Have you seen this kind of situation

[Bill Gaiche]

I have 10 acres that joins 20 acres and that is rented by a family. They have 4 daughters that are teenagers. They have these two horses see below. There is about 2 acres of mine that is cleared with only a little bermuda grass. very little. The twenty acres has no grass planted and about 1/2 acre cleared. All is trees and some weeds. The last time these horses had a bale of hay was last January 2011. I have watched these horses all summer while I was working with my kiln, cutting wood and building my shed. The horses are on my place most of the time scrounging for food. They have eaten everything. Dug up the bermuda grass roots, eating small oak shrubs, leaves off trees and anything that they can find. They know these horses are hungry because I spoke to them about this in September when everything there had dried up from no rain last summer and fall. Last month I was over working and was watching the horses trying to find something to eat, went over to the grey horse and petted it and realized they are on there way to starving, IMO. I know the people have nothing because they are behind on rent per there landloard. I went to town and found some hay for $50 per small round bale, bought two and took one over to them the next day. Boy was they glad to see me. Two weeks had gone by and they had eaten all of that bale so I went and got the other bale. When I showed up they were there waiting for me. Eight days had gone by and I went over to check kiln and here comes the horses, only this time I dont have any hay. The fella that I bought it from was out and didnt know where we could buy any. He did give me a # to call and I will as soon as I talk to the owner  tomorrow. I dont mind feeding starving animals but not without some kind of conditions. Spring is still to far off for new grass, anyway I plan on planting my part that is cleared in grass as soon as its time. I have been over there, 14 miles from my house several times and not one time have they said thank you. I really dont expect it and thats ok. Its just these horses are hungry and tonight its supposed to be down to about 16f and Sunday the same. Hungry animals dont do well when its cold and they are hungry. Dont want to call Humane Society. Someone has to still feed them. Hope that some good comes out tomorrow for the horses. bg


 

[red oaks lumber]

bill
 you have done the right thing by providing hay, if the animal owners arent willing to help with buying hay or at the very least offer up a simple thanks. then you have no choice but to bring it to the human society's attenion.
 doing so dosent mean the animals will be removed just that others can help with providing hay or they might want to have some foster home to help rehabliltatre the animals until things can be worked out.
 the horses cant thank you but, i will
 biil g. for the horses sake i thankyou for doing the right thing

[WDH]

Bill,

What a fine thing to do.  I hope this all works out in the end. 

[Autocar]

Man thats to bad makes a fellow half sick, your a good man to feed them. I hope your able to find some help for them, where are you located. I have a neighbor man that farms but trucks also maybe I could have him help you out if he goes in your drection. Bill

[isawlogs]

 You are doing the right thing, but I would give the society a call, they may be able to help out with feed.
 
 It just turns my stomach when people have animals and don't care for them. 

[Woodwalker]

Sadly, yes several times. I can't sit back and watch something mistreated or starved.  Bought a horse and a couple of calves one time that were skin and bones. (didn't need any of them) Another time bought feed for a horse that some weekenders weren't tending to. Called local Justice of the Peace who was a cousin of mine and a bit on the vocal side. I'm not sure what he told this bunch but they went to feeding regular till they sold out. I know another time this JP gave another guy a choice, start feeding the animals, have charges filed on him or get his butt whupped.
Dad always said that "there is a lot to be said for a good butt whupping".

[Magicman]

I did call the Humane Society about the horses near my place.  There are probably 12-15 and all are starving.

Even good horses have no value here now.  Folks are trying to just give them away and there are no takers.

[Taylortractornut]

BG your did a good thing,    I have gone through the same thing but  with a man that was fairly well off and just cheap and stupid.      We had a man from town a  registered nurse buy 21 acres across the road.    He had some sandy ponds dug and  I helped clear a house place off for him.   At first he got a  pair of horses.   He had  a bale a month there.  No feeder  or ring.   THey peed on half of it.    He  didnt have a trailer and a small car and truck.     We often hauled his hay for him.      He got another horse and didnt have any good grass.      Dad and I offered to carry our 2 tractors over and disk,seed fertilize and roll it in.        If he bought the seed and fertilizer.    He did and we  tended the 9 acres he had clear.   

