08:53:45 pm »

Harold, I was talking about the little clamps in Rebo's post, not the swages like CK has.

etat · « **Reply #9 on:** March 12, 2004, 09:16:18 pm »

SWAGES, so that's what them little clamp things are called. I always thought it was called the 'little thingie what that you threaded the cable through a couple a times and then clamped and crimped it'. That's probably the ONLY thing I like about Lowes. When you are a huntin something that you know what you're hunting but don't know what it's called in there you're usually dealing with someone that wouldn't know what you were talking about even if you did know what you were talking about!!!!!

Duane_Moore · « **Reply #10 on:** March 12, 2004, 09:25:33 pm »

:DI think them is ( chingaderos) u no whatyamacallit

Duh---Duane

shopteacher · « **Reply #11 on:** March 13, 2004, 03:59:51 am »

The good ones are made by Nicopress. I'd be very careful about trying to make you own crimper. The Nicopress crimper comes with a Gage to determine if the crimp is the right size and depending on cable size as to how many crimps need to be put on a sleeve. The sleeves also come in different material composition such as aluminum, copper , zinc plated copper (steel cable), tin plated copper(SS aircraft
cable). I have crimpers from 1/16 to 7/32". The last crimper I bought was for 7/32" cable and run $119.00 and made in the good old USA.
www.nicopress.com

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #12 on:** March 13, 2004, 04:11:28 am »

Mr. Hootie Don'T got "crimps"

That's what we called 'em at the power co. That Nicopress thingy was near outlawwed at the power co. Problem was, we needed to use the nicopress tool, on occasion.

We used a "Burndy" hydraulic crimpin tool, both, hand pumped and electric-hydraulic pumped

I switched to re-braiding all the cables we use, BEFORE clamping. I put a post on here, waaaaaayy back, showing how to unwind a cable and re-winding it as if it were new, and then clamping. Puts a LOT more strain at the loop or splice, instead of all of the strain on the clamp. Yood be susprised how strong that makes the joint.

shopteacher · « **Reply #13 on:** March 13, 2004, 04:25:59 am »

FDH, those hydraulic crimpers are real nice, but you got to dig a lot deeper in the pocket for them.

My dad made his living as a rope and cable spicer. Started in the Baltimore shipyards as a rigger and moved to Pa. to work in the steel mills. Started splicing the big hauser hemp rope on steam engines and mostly spice wire rope crane cable. I remember as a small kid his shop at home where he and another rigger spliced cable at night as a part time business. Very hard work splicing 1 1/4" and 1 1/2" wire rope.

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #14 on:** March 13, 2004, 04:30:46 am »

Yup

old3dogg · « **Reply #15 on:** March 13, 2004, 04:50:04 am »

Made In China! Indeed!
That is the whole reason I have to go "sign up" next week.
I thought slave labour was illegal?

shopteacher · « **Reply #16 on:** March 13, 2004, 05:10:30 am »

I've really think a tariff equal to the difference of what minimum wage here is and the country exporting to this country should be levied and paid to those workers. Not only would that elevate those workers to above slave status, but would put this country on a more level playing field. I also believe there should have to be documentation of those factories abiding to some environmental policies. Here to we could cut back on the cost of goods as long as you don't mind living along side Love Canal. I don't really blame manufactures for going overseas today, it's the only way they can compete with the import markets. However, it's killing the jobs and opportunities here. If all were equal in wages and manufacturing restrictions there is no place or no people who can produce a better product than the USA. That folks is my thoughts on that.

D._Frederick · « **Reply #17 on:** March 13, 2004, 08:05:26 am »

Our newspaper ran an article about fiber optics being farmed out to China, the girls working on them got $60 a month plus room and board. We can't compete with that , the playing field is not level.

shopteacher · « **Reply #18 on:** March 13, 2004, 08:45:46 am »

Well D. Fredricks that's not entirely true. Remember WPA, CCC, the depression all we have to do is go back to living like that. 60 dollars a month would seem like a fortune.

old3dogg · « **Reply #19 on:** March 13, 2004, 08:47:04 am »

We,the USA,impose tariffs againts Canada but allow countrys like China to dump their junk on us.The sad part is that we keep shopping at places like Wal Mart.
$60 bucks a month! Can you live on that?
I know it is real hard to buy products made here but I am one who still looks at the label to see where it was made.
Shopteacher.
Dont blame manufactures here in the USA for going overseas?
Bull s*&t! It boils down to one thing.GREED!
I just hope that all the junk wood products that we buy from "over seas" start falling apart from poor manufacturing and we all wake up and say"Gee! We should have paid the extra $5 bucks and bought the good stuff!
We are heading to be a third world country and fast!
Mike.

old3dogg · « **Reply #20 on:** March 13, 2004, 09:05:27 am »

a l'application.
active par la chaleur du corps.
pouder satinee.
antisudorifique et desodorisant.

