Author Topic: Marketing Flamed box elder (Read 778 times)

Kansas · « **on:** February 11, 2012, 06:59:09 am »

We cut what was the best box elder that we have ever had an opportunity to get. Guessing it was 24" diameter, heavy flame. The log was sound, which is a bit unusual for around here. If you were going to market it, how would you go about it. We cut two 4 inch thick slabs, one 6 inch thick slab, all of those around 18 inches wide, several 2 inch boards, the rest 1 inch. Would you cut them into bowl blanks, anchorseal, market them green? Try to dry? Also what would you price it at?

I know I should have pictures posted, but they are at my computer at the mill, which I might try posting later today. But its the real deal. Reason I am asking these questions is after posting pics on facebook, one guy wants 300 ft. I am sorely tempted to sell it now, green, while we are still trying to transition into the new building. Just trying to get direction for a price.

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #1 on:** February 11, 2012, 08:35:44 am »

I would have been tempted to go for turning stock. Bowl blanks and the like. I've seen some of them at Woodcraft stores that had some pretty high prices. But, it wasn't flame boxelder. All of it was coated with wax.

RedLeg · « **Reply #2 on:** February 11, 2012, 12:01:16 pm »

I second the turning blocks suggestion.... as one with that affliction, they are always in demand. Check with the AAW (American Association of Woodturners) site for a local turning group contact. They'll spread the word within the organization pretty quickly. You could start making some shavings yourself.

Kansas · « **Reply #3 on:** February 11, 2012, 12:15:44 pm »

There are those that have talent and can create something wonderful. Then there are people like me, who are reduced to owning a sawmill. As Clint Eastwood said, "A man has to know his limitations".

tyb525 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 11, 2012, 12:17:24 pm »

Turning blanks can be good sellers, however they require more time and effort per piece than say a regular board. They need to be coated in wax on all sides. Then there's the storage question. Unless they're all the same size, they're hard to organize.

If you have a showroom where a customer can come in a pick what they want, it would work fine. But selling them on ebay or the like is a hassle.

jueston · « **Reply #5 on:** February 11, 2012, 12:43:57 pm »

i think turning blanks is a great idea, and i think ebay might be a good outlet for them, i don't know if you have experiance selling on ebay, but i had a few small ebay ventures and things like turning blanks are good ebay items imho.

if you do decide to turn the into blanks, you need to seel them with wax. i have always looked at the blanks in the stores and wondered how they cover them in wax. has anyone done this before? do you just dunk them in a tank of wax, it seems like you would need a huge tank and lots of wax, or do you do one side at a time? or is there something i'm missing?

but there are lots of outlets for really nice turning blanks, seeking out turning clubs is one, woodworking stores that will sell them for you, or ebay are all good options... some clubs have annual auctions[i don't know if turning clubs do this] and nothing increases the price of something like a little compitition...

tyb525 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 11, 2012, 12:56:45 pm »

The few blanks I've sold, I coated the top and the 4 sides, waited for them to dry, then coated the bottom. A dunk tank would be perfect, but then I'm not sure how you would dry them. Put a nail or screw in them and hang them from a string?

kevinlt15 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 11, 2012, 02:55:41 pm »

Hi all,
I have an excepional boxelder tree for my area as well and didn't know what to do with it. The size is 10 ft long and 24" diamiter strait log to.

when does the block get covered with wax? how big do the blocks get cut? mill of the bark?

I need direction too

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #8 on:** February 11, 2012, 05:55:04 pm »

But, is it flamed? The flame is what brings in the money. I believe you seal them right after you saw them. The ones that I've seen are planed down. I believe you can just use Anchorseal on them. Maybe someone else has a different experience.

Tree Feller · « **Reply #9 on:** February 11, 2012, 06:06:23 pm »

It's really not necessary to seal the entire blank although most do. Sealing the end-grain portion is the part that matters because that's where the majority of moisture loss occurs. Every turner I know uses Anchorseal on their turning blanks, as do I. Just brush it on, let it dry (clear) and it's done.

The creator of the "Highly Valuable Walnut Tree" video sells Flame Box Elder almost exclusively at his mill. Evidently he does well with it, too.

The red flame will eventually turn brown with UV exposure and oxidation so keep the wood stored in a dark place.