He then won a  show horse from up north at a local rodeo.    About that time he had has grass come up and the whole pasture had about 3 inches of green on it.   Dad told him he could turn them out there maybe an hour per day but not leavem them or they would turn it to dust.      He just left them there and talked about all the grass he had growing out there.      In  3 days that ground was dust.       He ended up with 6 horses at one time and was feeding them   as in the whole herd 3  coffee cans full of corn and sweet feed mixd and  spread out like youd feed chickens.     

They  got so thin it was awful .  The show horse went down to just skin and bones.     Someone asked him about it  and he said that horse was from New York state and they didnt  have alot of grass up there so he didnt know how to eat it.      His pasture was still dust.         

He was a snitch and worked at the Jail as jailer and  anyone that reported him got the run around  well he bought them in that shape.   He met a lady that wasrun out of Corinth MS with a herd of mini horses that were also starving.      The feed ration didnt increase either.    The first month I buried 2 of the little ones.   We ended up calling the Game warden and he put some pressure on them.       The kicker was dad an i traded up a load of  rotten 3 year old round bales to use for erosion control at work.  The horses broke the fence down and gorged on it.    THey ate 2 bales ovenight.   Even the  hay that had rottet to dirt they were eating.   I figured they would all be teats up the next morning but they were fine and finished off the  other bales on the trailer. 

After this his girlfriend  who was on  probation for a chop shop was arrested and the  escalade she was trying to sell me was stolen off a lot in  Illinois.       Someone came and took the horses and  minis.  Dad bought 2 of the  horses from him to .     I was glad to see them move. 

[paul case]

Good on ya Bill for feeding them.
Bad part is that those neighbors of yours could claim those are your horses since they are being fed on your place and as you may have heard ''possesion is 9/10 of the law''.  That means those hosses must be getting poorly taken care of by the one who has been taking care of them. Don't get caught in the middle. PC

[Bill Gaiche]

Autocar I live in northwest Ok. I appreciate the offer on the hay, but I will find a way to get them fed. Thanks to all for the thanks that you have given. It wasnt necessary for you to do that, but I know you have a heart that asks you to.

PC there are several neighbors that know the horses arent mine and who they belong to. My place is on a dead end road completly surrounded by timber so nobody knows about the shape of the horses.
We have had numerous incidents of horses being starved in our area and they have moved them to be fostered by caring people.
 you are correct about the worth of horses right now. I dont think anybody wants them for they are exspensive to feed. I guess there are a lot of you out there that sees this kind of situation everyday. Its to bad. bg

[rockman]

 Thank You Bill for helping the Horses. I have no idea how anyone can abuse any animal in any way, it is a huge problem everywhere these days. I feel everyone is right about letting the authorities know so the horses can get the care they need. Thats my 2 cents.

 Anyway, Thanks Again for what your doing.

 Kevin

[beenthere]

There is some change in the works to get the horse slaughter houses back up and running again.
The Ag appropriations bill signed in Nov. '11 provided money for inspectors to inspect horse meat again (shut off in 2007).
Apparently the result of no funding of meat inspectors meant the horse plants closed and the horse market took horses across the border into Mexico under pretty inhumane conditions transporting and slaughtering.
So that change may open up some markets that people can/will sell their horses rather than keep them through to starvation.
We've a farmer just close by whose son has several work horses that live in a small corral with little care in the way of access to drinking water, food, and shelter. The County animal health authorities have visited and even fined them several times for which they only make some short-term corrections (the animals now have an awning/tarp about the size of a car storage to get under for shelter). Pretty pathetic to see these animals survive on a meager existence.

[sandhills]

Good for you!  We have horses, cattle, and used to have pigs.  There's nothing worse than someone who can't take care of their livestock, can you imagine how they take care of their kids?

[Bogue Chitto]

You are a good Man.

[Norm]

There's nothing that makes me madder than people that starve their animals, why the  heck even have them if you will not feed them. I had a worthless neighbor do that with a dozen head of momma cows. They were so starved when they started to calve both them and the calf would go down. I finally told his dad if they didn't start feeding them I'd call the sheriffs office for animal cruelty. All they did was move them out of the corn stalks to somewhere else I couldn't see them. He shortly thereafter went belly up and good riddance.