anyone care to tell what kind of deo Im using?
It was made in the USA!

shopteacher · « **Reply #21 on:** March 13, 2004, 09:12:12 am »

Well 3dog, I ain't saying I like the fact that business is going overseas, but let face it, if the American public supported US products they wouldn't be going there in the first place. Tell me what US brand of shirt or TV set I can buy? The American public is not one to go without. Their want for more and more for their money and more and more money and benefits for their labor and lack of support for US product has brought about the state were in.
Businesses are not in the business of providing jobs to the public, but rather to make a profit. If they don't show a profit investors pull their capital out and the business folds or is consumed by a competitor.
In 1985 the steel mill I worked in shutdown due to foreign imports, so no I don't like to see business move overseas and I don't like buying imports.
Wood products and furniture is a recent attack, what about the autoworkers, steelworkers, appliance manufactures, telecommunications, machinery manufactures, clothing industry even agriculture. Many of the huge food producing farms are owned by foreign investors. Where were we when all these industries and jobs were on the line.
So when I say I can't blame a business of moving out, it's either that or die.
Look at Powermatic, Delta & Oliver. All great names in woodworking machinery and now mostly made overseas.

Mark M · « **Reply #22 on:** March 13, 2004, 09:46:27 am »

There would be a lot of problems if we try to raise the standard of living the people in China to anywhere near ours. I have a friend in the mining business who visits his company's mine in China several times a year and I asked him why didn't they just get some big machines for mining instead of doing it by hand? He said if they did then all those people wouldn't have a job and there is nothing else for them to do. I'm afraid the same thing would happed if you start taxing their imports, they would lose what little they have.

I myself do not buy Chinese products. I'm not against buying foreign goods and do it all the time, but I absolutely despise cheap tools and cheap parts. I don't believe I've ever seen a tool or part come out of China that wasn't substandard quality.

ksu_chainsaw · « **Reply #23 on:** March 13, 2004, 09:48:11 am »

We have been using nicopress type splices on fence wire for a long time. We used to get the small crimpers at the farm store for an outrageous price, but we would either loose them or break them. Also, for high-tensile fence wire, the 18" crimpers that they sold were virtually impossible to start crimping. We found an older pair of 36" bolt cutters, cut the notches into the jaws, and we have used that pair of crimpers for fencing for almost three years now. It is the most useful tool that we have in the fencing trailer now, since it still has an area to cut wires, and the long handles make it much easier to crimp in the splices.

Charles

etat · « **Reply #24 on:** March 13, 2004, 10:02:25 am »

ksu_chainsaw, pretty much what I was talkin about making to use with a vise.

charles..... ;Daka !!!

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #25 on:** March 13, 2004, 10:06:56 am »

I also thought about grinding the jaws on our bolt cutters. Then, what would I use for them BIG bolts???

D._Frederick · « **Reply #26 on:** March 13, 2004, 10:29:56 am »

Shopteacher,

I agree that during Hoover days a dollar a day was not a lot of money, but you could by a Model T for less than 500 of them dollars. I sure wouldn't want to go back to the CCC times, but they build the Great Lodges here in the west. I doubt if it could be done anymore.

shopteacher · « **Reply #27 on:** March 13, 2004, 12:16:14 pm »

Mark, it's a good thing your not against buying foreign goods otherwise you'd might have to go around naked and hungry.

Larry · « **Reply #28 on:** March 13, 2004, 03:43:04 pm »

Used to use something called a sleeve roller to splice telephone wire. The Nicopress came out and we switched because it was a cheaper and more versatile. The old sleeve roller made a crimp that would never come loose.

Winch line eye splices were always made by braiding. Loose ends were wrapped over with something called spinning wire with a little tape on top. Winch lines would break but I never saw one break at a braided eye splice. FDH had a good description on how to do it with pictures a while back but I can’t find it.

Dad always told me never buy a tool (or motorcycle) from Japan or Taiwan as they were junk. Just stick with Delta and Powermatic. Times are changing fast. The country with the lowest cost of production is going to end up being the manufacture of choice. Not going to take China long to figure out if they can improve their quality, they could be the manufacture of choice. Only one guess as to what country is going to send the experts over their to improve the quality.

old3dogg · « **Reply #29 on:** March 13, 2004, 04:05:41 pm »

Larry.
That would be out sorcing our education.
Scary thought.

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #30 on:** March 13, 2004, 04:11:25 pm »

Back when "Made in Japan" became a hot label, the quality was bad. The reason, I think,

, was because the IMPORTER, The guys in the US, were flooding the market with cheap goods from Japan, at low quality.

