Author Topic: Have you seen this kind of situation (Read 1357 times)

Roxie · « **Reply #20 on:** February 11, 2012, 12:15:47 pm »

Bless you for feeding the horses. Unfortunately, hay is not enough, and if the owners are negligent feeding them, what about vet care, hoof care, and dental care? Horses that are not brushed regularly develop a coat condition called rain rot.

You are doing a good thing, but sooner or later, the proper authorities will need to be notified when one goes down. I know it's hard, but the kindest thing you can do is report the situation.

thecfarm · « **Reply #21 on:** February 11, 2012, 12:54:54 pm »

Coley,kinda sounds like someone we know. We had 3 horses at one time. Yes,they do waste hay. This person was over and my wife says I have to give the horses some more hay. There was hay on the ground. This person says why,there is plenty on the ground. I wouldn't give them no more until they ate that. She also gives very LITTLE grain when it's cold too. I would always give them double when it got down to 10-15 °. She thought we was nuts to do that,What for? she asked.

She also thought we was crazy to give them hay,our fields have plenty of grass. All full of weeds the fields are in my eyes.

Bill Gaiche · « **Reply #22 on:** February 12, 2012, 12:37:44 am »

I went to my 10 acres this morning 18 degrees at 8:30 to unload my kiln and put more in. Had some bur oak and walnut to sticker up in the shed. Did finally make contact with the owner of the hosses. Anyway this is what PC calls them. He told me right off he owes me and I told him that it was ok. He said that he has a job now. He said he didnt know where to get any hay. He said he heard of some about 50 miles away. I had a # for some hay. I called them in his presance and they had sold out. He did mention that he had given them some grain but I am not sure of that. He never mentioned that he was going to try and find any. I told him that I would keep checking and I left. I got to town and check at gas station and they didnt know of any. I took off east of town about 7 miles and located some. A fella had a bunch for sale. $90.00 per round bale. I bought 2. Delivered 1 and them hosses were tickled again. Took the other bale home. The owner was not home when I delivered the hay. Will take over the other as soon as they run out of the 1. Maybe I can find some grain to add along with the hay. Come on spring and green grass. The FF does have a bunch of animal lovers and that is good. We are supposed to take care of our families and our animals. Everyone stay warm and have a good day. bg

WDH · « **Reply #23 on:** February 12, 2012, 06:49:11 am »

Quote from: Bill Gaiche on February 12, 2012, 12:37:44 am

We are supposed to take care of our families and our animals.

Those are the words of the day.

Al_Smith · « **Reply #24 on:** February 12, 2012, 08:00:51 am »

I think in these days the problem is compounded due to the fact everything is those gigantic round bales .With the older 80 pound bales you can handle them by hand.Keep them in the dry etc .

Big old thousand pound round bale what can you do with it ? You can't arm strong it .So there it lays out in the weather ,gets wet .The horses waller it around .Wet spoiled hay causes collicy horses.Eventually it will kill them .

scsmith42 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 12, 2012, 10:52:58 am »

Bill, kudo's to you for doing the humane thing for those horses! There has been a lot of great advice on this thread re feeding, grain, hoof care, etc, as well as the root cause issue related to the closure of US slaughter hauses (which significantly worsened the plight of man horses).

Some good news is that the U.S. Congress recently passed a bill providing budget for the USDA slaughter house inspectors, so hopefully some of the U.S. based locations will re-open soon and we will see a reduction in horse starvation situations.

If you are able to contain the hay in some type of covered bale feeder, it will last much longer. If you've ever watched a horse urinate, you will notice that if they have a choice between going on the hard ground or going over a pile of hay, they usually select the hay pile every time. The only logical theory that I have heard explaining why is that they are trying to prevent the splatter back up on their legs. However, the hay is ruined....

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet or not, but be sure that they always have access to good water. One of the leading causes of colic in horses is if they go off of their feed or water for several hours.

Best of success to you in your endeavor; it is indeed a very worthy one.

Scott

rockman · « **Reply #26 on:** February 12, 2012, 11:08:25 am »

Bill, Thanks for keeping us posted on the plight of the horses. You know alot of people would notice the starving horses, but not many would be willing to spend thier own time and money to do the right thing. If there was a Member of the week or month, you would certianly qualify. From one animal lover to another, THANK YOU for what your doing.

