LT40 Or LT70?

[038magnum]

I have narrowed my Woodmizer mill down to 2, but I can't decide. The Lt40 looks like the most popular Woodmizer mill in this forum. I want hydraulics and the debarker. The LT70 has a faster log turner and everything that I want is standard on the mill. What I don't want to do is fork out all that money for a mill and after having it for a while, wishing later that I had bought the more expensive mill.
 So you guys with Woodmizers got to help me decide!

1. The ones that have the sawhead mounted controls:
 Do you get tired of walking?
 Do you hate walking around that tire?
 Is the seat worth having?

2.Having the controls at the end of the mill:
 Is this expensive option worth it?
 Is this the best place to see what is going on?
 Do any of you like or dislike the new joy stick controls on the LT70?

3. The ones with the LT40's:
 Do you wish that you had bought a LT70?

I know that it is up to the user and their personal preference but I am going to be spending a big chunk of change for this mill and I don't want to screw up.
I want to do like many of you and start a portable sawmill service, so I want a mill that will hold up and last many years.
The LT70 is so much more expensive and I am wondering if it is worth it. However production will be there when needed.
Thanks for helping me with my gas vs diesel post, You all know your stuff!
 

[redbeard]

 you might want too consider the LT 50 loaded with all the options, It would be a nice heavy duty portable mill

[JFarmer]

I am with redbeard. I would consider the LT50. I have owned both the 70 and 40 and they both have their drawbacks. The 50 has the same turner and side supports as the 70 but the blades are not as long on the 50 making them cheaper!

[Woodey]

You would like either mill, woodmizer makes a good mill. I use a LT40HDD with autoset and it serves all my needs. 

[Amax]

I wish I could help but I have exactly the same dilemma.

Guess I'll just sit back and  the replies and hope it helps me make a decision.  I have a few months yet.  The LT40 seems awful popular though.  But by the time you add a few options you are pretty much looking at the price of an LT50 so I understand where redbeard and JFarmer are coming from.

If business goes well I'm sure the additional expense of the 70 would easily be justifiable... if it goes less than well... well let's not focus on the negative.

Al

[Amax]

I am with redbeard. I would consider the LT50. I have owned both the 70 and 40 and they both have their drawbacks. The 50 has the same turner and side supports as the 70 but the blades are not as long on the 50 making them cheaper!

Mind me asking why you went to the 40 from the 70 other than perhaps the cost of blades eluded to above?

Al

[Brucer]

1. The ones that have the sawhead mounted controls:
 Do you get tired of walking?
 Do you hate walking around that tire?
 Is the seat worth having?

 No, it keeps my weight down.
 Yes, but I live with it.
 Not for me -- some likes it, I wouldn't.

2.Having the controls at the end of the mill:
 Is this expensive option worth it?
 Is this the best place to see what is going on?
 Do any of you like or dislike the new joy stick controls on the LT70?

If I were cutting mostly 1" & 2", I would definitely probably want it. Keep in mind that you're limited to a 27' length -- mill plus one 6' extension. A foot less with the LT70. That won't work for me right now because I'm sawing mainly timbers, and up to 32'.

In my particular setup having the controls stationary at the front of the mill would speed up the offloading a lot.

Haven't used the joysticks but I was looking over a guys shoulder as he ran one. I would want to try one for a bit before deciding.

3. The ones with the LT40's:
 Do you wish that you had bought a LT70?

At first I wished I could have afforded one. But over the years I'm starting to think that I'd go for a Super Hydraulic with the biggest diesel they offer. The chain turner on the LT50 is nice but I'm not sure if the extra money is worth it (for me, in my operation).

I know that it is up to the user and their personal preference but I am going to be spending a big chunk of change for this mill and I don't want to screw up.

Depends if you've done much sawing. I ran another guys mill for a year before I bought my own so I knew what I was getting into. I still started with a less mill than I wanted, because I didn't have the bucks. No problem selling it a year later and upgrading. I sure would hate to invest in an LT70 with all the bells and whistles and then decide I didn't like the work.

[Kansas]

Other questions to ask yourself is, what do you think the quality of logs will be like you will be cutting? How do you plan on charging, by the bd ft or hour? Seems like the 70 would be overkill on what I see for a lot of custom cut logs. People may balk at the higher price you have to charge if you own the 70.

As far as blades, do you think you will wind up cutting some yard trees? The cheaper blades on the 40 would be the way to go. If not, then the cost difference per board foot is negligible. Another thing to consider. Weight and length. Both in transport and getting it into the invariably tight spots that arise with portable sawmilling.