The Japanese realized that improving quality would make them a LOT of money. China can do the same thing. The inporters are to blame for cheap standards, in my book. Look what Japan did with the AUTO INDUSTRY, AND NOW, TECHNOLOGY. DanG cap lock

Larry · « **Reply #31 on:** March 13, 2004, 04:34:23 pm »

Shopteacher hinted at it when he said the wood products and furniture manufactures are under attack. China can put up a state of the art furniture plant and selling nice looking stuff at Costco almost at the cost of the raw material before the multi million dollar environmental impact study for a new plant can be completed in the US for a new plant.

Just an observation at what lies ahead.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #32 on:** March 13, 2004, 06:45:38 pm »

rebo:

I've tried those type of clamps also and they always break. Even used hooks and pulleys and they always snap. I think a wooden hook and pulleys would be stronger. I have an old wooden pully hooked to the rafters in the barn with ice hooks that bite into the rafter beam. I've never used them myself for anything but I bet great grand father did loads of times. I know a 75 year old feller that uses wooden pulleys in the woods to yard and load his wood onto his pickup.

rebocardo · « **Reply #33 on:** March 13, 2004, 06:54:25 pm »

Got my new Wearguard catalog. Not one short sleeve shirt made in the USA. Only one pair of demin pants and no boots made in the USA. Nothing in that catalog for me anymore, unless someone can help me find a good USA shirt.

I really need some short sleeve shirts with button down flaps, to keep out the saw dust, 65% poly/35 cotton so they last, and a fairly dark solid color in 3XL. Made in the USA. Anyone?

> "chinesium"

ROTF!

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #34 on:** March 13, 2004, 07:05:13 pm »

Makita is also a foreign brand and we always bought that brand of hand tools. They can't be beat, and my father for one is hard on tools. Where ever he drops it, is where it will be next time. I have 2 nice routers, a drill, and belt sander all Makita. He bought 2 drills and a power wrench from Makita and had them for years. The power cords have gotten kinda ratty over the years on his tools because of the abuse, but they always worked. All my machines in the shop are made in Taiwan (which is China really) including Delta. I like them all. As far as steel, Korea has good steel. I see it especially in the cutlary. I've seen Canadian and US made every day cutlary and they bend all to rat crap, but my Korean made silver ware are solid. Basically, what it boils down too is if you shop at the 'Penny a Dozen' stores, don't expect high quality. Don't blame quality on the country. Most times when you buy an Asian product that requires assemby you always have 2 extra bolts or screws included and with domestic stuff you end up short a bolt or nut, so I go to the spare parts jar and use a Chinese made bolt.

DanG · « **Reply #35 on:** March 13, 2004, 07:47:00 pm »

FDH, don't mess up yer good bolt cutters to make a crimper! Git yerself a cheap Chinese pair fer dat.

Patty · « **Reply #36 on:** March 14, 2004, 05:53:40 am »

One sure fire way to get shirts or pants or any clothes in the USA is to sew them yourself. It really isn't too hard at all, and the best part is you get to buy a whole room full of new tools!

Seriously though, maybe that is part of the problem, we want someone else to make our stuff. Granted we often don't have the time, skills, nor want to make our own stuff, and we really don't want to mortgage the house to buy the stuff, either. What to do? I don't claim to have any answers here, I just think maybe if we were all more self reliant so much of what we need, or think we need, wouldn't have to be imported. Life would slow down a bit, and maybe we could see more clearly what truley is important.
No offense to anyone intended here, I like to buy new stuff as well as anybody. I just don't think we should resent the folks that are willing to make the stuff we buy no matter where they live. I have the choice whether or not to buy it, and if I can't find the one I want, made where I want it made, then I have the choice to go without, or to make it myself.
This is just my opinion, again,I don't mean to offend anybody.

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #37 on:** March 14, 2004, 06:07:42 am »

Hi Patty. Can't possibly see how your post could offend anyone.

Truth is, it makes a LOT of sense. I believe that the TV set rules most peoples free time, where things like you described, would be taken care of.

shopteacher · « **Reply #38 on:** March 14, 2004, 06:39:16 am »

Patty, I surely don't resent the folks that are making the stuff. Hey, their just like us, trying to make a living the best way they can. I do resent them being taken advantage of as far as pay & living conditions goes. I remember watching a news show who were doing a documentary on work overseas or something along that line. They show a factory and a lathe that a 10 or 12 year old kid ran and a pile of rags next to it where he slept. I hate to think I was part of that by buying the product that was produced there and some American or Asian or both were getting rich off that kids sweat and toil. I think that if the products are sold here than a fair and living wage should be paid to their workers. That doesn't necessarily mean the type of wages paid here as our standards of living are much different, but at a rate that would coincide with the same standard of living on their scale as on ours. If a factory worker makes middle income by our standards than a factory worker there should be middle income. I don't think that's the case.
I've also seen the environmental disasters these companies are creating overseas and in Mexico. Someday, someone will have to pay to clean it up. Want to take a guess who?

old3dogg · « **Reply #39 on:** March 14, 2004, 09:03:13 am »

I dont resent the people of China either.I also know that it is hard to buy made in the USA products.
I just got back from wal mart.
My t-shirts are made in El Salvador from usa fabric?
My new wash cloths are made in Pakistan.
My toilet paper was made here in the good old USA but with "imported material" :-/
I dont know.I guess it is harder to take when its your job on the line.
Thanks for letting me rant.