LOGDOG · « **Reply #10 on:** February 11, 2012, 06:11:42 pm »

Slicer veneer ....

Otherwise I'd commission a local woodcrafter here to make something out of it and sell it through one of my clients high end furniture / reclaimed wood specialty stores.

Kansas · « **Reply #11 on:** February 11, 2012, 06:32:42 pm »

Quote from: kevinlt15 on February 11, 2012, 02:55:41 pm

Hi all,
I have an excepional boxelder tree for my area as well and didn't know what to do with it. The size is 10 ft long and 24" diamiter strait log to.

when does the block get covered with wax? how big do the blocks get cut? mill of the bark?

Well, we screwed up cutting ours. I didn't realize it until Arky pointed it out. We cut 1 inch off the outsides. But the turning blanks are where the money is. So his method would have been to drop down 6 inches or so and make the first cut. Leave the bark on. Then cut that into blanks. When your turning a bowl, its going to be round anyway on the bottom. The bark will be taken off during turning.

I need direction too

tyb525 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 11, 2012, 07:00:11 pm »

Got any pictures of it?

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #13 on:** February 11, 2012, 07:33:10 pm »

Years ago my grandfather cut one out of the yard. It was close to 20" and because it was near the house he felt it should come down. It was sound and beyond the sapwood was all reddish wood like the flame your talking about. We cut some here in the yard after the '98 ice storm and most of them had the red to. I'm inclined to think most old box elder around here has flame. It certainly doesn't seem to be rare.

shelbycharger400 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 11, 2012, 08:24:40 pm »

swamp...

from what i have noticed, their is a difference in "southern" boxelder and "northern" boxelder . seems the south of the frost line, their is a lot more flame to the wood. Although, some trees around here are rather well flamed up, some only so so.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #15 on:** February 11, 2012, 08:34:30 pm »

Ours is invasive and non-native in New Brunswick. Who knows where the original trees came from, but we always called it Manitoba Maple.

tyb525 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 11, 2012, 10:15:22 pm »

I have seen boxelder with white sapwood and brown heartwood, with and without flame. I have also seen it without the brown heart and with red flame.

It seems like a lot of the flame is around bug damaged areas or bark inclusions.

Okrafarmer · « **Reply #17 on:** February 12, 2012, 12:11:59 am »

We have some flame too. The red looks like blood and it does not fade quickly. Still looks like crimson on some boards I've been air-drying for about 4-5 months.

Ironwood · « **Reply #18 on:** February 12, 2012, 12:32:44 am »

I have found turners around here NOT willing to open there wallets much, BUT it sounds like you have something VERY special. Seal all the way around, dont take a chance on ANY drying. They will want them wet as possible. It is a slimey mess, I delivered 4000lbs of urban salvage to an Amishman to turn for Barney of NY project (one season only it went no where). We also had a local turners group make 75 bowls to donate to the NYC Food Bank Gala bout two years ago (picture). Anchorsealed blanks were heavy, messy but stayed perfectly moist. You need to find the professionals that can maximize each blank by cutting consective "nested" bowls from each piece. They will also be more willing to step up and open their wallet. Also, you need to get a few things turned from it so they can see how special it is. I used a paint roller on the ones going to the Amishman. It made fiarly quick work of it.

Ironwood

thecfarm · « **Reply #19 on:** February 12, 2012, 05:36:35 am »

Them boys are always smiling.Last one I saw they was in the mud while you was watching them.

The one on the left,is that the same one in your avatar?

Kansas · « **Reply #20 on:** February 12, 2012, 06:03:28 am »

Ironwood, on those rounds, did you slice out slabs out of the log and then turn down the outside into blanks? Or did you crosscut the log.

WDH · « **Reply #21 on:** February 12, 2012, 07:22:31 am »

The turners around here want the logs or sections cut into slabs (like cutting lumber or boards), without any pith, and a minimun of 3" thick, but 4" or 5" is better. They do not like cross cuts or cookies. They also don't like to pay for wood. They scrounge wood everywhere. I guess that if I had truly exceptional stuff, I could sell more. It may be different in your area.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #22 on:** February 12, 2012, 07:30:17 am »

Most I've known over the years scrounge their own wood. You could have a barn full of blanks and never sell a piece.