BG you're a good man, wish we lived closer I'd get some hay for you.

[Peter Drouin]

Good job bill, and norm we think alike about the animal thing.I have neighbors with animals they feed them ok but no money for wood shavings so I try to help and give all the sawdust away, ill even del. and they do say thanks. I know they would help me, if in need, there all good people 

[Al_Smith]

Anybody that knows anything about horses knows for a fact in cold weather they need a little grain .Doesn't take all that much but some in addition to water and some type forage ,hay .

When I was youngster we shocked the remainder of the sweet corn ,nubbins and gave them a couple of ears per day each .It made them have a lusterous coat ,bright eyes .My dad said it fortified their blood and made for a healthy horse .High spirited  Arabian/Shetland show ponies .

The little stallion was a sight to behold ,head up he just pranced in grand style as if he were a million dollar racer .Much like a Jack Russel terrier it was just lucky for the world he only weighed about 400 pounds instead of 1500 . He was a hand full even that small .


Horses gain in popularity when economic times are good but sadly they fair very badly in bad times and become the subject of abuse .Very sad situation .

Ya done good by saving them from starving but likely the owners won't step up to the plate for whatever reason .They seldom do in situations like this .

[Corley5]

  Good job feeding the horses.  If you were in my neighborhood I'd donate some hay for the cause.  A neighbor had horses and thought she was doing so well with them.  Their little lot was just dirt.  Nothing green growing anywhere.  She'd put a bale in the ring and forget about it.  This wasn't bad in the winter when it's cold and dry but with no roof over the ring the hay would get wet and moldy the rest of the year and they were too lazy to feed the horses a little every day.  They'd make the horses eat every last nasty straw of hay before they'd roll a new bale in because "hay was so expensive and they had to eat all of it".  One time the horses were out of hay and I dumped the bales close enough to the gate so they could reach it.  Later that day they came out and instead of rolling the bale in for the horses they rolled it out of their reach    She bought her daughter another horse and paid several thousand dollars for it.  He came from a pampered horse place and only lasted a few weeks before he sand collicked and died.  They sold the other horse and were left with an older one who was half starved and looked it.  I made a deal with Larry, one of the neighbors, that I'd supply him an extra bale a month free of charge if he could talk Renee out of horse.  In the end he did but it took him a while because they loved that horse so much and her daughter took such good care of him    All the people in the nieghborhood felt sorry for the horse and someone did call animal control about the poor guy.  Larry and Jamie did get the horse with the stipulation that Renee and her daughter would have visitation rights    They never did come to see the old guy.  So I supplied a bale a month to keep him going, Larry spent a bunch on vet bills and special feed and the horse put on almost two hundred pounds and got to looking pretty good  but in his weakened state when winter came he developed pneumonia.  He recovered from that with a couple vet visits but few weeks later Larry found him dead one morning.  The vet figured it was heart failure as a result not only of the pneumonia but also the malnutrition he'd suffered before.  The old boys last few months were good ones 

[Patty]

The same thing is happening in our area. Folks are letting their horses starve to death because they cannot be sold and the owner can no longer provide for them. The Animal Rescue League has set up horse rescues for this very reason. They bring them back to health and see that they have good homes. Try calling your local ARL or the local humane society to get these poor beasts a good home. You are a good man for caring...

[terry f]

     Beenthere, I hope they get the slaughter market figured out. Around here people are dumping their horses on BLM land, you can't give a horse away. I've seen the other type owner, that lives like a poor person just so their horse can have the best. Bill, you will be rewarded.

[Roxie]

Bless you for feeding the horses.  Unfortunately, hay is not enough, and if the owners are negligent feeding them, what about vet care, hoof care, and dental care?  Horses that are not brushed regularly develop a coat condition called rain rot. 

You are doing a good thing, but sooner or later, the proper authorities will need to be notified when one goes down.  I know it's hard, but the kindest thing you can do is report the situation. 

[thecfarm]

Coley,kinda sounds like someone we know. We had 3 horses at one time. Yes,they do waste hay. This person was over and my wife says I have to give the horses some more hay. There was hay on the ground. This person says why,there is plenty on the ground. I wouldn't give them no more until they ate that. She also gives very LITTLE grain when it's cold too. I would always give them double when it got down to 10-15 °. She thought we was nuts to do that,What for? she asked.  She also thought we was crazy to give them hay,our fields have plenty of grass. All full of weeds the fields are in my eyes.