Haytrader · « **Reply #40 on:** March 14, 2004, 10:10:04 am »

This goes right back to the "we can't fix all the worlds problems" thing.
That kid runnin the lathe may be glad to have that job. His family probably relies on his meager income to survive.

Patty, I certainly agree that we have become a society of convienience. We want it NOW. No time to make it ourselves. We should do more like you said.
Heck, I had a wife onced that would have bought boiled water if she couda.

shopteacher · « **Reply #41 on:** March 14, 2004, 10:34:36 am »

Haytrader, your probably right about that kid and his family. My point is that with what the corporations are making it shouldn't have to be that way. I think any kid should be allowed to be a kid.

Bill_B · « **Reply #42 on:** March 14, 2004, 10:44:53 am »

When I was using Swingstage scaffolds you could not use the u-bolt clamps. They would crush the cables. We had to use fistgrips. when you are hanging 100 feet in the air it better be safe. This link shows fistgrips.
http://www.aceenergysupply.com/showprod.cfm?CatID=8&ObjectGroup_ID=341

EZ · « **Reply #43 on:** March 14, 2004, 12:29:34 pm »

As far as the working man and women outside the USA they are just trying to make a living like the rest of us.
So if all the American workers would hold their ground and go against our goverment, then what, we would be back in the stone age. I for one dont want to go back, so what do we do, try are best in this world and let God sort out the greedy ones.
Has everyone said a prayer for the inicent people over in Spain that needs help. Remember folks, all men are creative equal.
EZ

Haytrader · « **Reply #44 on:** March 14, 2004, 01:37:54 pm »

Teach,

I think we are on the same page, just used different words.

Norm · « **Reply #45 on:** March 14, 2004, 02:13:29 pm »

I don't worry to much about the so called outsourcing of manufacturing jobs. It is just a natural progression of our society. Our people here are better educated so the jobs that are lower level blue collar go to where the cheaper labor is. I remember in elementary school the scare tactics of if we have technology innovations the jobs will disappear. Some have but the vast majority of high tech jobs are still in the US. If the job of putting three bolts on an assembly line can be replaced by a robot then someone will have to build and maintain that robot.

As far as the workers in other countries if you've never been to a third world country you would be surprised. I was flying home from the far east and was sitting next to a guy that had been in Guangzhou setting up a plant for Wrigley. He said one of the problems they had was getting the workers to use the restrooms. They have a different culture in those countries so us sitting here saying what's what about it is really irrelevant. It's a whole different way of life, their society and ours are not comparable.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #46 on:** March 14, 2004, 03:30:39 pm »

I totally agree Norm. There's not much else to be said.

EZ · « **Reply #47 on:** March 14, 2004, 03:54:43 pm »

Your right Norm, I guess I watch TV to much.
EZ

BW_Williams · « **Reply #48 on:** March 15, 2004, 08:39:07 am »

Right here folks, http://www.bbaileys.com/store/USA.htm, good clothes, delivered to your door, made in the good ol' USA! Thanks Bill_B for posting the link to Crosby clips. The problem with the original clip failure was it is a stamped clip, these are only good for hanging pictures! Crosby clips are forged, heat treated and meet standards. When you know the facts, the choice is easy, ifn' your the one swingin' from the (wire) rope. BWW

old3dogg · « **Reply #49 on:** March 15, 2004, 05:12:48 pm »

Thank you very much BWW.
You can still buy good old "MADE IN THE USA" products if your not to lazy to look.
Thanks again man.You made my day!

neslrite · « **Reply #50 on:** March 15, 2004, 06:15:13 pm »

I was ordering some steel this morning and was shocked that I had to pay 40% more than I paid six weeks ago for the same product. I knew that metal prices have been on the rise but 40% is alot and he expects it to go higher.
The reason, my supplier said was the Chinese. Apparently the pacific rim economy is booming and they are buying up all the raw materials they can plus they stopped shipping steel to the US. One interesting figure he threw out was that they are building 2 or 3 new plants that will be online next year and even with this added capacity the demand from China will exceed the entire world supply in 2005.
Just some food for thought on the China thing.
neslrite

Furby · « **Reply #51 on:** March 17, 2004, 03:17:38 pm »

Thanks for that mental image, Norm.
No more gum for me! :-/

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Author Topic: Made In China - dont bet your life on it (Read 2556 times)