[stavebuyer]

I have a LT70DCS. Remote everything is nice but will cost you considerably more per ft sawed and gain you very little in production if your not going have help. The remote joysticks can sometimes cost extra steps when edging on the mill by yourself. I feel like you need an edger and 3 people to overcome the higher blade costs and purchase price.

[FeltzE]

I've got an LT 40hydraulic super since 96.  With a Baker edger in line.  Primary source of timber is tree removal services, (residential timber) Enemy is Tramp Metal.



Production wise, I'd recommend (if you have help) getting an edger or at least budgeting it. It definitely increases through put and reduces handling.

Seat - I have one, hanging in the barn. We used it a bunch the first year, now not at all.

Tire - Yes a pain to walk around occasionally trip over and sometimes step on to look over a log. But livable

Walking -
  - Good, You can look at the grain and defects and make sawing decisions for grade logs close up.
  - Bad, I have to run the length of the sawcut back each trip, and to the edger when working alone. It's a lot of walking throughout the work day, I don't have a remote, but would like to try one. If I were buying new, I'd get it.


First sawmill? You may want to consider a fully hydraulic used mill and test your market.  I know WM has great service and parts availability. I'm sure the other guys do too. You can save a little initial investment and work out the bugs. Alternatively, come visit and spend a day or 3 with a bandmill owner and run on yourself.  I'm in NC if you want to visit.


Eric

[Magicman]

I have never used a Command Control equipped sawmill so I can't speak to that, but my option is using a seat.  Of course I have to remove it when sawing 20' logs, but it quickly goes back on.  I have no problem walking, but riding, I am above the sawing and can see better.  This week while sawing some very large Cypress, I was actually sitting on top of the seat's back a few times.

Seat drawback, if the wind is in your face you have no where to go.  Of course when walking you do not either.

The LT70 is more of a production sawmill and to realize the benefits, more help is required.

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

Jesi said I could go strait for a 70 if I wanted one which I dang well do one day as we are pretty sure we are going to get a 40hyd for portable work and see where it goes from there     I see a 70 being more productive for relocatable sawing plus with an edger and a tail out table or better yet in a shed with The Lot  Log Infeed Deck ,LT70,Inclined Conveyor & Transfer Table ,Edger and mostlikely a single or multi head resaw and three to 4 good people to run it wide open  If your planing on going portable where you will be working solo at times you wont be seeing the full potential off the 70 imho but that being said if you want a mill thats about good as it gets for a portable band the 70 is the ducks nuts as I loved using Jakes mills and a 40 with 35hp diesel will pull a band through alot of log at a fair pace as I looked at a Mighty Mite 4B here bout 2 years ago and thought 35 would be a bit light for the size off mill but it pulled it bloody well Mate

Walk alongs good for keeping the mill flexeble in what yo can do with it and for purchase/resale price the comand control would be the option when you know that you are going to be sawing standard lengths 99% of the time  and Like Bruce said It keeps you fit Mate

Kansas brought up some realy good points with knowing your log supply and where they are coming from with regards to mill selection  band costs its better to wipeout a cheap .045 1&¼ band on rough logs than ruin a .055 1&½ or 2" band in a unknown log supply 

What experience do you have with portable sawmills is this going to be your first sawmill

Regards Chris

[POSTONLT40HD]

Magnum, there is nothing more than I can add here. I have the LT 40 HD. My mill is stationary under my shed.
I am a 1 man show when I mill. I do not have the seat and did not want it. My mill has everything else on it.
I would not change a thing or GO BIGGER.

Me and my LT 40 make plenty of money. I mill at my pace and have a ball talking wood with my customers.

Every member that has replied has given some good advice. Personally, I would get the LT 40 or 50 and any extras will be what ever you think will fit your working needs. You can only answer that.

Good Luck.....GO ORANGE!

[Chris Burchfield]

LT40SH W/Command Control; 51HP Cat, I've done a little mobil sawing for others.  Most is for myself around the farm.  I didn't want to ride or walk all day.  I stand at the end and operate mill.  If I need to look at a board's grain, I look at it when I drag the board to me to load on the trailer behind me.  I saw by myself most of the time.  I don't think I could justify the extra expense of anything bigger.  I don't saw nearly as much as others on the board here.  I do enjoy operating my mill as I ordered it.