Kevin

Brad_bb · « **Reply #27 on:** February 12, 2012, 03:06:52 pm »

I have to disagree with everyone here. I think Bill did the wrong thing. Once he put the hay out, the Humane Society could not pursue the owner. What he's done, by the order of what he did, is like enabling a drug addict.
If the owner of the horses does not have the resources to care for the animals, he needs to- give the horses to someone who can and will care for them, ask the Humane society or other rescue group for help. By allowing the animals to go without food, he was treating them cruely and should have immediately asked for help.
Bill's first contact should have been to the owner, and if he didn't get a good feeling right off, then should have immediately contacted the authorities, like the Humane Society. After doing that, THEN you could quickly get the horses hay. Unfortuneatly by putting hay out BEFORE contacting the Humane Society, to drastically delay possible seizure of the animals, and thus getting them the real help they need. If there's hay out there, the authorities cannot make a case for lack of food and thus cannot get a seizure warrant.
Feeding the horses grain could be very dangerous and could actually end up killing the horses, if given too much grain too quickly, especially if they are not eating hay or grass at the same time. Hoof issues are a serious problem that will kill horses just as fast as anything. Overgrown hooves, abscesses, thrush, etc can cause a horse to go down which leads to a whole host of problems. It sounded like the horses not only needed food, but also some vet care, and a ferrier. If Bill starts providing and shelling out money, it enables the owner to continue to act irresponsibly. Why should he pay if Bill is willing to?
Bill's heart is in the right place, but sometimes we can end up doing more harm than good if we don't consider everything. Bill shouldn't have to bear the cost all himself, better to get the Humane Society involved, then contribute to them, or become a foster.

beenthere · « **Reply #28 on:** February 12, 2012, 03:56:55 pm »

Brad
That sounds like a lawyers' approach to the problem.

I'm glad the horses got some hay.
Hopefully their future is brighter than their past.

Norm · « **Reply #29 on:** February 12, 2012, 04:17:50 pm »

Sounds like you've never dealt with the humane society, or have a better view of them than me.

I like his approach a lot better.

Magicman · « **Reply #30 on:** February 12, 2012, 04:27:27 pm »

All that Bill has to do is to make a statement to any authorities that he provided hay/food. The amount that Bill provided did not fatten them up or remove the threat of starvation. It simple provided nutrients until something better happens for the animals.

Doing the "right" thing in the "wrong" way is still wrong. Intentionally or knowingly withholding food until the "right" thing is done is wrong. At least it would have been for the animals. Sometimes you have to take care of the obvious before proceeding to the legalities.

Brad, I understand your point, but I also understand Bill's.

Brad_bb · « **Reply #31 on:** February 12, 2012, 05:28:39 pm »

I think the key is often getting the animals in the hands of those financially able and willing to care for the animal. If I couldn't, I'd be the first to ask for help of give them up if it was in their best interest. I wasn't slamming Bill, I just suggest doing things in a way that gets the best longterm care for the animals. Unfortunately I see too many animals around me, horses especially that are not properly cared for...that and I'm an alumnus of the Culver Black Horse Troop.

Paul_H · « **Reply #32 on:** February 12, 2012, 06:09:18 pm »

Brad,It's good to have different viewpoints,it's even kind of refreshing and sounds like you know your horses.
When we logged down the lake a few years ago,there were some horses from the reserve that would wander around and feed off other people's fields and were covered in burrs.
A guy I worked with contacted the spca because he was concerned that the horses wandering along the logging road in the winter were starving.They came to have a look and said that while some of them had ribs showing,their rumps were in good shape,no protruding hip bones but they would contact the owner and tell him to shape up and take better care or they would take action.
He shot all 33 of them(6 belonged to another man) and let them lay where they dropped for the coyotes and ravens.He's got more horses again.

The pics of the horses here were taken in our yard in the fall of 08 and were some of the same ones later shot.In the pic here they are finishing up on any apples and garden leftovers as well as grass.They made a mess of the lawn but left some good fertiliser for the garden next spring.I got a couple skidsteer buckets of manure from their stay in our yard

Brad_bb · « **Reply #33 on:** February 12, 2012, 07:56:00 pm »

So did the spca follow up and take action? Were they made aware of the shooting? I feel that good citizens also have a responsibility to follow up on such situations. Some of the organizations like the spca, and our border patrol as another example, need the help of citizens as the problems are just that big. If there were enough people policing their own communities, maybe some of these deadbeats would think twice about their actions?

