Chestnuts

[Randall]

I read somewhere that Chestnut trees were once the dominant tree all over the East. Fast growing, big, straight trees that fed alot of different wildlife. Then some illness killed them all out. It may have caused the extinction of the passenger pigeon. Even today they only grow a few years before they die. Are there any hybrids on the market?

[SwampDonkey]

Here is some info on breeding of resistance in chestnut, from Penn State U.
http://www.arboretum.psu.edu/planning/orchard.html

Commercial Tree nursery with chestnuts
http://www.grimonut.com/section3.htm
But USDA or the province of BC don't allow importation of the trees and nuts, sorry.

[Randall]

Thanks for the info Swampdonkey. I hope Penn State has success. Sounds like a good tree to plant in a few years.  

[Ron Wenrich]

Hybrid system was started several decades ago.  It involves taking a Chinese and American chestnuts and creating a hybrid.  The only problem is that the Chinese doesn't have nearly the good characteristics of the American.

So, they keep on breeding the hybrids with the Americans, until the American characteristics are 90% dominant.  It takes about 8 years to get to a nut bearing stage.  Then the chestnut blight is introduced and the survivors are bred again.  After 6 generations, they feel that there will be sufficient American characteristics and be blight resistant.  The good news is that they are at the final generation.  Hopefully, seedlings will be available in the next several years.

For more information on the blight, and the program, try the American Chestnut Foundation:  http://www.acf.org/

[SwampDonkey]

Ron:

That site has got me interested in American chestnut. We have horse chestnut which has gone wild from the cities. They're quite common around the city of Fredericton. I wonder if the breading program of the American chestnut replicates chestnuts from different latitudes. If there was a strain from Maine or upper Michegan I'de sure like to try some on my woodlot. Its not native this far north, but whose to say it wasn't here 2000 or 3000 years ago. Our butternut for instance is isolated to the lower half of the Saint John River valley and lower reaches of its tributaries. Now we have a fungi infecting it, but I don't notice it here yet because its not in large stands, usually scattered or in isolated groups. Thanks for the link to the ACF, I got it bookmarked.

[Ron Wenrich]

Horse chestnut isn't even related to the American chesnuts.  Chestnuts are in the oak family.  Fagaceae castanea dentata.  The range maps I have seen only puts it to the Maine border, so perhaps its too cold up your way.

But, you might have some areas that might support it.  You've seen some of those relic communities, haven't you?  Its one of my favorites when hearing about global warming.

Outside of State College, PA, we have several types of relic communities.  On one side of the mountain there is Bear Meadows.  It supports red, black and white spruce and is a bog.  These are indigenous to Canada and aren't anywhere within 100s of miles of State College.  This area is in a frost pocket and helps support these forests that were there at some time.

On the south side of the same mountain there is shortleaf pine - a southern species.  This is 100s of miles further north than its current range.  The community wasn't very robust and probably won't survive another generation, unless it warms up.  At one time, it was warm enough to support this tree in State College.

My point is that there may be places in your area that support oak, especially black oak (which has almost an identical range).  If its only red oak, it may be a little too far north.  You also need some pretty good soil.

The ACF is a pretty good organization.  I joined a couple of years ago.  There are ample opportunites to give volunteer work, and you can even start your own orchard.  Lots of work.

The chestnut was native to my area, and you can still find a few trees that are 12-14".  Most of these are hybrids with the Chinese and European varities that were used for nut plantations back after the blight in our area.  There are a few old trees that are pure American that has dodged the blight.  They are the pollen source for crossbreeding.

[SwampDonkey]

Ron:

Yes I've heard of relic communities if that's what you wish to name them, burr oak is a classic example of what you describe. Aslo, I knew Horsechestnut was totally different than American chestnut. You can see that from the palmate leaves and its flowers although similar to oak are quite large and fragrant in comparison. I do know that southern Maine had American Chestnuts at one time before the blight. Sometimes those maps of ranges aren't very accurate, they're generalized. The map for silver maple for instance shows it growing as far north as Edmundston, NB, but in reality you don't find it within 100 miles of there unless its planted on a lawn. There are people who confuse it with boxelder, planted as an ornamental, and has colonized the river valley. I don't doubt it would be difficult to get a hardy cultivar of the American chestnut, most of its range is too far south of us as indicated. I've had success with black walnut to some degree, but in severe cold winters you get die-back (-20 or colder). I have to mention that I've had opertunity to work with tree improvement programs and understand the difficulties with translocating plants from southern latitudes. Its easier to go southward but run the risk of introducung disease in warmer climates. It was discovered that when black spruce from New Brunswick was replicated throughout the maritime provinces it performed better in relation to growth, frost hardiness, and form than any other maritime seed source.