[mjl_2007]

I have the LT50 (47hp Yanmar) with operator's seat and WM double blade edger. The tire did bother me some (after hitting my shins on it a few times) so that's why I went to the operator seat and I really like that. I'm 6'4", so being able to sit, I can see the blade better and it just seems like production goes faster than walking with the sawhead. I'm set up stationary inside a building 80% of the time, but the only drawback I have found to having the sawhead mounted controls is when I am sawing outside and the wind blows toward the controls. You can usually avoid that if you check the wind before setting up the mill, but some days the wind just doesn't cooperate. I have never ran an LT40 with the claw turner, but I have seen many operate and I can say that the chain turner is much faster. The LT50 sure is a nice "crossover" mill in my opinion.

[slider]

038 magnum,i started with a 40 hydraulic 24 onan then later got a 70 with remote station.i do like the remote ,i can saw from either end.i do like the chain turner over the claw turner and the dual plane clamp is much better than the old style.i would say for what i do a lt50 would be just fine with me.like others have said unless you have help and are looking for some big numbers i wouldn't go above a 50 .unless you find a deal on a good used one.that is what i did.best of luck to you    al

[jdonovan]

1. The ones that have the sawhead mounted controls:
 Do you get tired of walking?
 Do you hate walking around that tire?
 Is the seat worth having?

no, there is enough walking for other tasks, that the little bit of saw walk along is not bad.
yes!!!
if I had enough help that I didn't have to leave the saw head... perhaps. But you still have to get out to run the log turner, and other hydro functions.

If I was buying new I'd give very serious consideration to the new wireless control option. I like that it retains saw-head manual controls, but gives me the freedom to saw from any location I want.

I think a 40-super, wireless controls, and diesel would be a very nice setup for what I want to do.

[JFarmer]

When I had my LT70 electric, I was cutting walnut for another local mill. On a good day we have sawn 100 logs a day. But I was working 2 men in the ground and they couldn't keep up so I had to hire a third hand. The deal I had sawing walnut came to an end so I decided to sell my 70. I already had my LT40 so I went back to sawing with it. It has the stationary remote and it is more easy to operate by yourself than the 70. So if you decide to go with the 70, you might want to consider hiring some help if you can find someone who is willing to work.

[zopi]

Consider cost breakpoint...is this mill going to sit at all? If yes...the forty os the best bet...
If it is going to saw balls out all day all week all year...a seventy may be the way to go.

The parts and maintenance costs go up sharply as the equipme.t gets more complex.

I have about decided the 40 Super with a diesel is about the sweet spot for a mobile sawyer.
Sawing just for me amd am occasional customer? Forty.

[038magnum]

You guys are GREAT!
You have told me things that I have not even considered yet.
So don't hold back!
Keep those cards and letters coming.
Thanks again for everyone's input.

[customsawyer]

I have run a LT40 and now have a two LT70s one that is walk along and one that is remote. The remote is helpful when doing portable work. The walk along mill is setup in a stationary situation and hooked up to a 24' ext.  If your plan is to do mostly portable work I would not recommend the LT70 as it is more mill than you will be able use. On most of your portable jobs the amount of lumber produced is going to be less than 10,000 bf. The LT40 is a great mill and will do all you need it to.

[CLL]

I had a lt40hd and loved it, the walking was no big deal, however I would NEVER buy a new mill and not have a edger to go with it. You have to have an extra man but the sawing is so much faster you wouldn't believe it. Woodmizer makes great mills, but most of all is the service that comes with them.

[MartyParsons]

Hello,
Lots of good information here.
The questions I ask are ( some of these have all ready been posted)
Are you sawing alone?
Are you moving the mill as custom sawing business?
Are you planning on moving the mill 2 3 4 times a day?
Is this a stationary mill?
Do you have employees?
Where do you see your business in 2 ,4, 6 years from today?
What market are you selling your product to. Wholesale or End user?
Do you have a kiln?
And the list may go on depending on your answer.
This lets me and you think through your purchase.

I have many customers who have LT70 who saw over 1 Million feet per year with three support persons and a edger.

We like the command control on the LT40 vs the seat. Not many seats sold in out area but if you go to the mid west there are lots. I had a customer sell me one this week that was never used. It is a 93.
The blade cost from the 40 to the 70 is about $ 7.00 per blade difference.
Most customers in our area are running a 1 1/4 .055 thick blade on the LT70. The LT70 has 24" wheels the LT40, has 19".
I can go on forever.
Marty

[ladylake]

 I'd vote for the LT50, doesn't  cost that much more than the 40 and those chain turners work good.   Steve

[Jim H]

I saw portable with a lt40 hyd. I have the 28 hp gas and have no trouble keeping two offbearers busy, a super hyd would be nice but in a lot of situations the help wouldn't be able to keep up. Another consideration is how you will charge. I charge by the hour and would have to raise my rate to compensate for the added cost of a faster mill even though it would sometimes be hard to utilize the extra capacity. The other thing you must do is learn to operate the mill efficiently. I've had several customers tell me I was faster than sawyers they previously used that were running supers.