[Bill Gaiche]

I went to my 10 acres this morning 18 degrees at 8:30 to unload my kiln and put more in. Had some bur oak and walnut to sticker up in the shed. Did finally make contact with the owner of the hosses. Anyway this is what PC calls them. He told me right off he owes me and I told him that it was ok. He said that he has a job now. He said he didnt know where to get any hay. He said he heard of some about 50 miles away. I had a # for some hay. I called them in his presance and they had sold out. He did mention that he had given them some grain but I am not sure of that. He never mentioned that he was going to try and find any. I told him that I would keep checking and I left. I got to town and check at gas station and they didnt know of any. I took off east of town about 7 miles and located some. A fella had a bunch for sale. $90.00 per round bale. I bought 2. Delivered 1 and them hosses were tickled again. Took the other bale home. The owner was not home when I delivered the hay. Will take over the other as soon as they run out of the 1. Maybe I can find some grain to add along with the hay. Come on spring and green grass. The FF does have a bunch of animal lovers and that is good. We are supposed to take care of our families and our animals. Everyone stay warm and have a good day. bg

[WDH]

We are supposed to take care of our families and our animals.

Those are the words of the day.

[Al_Smith]

 I think in these days the problem is compounded due to the fact everything is those gigantic round bales .With the older 80 pound bales you can handle them by hand.Keep them  in the dry etc .

Big old thousand pound round bale what can you do with it ? You can't arm strong it .So there it lays out in the weather ,gets wet .The horses waller it around .Wet spoiled hay causes collicy horses.Eventually it will kill them .

[scsmith42]

Bill, kudo's to you for doing the humane thing for those horses!  There has been a lot of great advice on this thread re feeding, grain, hoof care, etc, as well as the root cause issue related to the closure of US slaughter hauses (which significantly worsened the plight of man horses).

Some good news is that the U.S. Congress recently passed a bill providing budget for the USDA slaughter house inspectors, so hopefully some of the U.S. based locations will re-open soon and we will see a reduction in horse starvation situations.

If you are able to contain the hay in some type of covered bale feeder, it will last much longer.  If you've ever watched a horse urinate, you will notice that if they have a choice between going on the hard ground or going over a pile of hay, they usually select the hay pile every time.  The only logical theory that I have heard explaining why is that they are trying to prevent the splatter back up on their legs.  However, the hay is ruined....

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet or not, but be sure that they always have access to good water.  One of the leading causes of colic in horses is if they go off of their feed or water for several hours.

Best of success to you in your endeavor; it is indeed a very worthy one.

Scott

[rockman]

Bill, Thanks for keeping us posted on the plight of the horses. You know alot of people would notice the starving horses, but not many would be willing to spend thier own time and money to do the right thing. If there was a Member of the week or month, you would certianly qualify. From one animal lover to another, THANK YOU for what your doing.

 Kevin

[Brad_bb]

I have to disagree with everyone here.  I think Bill did the wrong thing.  Once he put the hay out, the Humane Society could not pursue the owner.  What he's done, by the order of what he did, is like enabling a drug addict. 
   If the owner of the horses does not have the resources to care for the animals, he needs to- give the horses to someone who can and will care for them, ask the Humane society or other rescue group for help.  By allowing the animals to go without food, he was treating them cruely and should have immediately asked for help. 
   Bill's first contact should have been to the owner, and if he didn't get a good feeling right off, then should have immediately contacted the authorities, like the Humane Society.  After doing that, THEN you could quickly get the horses hay.  Unfortuneatly by putting hay out BEFORE contacting the Humane Society, to drastically delay possible seizure of the animals, and thus getting them the real help they need.  If there's hay out there, the authorities cannot make a case for lack of food and thus cannot get a seizure warrant. 
  Feeding the horses grain could be very dangerous and could actually end up killing the horses, if given too much grain too quickly, especially if they are not eating hay or grass at the same time.  Hoof issues are a serious problem that will kill horses just as fast as anything.  Overgrown hooves, abscesses, thrush, etc can cause a horse to go down which leads to a whole host of problems.  It sounded like the horses not only needed food, but also some vet care, and a ferrier.  If Bill starts providing and shelling out money, it enables the owner to continue to act irresponsibly.  Why should he pay if Bill is willing to? 
   Bill's heart is in the right place, but sometimes we can end up doing more harm than good if we don't consider everything.  Bill shouldn't have to bear the cost all himself, better to get the Humane Society involved, then contribute to them, or become a foster.

