The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:




TimberKing Sawmills




Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Forest Products Industry Insurance


Norwood Industries Inc.


Sawmill & Woodlot Magazine



Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades


Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Woodshax Outdoor Vending Solutions

FARMA

Forestry Forum Tool Box

Author Topic: Barn foundation questions  (Read 5132 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline deb36

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Barn foundation questions
« on: August 21, 2012, 01:41:19 am »
Hi all,

I posted here about a year ago about the barn roof. Happy to say we now have a new steel roof on the barn.  Now we have some problems with the foundation.  We have a contractor, but wondering what the best and least expensive way is to stablize things. 

I'll see about taking some pictures...

The barn is a hipped barn I believe 84 x 44 foot.  The south foundation is good.  But when we quit dairy farming, the 84 foot west basement wall gradually got pushed east because of the frost.  Now that wall is crumbling in places.  But it is not leaning.  The east wall is leaning eastward.  Especially at the north end of the barn.  There's no concrete wall on the north end. It got blown down about 40 years ago, and was replaced with a plywood wall.   

First the idea was to replace the west wall.  Now because of cost, we're talking about putting in new footings on the north end and an 8 foot wall.  That's not cheap either, but it would give the barn 4 good corners to stand on.

I'll post some pics of our new roof!

Thanks,

Deb

Offline beenthere

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 26970
  • Location: Southern Wisconsin, USA
  • Gender: Male
Re: Barn foundation questions
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2012, 02:40:39 am »
What does the contractor suggest?
He/she is the closest to the problem, and hopefully has experience in footings and walls.

From close friends, saving their barns with walls that are crumbling or moving is a big expense, but not very many shortcuts. They both tried several attempst to patch the problem over the last 30 years.
One finally bit the bullet and removed the dirt against the wall that was moving and essentially started from scratch with a new poured foundation and wall. Now it is stable.
The other continued to patch, and anchoring the wall back to poured columns, but the wall finally just caved in and the barn listed to that side. Bulldozed it in last year or so.

Two posts?? Did you post before with a different name? Seems I recall the barn, and the pictures and story, but not under your present handle.

Good on the roof solution, and welcome back.
south central Wisconsin
 It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Offline deb36

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Barn foundation questions
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2012, 11:22:05 pm »
Thanks for the info.  I posted under the same handle last time.  Really glad the roof is fixed and we're moving on to 'phase two'.  We did take the dirt off the west wall a few years ago...and since have been doing the patch work you describe.  I'll talk to our contractor and see what he thinks is best.  He's come up with bids for the north wall and footings.  To reduce costs he suggested a 4 foot concrete wall with 4 feet of treated lumber for the rest of the wall.  We're all for getting it done right.

Glad to share good news,

Thanks,

Deb

Offline Rooster

  • Board Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 657
  • Location: Lake Mills, by way of Fort Atkinson, WI
  • Gender: Male
  • Tools are extensions of ourselves... share a tool.
    • Photobucket image storage account
Re: Barn foundation questions
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2012, 04:16:14 pm »
Deb,

Could you post some photos fo the damaged or questionable areas that want to work on?

Have you thought about supporting the barn frame, pouring a new footer, pouring a shorter concrete "knee wall", and then adding concrete block to fill between the top of the concrete wall and the underside of the frame sill?  This process makes it easier to pour the wall and to make the wall stiffer with less weather penetration and damage to wood framing/ siding.

I'll see if I can get a photo of what I'm describing.

Rooster
"We talk about creating millions of "shovel ready" jobs, for a society that doesn't really encourage anybody to pick up a shovel." 
Mike Rowe

"Old barns are a reminder of when I was young,
       and new barns are a reminder that I am not so young."
                          Rooster

Offline deb36

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Barn foundation questions
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2012, 05:48:18 pm »
Hi Rooster,

Thanks for the reply.  I've yet to hear from our contractor. I think he's really busy this time of year.  He may be thinking the same thing you are.  He said he'd pour most of the wall, but would have to put block on the top. 