Paul_H · « **Reply #34 on:** February 12, 2012, 08:12:48 pm »

They were aware,yes but not many outside the reserve were aware.As far as policing the community,some horses had been shot by landowners for tresspassing on their property and I considered that action myself momentarily but chose to allow them to feed and move on.

While I don't agree with the owners methods,they belonged to him and It's still a free country.You can see by the pics that they are pretty healthy looking and the spca might have taken that into account before approaching a reclusive man well known for his mental instability.

Bill Gaiche · « **Reply #35 on:** February 12, 2012, 10:08:39 pm »

Went over today to take some implements over and check the horses. I stopped at the owners trailer and he came out. I told him that I got hay the day before and he didnt know it. He said that he had some money but not what it cost. I know that he has just gone back to work and his family needs every dime they can get. I told him that I would work a deal with him if he was intrested. He has 2 10' erc logs laying in the yard. We had talked about them the day before. He was trying to sell them to a mill. They came off his families Indian alotted land and there is more. I said that if we could get a couple more nice trees I would be satisfied. He says ok. I said I would cut them and said that he would help. So I am hoping for about 6-8 more nice logs would be fair to me and I could use them in some of my projects. At least this way he has contributed something of value and something I could use. This may not be the best deal in the world, but it will be fine for me. We talked about 1 1/2 hours today. He is really a nice fellow it seems to me. They are poor people, 4 girls and a wife which has a bad leg. They live in very poor conditions. Maybe they could have done better in life but it hasnt happened to them yet. Not all are blessed with a little more, which they can help someone in need. I just happen to have a little extra at this time to be able to do that. He treats me with respect at this time. Now I can understand how some people feel about things like what is happening and thats good. In my situation, my property is at the end of the road and nobody can see it. The main gate 1/2 mile down the road is closed all the time. have had this property 4 years and nobody has been on my place but me. I concidered making the call and then I tell myself if I do and the authority takes some action whom do you think they would blame for the one that turned them in? (Me) I have a shed, kiln, lumber, brush hog and disc on the propertty. He could become angry and burn my stuff to the ground and there would be a good chance that I couldnt prove that he did it. If I did they would throw him in jail and now My taxes will be paying his keep and the family has no income or dad. I will loose more this way because I will have to replace eveything out of my pocket. This way I choose I believe will work best in this situation, but maybe not for others. I also believe that he kinda watches out for trespassers.I am hoping for a good year for him and his hosses. Time will tell. I will deal with this as time comes along. I do appreciate everyones input. Everybody have a good week, bg

Bill Gaiche · « **Reply #36 on:** February 12, 2012, 10:25:27 pm »

The horses have been good at not tearing up the bale. They have been walking away from the hay to pee. They do poop close, good fertilizer, but they have eaten every blade of hay. Maybe they will get some of that special treatment that some of you have spoken of, Hooves, teeth and coat. I am not a horse person so I dont know all there needs. With a little luck maybe they will be treated better in the future. bg

Brad_bb · « **Reply #37 on:** February 13, 2012, 01:49:50 am »

After not enough to eat, eating too much hay quickly can cause colic, which untreated could kill them. They need a vet examination. Obviously they do not have the resources to care for the animals. Talk him into giving them up.
On one hand you say he's a nice guy, then on the other you're afraid he'll burn your house down $:-\$ $:-\$

js2743 · « **Reply #38 on:** February 13, 2012, 02:40:58 am »

Bill you have done the right thing, sounds like you have made a friend by feeding the horses for the family. They will never forget what you have done for them, maybe you could get the man to help you with sawing in return for the hay. Im sure you have something the Girls could do also to help you with, wouldnt hurt to ask their dad. if you have something they could help you with your wife could use some help cleaning or something im sure. just some thoughts to help recover your cost and still be friends.

Migal · « **Reply #39 on:** February 13, 2012, 03:22:00 am »

Congrat's Bill on you parents giving you Morals as for the negative spokesman in this post well guess thats why we have law's to tell us what to do. Keep following your heart sounds to me you have made a difference. I would hate to think that we need a law to tell us what is the right thing to do. Oh MM this is the 2 read I've done in hole... How's that Cabin?

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Author Topic: Have you seen this kind of situation (Read 1357 times)