[beenthere]

Brad
That sounds like a lawyers' approach to the problem.
I'm glad the horses got some hay.
Hopefully their future is brighter than their past.

[Norm]

Sounds like you've never dealt with the humane society, or have a better view of them than me.

I like his approach a lot better.

[Magicman]

All that Bill has to do is to make a statement to any authorities that he provided hay/food.  The amount that Bill provided did not fatten them up or remove the threat of starvation.  It simple provided nutrients until something better happens for the animals.

Doing the "right" thing in the "wrong" way is still wrong.  Intentionally or knowingly withholding food until the "right" thing is done is wrong.   At least it would have been for the animals.  Sometimes you have to take care of the obvious before proceeding to the legalities.

Brad, I understand your point, but I also understand Bill's.

[Brad_bb]

I think the key is often getting the animals in the hands of those financially able and willing to care for the animal.  If I couldn't, I'd be the first to ask for help of give them up if it was in their best interest.  I wasn't slamming Bill, I just suggest doing things in a way that gets the best longterm care for the animals.  Unfortunately I see too many animals around me, horses especially that are not properly cared for...that and I'm an alumnus of the Culver Black Horse Troop.

[Paul_H]

Brad,It's good to have different viewpoints,it's even kind of refreshing and sounds like you know your horses.
When we logged down the lake a few years ago,there were some horses from the reserve that would wander around and feed off other people's fields and were covered in burrs.
A guy I worked with contacted the spca because he was concerned that the horses wandering along the logging road in the winter were starving.They came to have a look and said that while some of them had ribs showing,their rumps were in good shape,no protruding hip bones but they would contact the owner and tell him to shape up and take better care or they would take action.
He shot all 33 of them(6 belonged to another man) and let them lay where they dropped for the coyotes and ravens.He's got more horses again.

The pics of the horses here were taken in our yard in the fall of 08 and were some of the same ones later shot.In the pic here they are finishing up on any apples and garden leftovers as well as grass.They made a mess of the lawn but left some good fertiliser for the garden next spring.I got a couple skidsteer buckets of manure from their stay in our yard

[Brad_bb]

So did the spca follow up and take action?  Were they made aware of the shooting?  I feel that good citizens also have a responsibility to follow up on such situations.  Some of the organizations like the spca, and our border patrol as another example, need the help of citizens as the problems are just that big.  If there were enough people policing their own communities, maybe some of these deadbeats would think twice about their actions?

[Paul_H]

They were aware,yes but not many outside the reserve were aware.As far as policing the community,some horses had been shot by landowners for tresspassing on their property and I considered that action myself momentarily but chose to allow them to feed and move on.

While I don't agree with the owners methods,they belonged to him and It's still a free country.You can see by the pics that they are pretty healthy looking and the spca might have taken that into account before approaching a reclusive man well known for his mental instability.

[Bill Gaiche]