Here's one scenario:
We have seen problems with disease resistance of red pine from Sirococcus shoot blight. Native red pine here does not seed very well so seed sources in Minnesota where used in nurseries in Nova Scotia. Many non-native tree plantations have been subject to sirococcus shoot blight that their native red pine were resistant too. It seems to attack plantations in NS with Minnesota cultivars. It has struck 100's of acres of red pine.

Here is a leaflet on the Sirococcus shoot blight survey done in NS. In this report not all red pine plantations were surveyed. Unfortunately, the report does not make any separation between native and non-native pine.
http://www.gov.ns.ca/natr/forestry/reports/report46.pdf

Host related variation of the diseas is found here
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1046/j.1439-0329.2003.00313.x/abs/

cheers

[nrhora]

Another good commercial nursery source for chestnuts would be through Rhora's Nut Farm & Nursery


Contact: Charles Rhora

Website: http://www.nuttrees.com

email: rhoras@nuttrees.com

[SPIKER]

I remember having seen photos of OLD loggging operations which show/stated that the loggers were standing by american chestnut trees the photos were of trees which I can only compair to redwoods    tree base was a good 10' across and was reported to be well over 120' high.   where I saw he photo & read the info was unknown to me now.   the blite you speek about was/is really similar to the dutch elm killer everyone in our generation may be more familar with.  anyhow just my 2 cents worth...   

Mark M

[nrhora]

We are in a Zone 4 (temperatures to -35 degrees F) and have worked with the native american chestnut in trying to select varieties that are resistant to the blight.  We have carried out extensive cross pollination  with the Chinese chestnut and some varieties from Mangola which are very hardy.  We are now into our third generation and have succeeded in selecting some varieties that are actually resistant to the blight and have the genetic qualities of the native tree.  An upright timber type tree.  These hybrids are still under study although some are now over twenty years of age.  We have many planted out in test plots.
They look very promising.

Ontario  Zone 4.

[Ivan Bo]

I'm 95 years old, live outside of Bangor, Maine and have been raising and planting Chestnut seedlings and giving them away to friends and relatives for 3 years. There are many live trees within a 50 mile radius of me. The American Chestnut foundation, Maine chapter is planting orchards all over the state.

[Ivan Bo]

I have great pictures if someone could give me a brief tutorial on how to post pictures, please.
Thanks,

[ohsoloco]

Ivan, DanG made a nice write-up on how to post pictures.  Go to the "Behind The Forum" area and you will see the thread on how to post pics 

[Ivan Bo]

[Ivan Bo]

First of all, this is Nancbee and Ivan Bo learning how to post pictures and stories in the same post. So far we're not doing so well!

The tree above is an American Chestnut which stands 20+ feet tall. David Rock, a local, retired forester, brought a dozen chestnut seeds from Michigan about 18 years ago. He planted 4 himself and gave the rest to friends. We know of 6 more of in the area. They are tall, 4-6 inches through and bearing burrs this season. We're waiting for the burrs to fall so we can see how the seeds are developing.

More pictures to follow.

[Jeff]

Good job! 

Simply paste the insert code where ever you want the photo to be in the post.  You can use the same photo anywhere you want time and again in the forum by simplygoing to your gallery ands getting the code. 

[Ivan Bo]

This American Chestnut stands 40-50 ft tall. It sits in a private yard near the Stillwater River in Orono, ME approx. 10 mi from my house. It's spectacular. The Maine Chapter has pollinated it this season. That was quite a sight to see. They put 50 pollination bags on the sunny side of the tree. We expect 200-300 viable seeds within the next month.

[Tom]

That's how you do it!   

Good Show!

[ohsoloco]

Nice pics 

[Furby]

Hey, COOL pics!
Thanks for posting them, I'm looking forward to seeing more!
Can't recall ever seeing a live Chestnut myself, so that's one I'll have to watch for.