Axe Handle Hound · « **Reply #23 on:** February 12, 2012, 09:06:37 am »

Quote from: Kansas on February 11, 2012, 06:32:42 pm

Well, we screwed up cutting ours. I didn't realize it until Arky pointed it out. We cut 1 inch off the outsides. But the turning blanks are where the money is. So his method would have been to drop down 6 inches or so and make the first cut. Leave the bark on. Then cut that into blanks. When your turning a bowl, its going to be round anyway on the bottom. The bark will be taken off during turning.

I don't think you screwed up. Unless that tree was 100% for sure cut in the dead of winter when there was no sap in the bark it would have just gotten slimey and fallen off on it's own. I deal with a lot of box elder here, mostly for firewood and syrup production, but it's been my experience that box elder does not hold it's bark well at all.

Kansas · « **Reply #24 on:** February 12, 2012, 09:31:29 am »

It wasn't that he suggested leaving the bark on. It was that a turner making bowls could take the first cut (and others) if you dropped down to your desired thickness and simply slabbed the outside. That outside slab could be cut into bowl turning blanks. The turner I am sure when turning the bowl would have taken the bark off, and shaped the outside part of the slab. The point he was making is that eliminated the 1 inch stuff. Which makes sense, and pithes me off that I never thought of it before.

Tree Feller · « **Reply #25 on:** February 12, 2012, 12:29:19 pm »

On logs of moderate size, up to about 18" diameter, blanks will be harvested by first cutting the log into sections a couple of inches longer than the diameter.

If a natural edge vessel (bark on) is desired, the short log will then be ripped with a chainsaw by bracketing the pith. That leaves two half-round sections with the bark on the outside. A circular pattern will then be attached to the bark side and the bowl blank cut out on the bandsaw. Some turners with big, variable speed lathes will simply lop off the corners with a chainsaw rather than cut a perfect circle.

If a natural edge is not wanted, a rip cut on the outside to remove the bark and some of the sapwood is made also. That will leave a blank with both sides flat so that either one can be placed on the bandsaw table.

Unless one specifically wants a natural edge, it is advisable to remove the bark because bugs like to reside just underneath it.

Also, turners fashion lots of things besides bowls. Hollow form vessels and vases are also very popular. Half-round blanks do not lend themselves well to those types of turnings.

Any turner with a Kel McNaughton or similar coring tool can cut nested bowls out of a large blank. It's also handy when turning green blanks because it will core out a bowl that is already "roughed out" and ready for final drying.

Speaking of drying, not all turners want their blanks green. That requires twice-turning...the vessel is roughed out with the wall thickness left at around 10% of diameter, dried for several weeks up to several months and then final turned to eliminate any warping. Some don't want to wait for the drying so they only turn dry wood. Lots of commercial places, like Hearne Hardwoods, offer kiln-dried turning blanks.

I turn a lot and have never bought a turning blank but that's because I'm rural and have access to so much free wood. Urban wood turners and those who do not have the time to source and procure free wood will definitely buy blanks, both green and dried. That's why one sees turning blanks in places like Woodcraft...because people are buying them.

Ironwood · « **Reply #26 on:** February 13, 2012, 09:44:22 pm »

CF,

Yes, same boy about 8 years older.

Yes, milled them to 4-5" thick slabs. then cut out the blanks with no pith.

Ironwood

ely · « **Reply #27 on:** February 14, 2012, 09:26:25 am »

im sorta like SD, doesent do ya much good to have a barn full of anything with no buyer. if i had someone wanting the wood now i would negociate a price and move on. less handleing,less storage,less overhead=more cash in the long run. face it, no one here is gonna retire on flamed box elder.

Dodgy Loner · « **Reply #28 on:** February 14, 2012, 10:11:31 am »

I really think that you have to be open to internet marketing and shipping if you want to do well with turning blanks. There are definitely people out there who will shell out good money for turning blanks, but they are mostly around big urban areas where "free wood" is hard to come by. And most of the people with blanks to cut and sell are far removed from those big urban areas. If you have very special wood, I definitely think it would be well worth your time to look into online sales. The more you do it, the less of a headache it becomes.

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Author Topic: Marketing Flamed box elder (Read 778 times)