Went over today to take some implements over and check the horses. I stopped at the owners trailer and he came out. I told him that I got hay the day before and he didnt know it. He said that he had some money but not what it cost. I know that he has just gone back to work and his family needs every dime they can get. I told him that I would work a deal with him if he was intrested. He has 2 10' erc logs laying in the yard. We had talked about them the day before. He was trying to sell them to a mill. They came off his families Indian alotted land and there is more. I said that if we could get a couple more nice trees I would be satisfied. He says ok. I said I would cut them and said that he would help. So I am hoping for about 6-8 more nice logs would be fair to me and I could use them in some of my projects. At least this way he has contributed something of value and something I could use. This may not be the best deal in the world, but it will be fine for me. We talked about 1 1/2 hours today. He is really a nice fellow it seems to me. They are poor people, 4 girls and a wife which has a bad leg. They live in very poor conditions. Maybe they could have done better in life but it hasnt happened to them yet. Not all are blessed with a little more, which they can help someone in need. I just happen to have a little extra at this time to be able to do that. He treats me with respect at this time. Now I can understand how some people feel about things like what is happening and thats good. In my situation, my property is at the end of the road and nobody can see it. The main gate 1/2 mile down the road is closed all the time.  have had this property 4 years and nobody has been on my place but me. I concidered making the call and then I tell myself if I do and the authority takes some action whom do you think they would blame for the one that turned them in? (Me) I have a shed, kiln, lumber, brush hog and disc on the propertty. He could become angry and burn my stuff to the ground and there would be a good chance that I couldnt prove that he did it. If I did they would throw him in jail and now My taxes will be paying his keep and the family has no income or dad. I will loose more this way because I will have to replace eveything out of my pocket. This way I choose I believe will work best in this situation, but maybe not for others. I also believe that he kinda watches out for trespassers.I am hoping for a good year for him and his hosses. Time will tell. I will deal with this as time comes along. I do appreciate everyones input. Everybody have a good week, bg

[Bill Gaiche]

The horses have been good at not tearing up the bale. They have been walking away from the hay to pee. They do poop close, good fertilizer, but they have eaten every blade of hay. Maybe they will get some of that special treatment that some of you have spoken of, Hooves, teeth and coat. I am not a horse person so I dont know all there needs. With a little luck maybe they will be treated better in the future. bg

[Brad_bb]

After not enough to eat, eating too much hay quickly can cause colic, which untreated could kill them.  They need a vet examination.  Obviously they do not have the resources to care for the animals.  Talk him into giving them up.
   On one hand you say he's a nice guy, then on the other you're afraid he'll burn your house down 

[js2743]

Bill you have done the right thing, sounds like you have made a friend by feeding the horses for the family. They will never forget what you have done for them,  maybe you could get the man to help you with sawing in return for the hay.  Im sure you have something the Girls could do also to help you with, wouldnt hurt to ask their dad. if you have something they could help you with your wife could use some help cleaning or something im sure. just some thoughts to help recover your cost and still be friends.

[Migal]

Congrat's Bill on you parents giving you Morals as for the negative spokesman in this post well guess thats why we have law's to tell us what to do. Keep following your heart sounds to me you have made a difference. I would hate to think that we need a law to tell us what is the right thing to do. Oh MM this is the 2 read I've done in hole... How's that Cabin? 

[Roxie]

Migal, there is no "negative spokesman" in this thread.  There is a person who has knowledge about equine care and his opinion is valued, just as your opinion is valued.  The fact that he disagrees with the majority of posters as to the welfare of the horses does not make him negative, quite the contrary, he is sincerely concerned.

Please stay focused on the issue being discussed and not the individual.   

[chain]

Yes I have seen your kind of situation, but those horses in your photos look fairly well-fed. At least around here the HS would clear those horses.

We had a fellow come through on a two-horse team covered wagon. I believe he was from Oklahoma also. He had broken his lines and stopped to try to find replacements, he said he was a Civil War reenactor going to Gettysburg, Pa. to commemorate a battle. He didn't make it and would never have made it as his horses were starving, they were two bags of bones. A friend,  a preacher, and I helped him with his lines and found some good alfalfa hay and loaded it up on the wagon. He almost made it across the Mississippi river bridge but ...the Society got him, arrested him, and confiscated the animals.

Another case here very close to home where five horses and two mules girdled several hugh American elm trees; after they had killed those[trees] they got down in a borrow pit grown-up with willows, they ate the bark off those too. Finally, the HS got wind of the situation and gave a two week notice to feed hoses or else. The owners fed the horses, but dead trees , those were the most magificent elms in the county.

[thecfarm]

Bill,sounds like a good trade,at least he is willing to do something. Lots more than just feeding a horse. We had 3 all at once one time. Takes money to shoe a horse or trim the hoofs,file the teeth when they get older. Gets cold up here,so blankets are needed or should be used. I do hope they are brushing them and talking to them and just being around them.

[Paul_H]

there is no "negative spokesman" in this thread.  There is a person who has knowledge about equine care and his opinion is valued,

We said Roxie.