I finally got around to taking some new pictures.  Will try to post them now. 

Deb

Offline deb36

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Barn foundation questions
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2012, 06:16:49 pm »
 

  

 
Above is how the barn looks now.  Not bad eh? 

Offline deb36

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Barn foundation questions
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2012, 06:31:50 pm »
 

 

The above is the north west corner.  We're looking at putting in new footings/foundation/8 ft wall on the north end.  The options the contractor talked about were all concrete except at the top of the wall, where he'd put block.  Or putting in a 4 foot concrete wall with 4 ft of treated lumber for the top of the wall, to reduce cost.

Offline deb36

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Barn foundation questions
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2012, 06:38:33 pm »
 

 

Here's the north end of the barn. 

Offline deb36

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Barn foundation questions
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2012, 06:41:14 pm »
 Here's the 'before' picture.



 

Offline Shotgun

  • Forester
  • *
  • Posts: 1083
  • Location: Michigan - Northern Lower Peninsula
  • Gender: Male
Re: Barn foundation questions
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2012, 06:43:03 pm »
Deb, You can put the picture and the text in the same post, just in case you didn't realize it.
Joined The Forestry Forum 5 days before 9/11.

Offline Rooster

  • Board Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 657
  • Location: Lake Mills, by way of Fort Atkinson, WI
  • Gender: Male
  • Tools are extensions of ourselves... share a tool.
    • Photobucket image storage account
Re: Barn foundation questions
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2012, 07:22:45 pm »
Deb,

I consolidated your posts for you.

Looks like a fun project!

Rooster...(Moderator)
"We talk about creating millions of "shovel ready" jobs, for a society that doesn't really encourage anybody to pick up a shovel." 
Mike Rowe

"Old barns are a reminder of when I was young,
       and new barns are a reminder that I am not so young."
                          Rooster

Offline deb36

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Barn foundation questions
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2012, 07:23:59 pm »
Hi Rooster,

My computer was acting up...couldn't seem to get the comments to go with the pictures.  Thanks,

Deb

Offline Cord

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • I'm new!
Re: Barn foundation questions
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2013, 06:07:50 pm »
Even though this thread is at the top, I guess it's an old thread.  Guess there isn't much traffic on this forum. 

Based on your description, I believe the bank wall is failing.  I see a couple of causes, the primary one being the one wall missing and the fact that you stopped farming.  The missing end wall was actually structural because it braced the end of the bank wall.  Think of the bank wall as a stud wall with no braces.  Kinda flimsy.  Now put two diagonal braces on either end and it stiffens up nicely.  This is how the end walls function.  I once had an old timer comment on how fast barns deteriorate once the cows are out of them.  It's not the cows, but their hay.  Huh?  Well, that 100 ton of hay in the mow adds a lot of mass to help hold the bank wall in place.  Without the weight, things now start moving.  Now that bank wall is pretty thick, but consider how much the dirt behind it weighs.  Take a piece of plywood and pile dirt against it and see how long you can hold the board.  Now the wall has to do this every day, year after year.  The solution is to get the weight off the wall.  I accomplished this on my barn by building a new retaining wall parallel to the existing one with huge concrete blocks that I got from the concrete plant.  They make these blocks with waste concrete that was rejected or wasn't used.  Generally you can get them for $25 each if you shop around.  They come in different sizes, but the bigger the better!  I've since discovered some water control issues, so the design I attached has a water barrier shown.  You can omit this, but based on my experience, I wouldn't recommend it.

As for doing a half height wall to save cost, I wouldn't recommend it.  A wall will be strongest when it's continuous from footing to joist.  Putting a joint in the middle will really weaken it.  Too often well intentioned contractors make things worse because they fail to understand the forces and reactions on the barn foundations.

Offline Cord

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • I'm new!
Re: Barn foundation questions
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2013, 06:08:38 pm »