[Meadows Miller]

The other thing you must do is learn to operate the mill efficiently.

Jim Welcome to The Forum  Your Spoton There Mate    Alot off sawmills rarely make it to full production potential 

[Bandmill Bandit]

I have an LT40HDG28. I love it!

How ever, I will either continue down the road os turning this one into a "modified super" or I will buy a new super and do my mods to it.

This next comment comes for a very reliable source that I will not identify but that has many years experience with quite a few mills most being Woodmizer. "Log for Log $ for $ the LT70 doesn't give you the MBF per hour that the LT40 Super will and it is some what higher maintenance machine.

I think if we took a poll we'd  find that the most common woodmizer in service for people making a living with their sawmill, it would be an LT40SHD with some where around 40 HP on it.

The chain turner would be nice but I know that I would not go to a 70 to get that. A  50 maybe but I have a concern with the log stops on both those models. I dont see how the seals can last in those rams and I would not be making lumber when they need to be replaced. I have talked to a couple of owners that have had this issue with not a lot of hours on the mill so for me I'd stick the LT40 Super.

As Jim H says, the help has more effect on production than the mill once you make the jump to hydraulic.

How you stage your milling area has just as much impact.

I can tell you that with the box heart lodge pole pine 6"X12"X20' beams I cut Wednesday for the current job, I only have to load the roll way twice a day with about 20 to 24 (12 to 18 inch) logs at a time.  That roll way cuts loading time to seconds in stead of minutes. I think I will probably be able to get about 12 to 15 by 22"+ logs on that roll way.

 
 
looking north east current job site.


Looking north west

My mill site is divided into to 2 half circles. The operator side gets the finished lumber piles the hitch end around to the roll way gets the slabs, waste/firewood etc. End of the roll way is kept clear for a equipment access with mill ready logs about 80 to 100 feet from end of roll way. Area to the tail end of mill is kept clear for truck/loading unloading area. At worst I am generally about a 200 feet max from the furtherest point in that circle. in good 2" by 12' finished material coming out od 22" and bigger logs I have no trouble making WoodMizers production rates and minimum 20% to 25% higher. The help is the bigest factor.

Power will help feet per minute feed rate but the ability to move logs quickly is a bigger advantage IMHO.

If my help is good enough that I can park my butt in the Operator seat and not have to get off it, I can cut a lot of wood in a day. If I have to get off and on then the seat comes off cause it slows me down. I will take a couple more pics on Monday and post them here as well.
 




   

[038magnum]

On the 40 vs 70 blades. Because the 70 uses 24" wheels and the blades are bigger. Will they last longer? Also how many times can you sharpen blades. Will they eventually just break or not be able to sharpen again?

[Bandmill Bandit]

On the 40 vs 70 blades. Because the 70 uses 24" wheels and the blades are bigger. Will they last longer? Also how many times can you sharpen blades. Will they eventually just break or not be able to sharpen again?

Not sure how much difference the bigger wheels make on blade life but I would expect there would be some advantage but I dont think it would be that much.

On sharpening cycles, I get and average of about 7 or 8 per blade and they just break around that point. Most cycles I have had was 11. I find that running right around the 2000PSI mark on the tension gauge and changing blades  earlier rather than later helps blade life quite a bit.  Least was 1 broke on the first the first log it cut.

I am using the 045X1.5 10* double hard WoodMizer bands. I use the CBN grinder and a single tooth setter that I modified in to a dual tooth setter. I set the teeth both before and after sharpening. With the dual tooth setter it is so quick to set that the extra set cycle is worth it. I have noticed a good improvement in quality of cut and reduced wavy lumber issues as well.

Just my 2 bits worth. 

[Kansas]

The bigger wheels on the LT70 makes a difference if you decide to go with thicker blades. We tried the .055 on the LT40; they didn't last many sharpening cycles. With the bigger wheels on the 70, I would say you can get the same number of sharpenings as the .045 would get on the 40. Stability seems to be better on the .055 on the 70. But its pretty well splitting hairs. On a per board foot basis, I don't see where there is enough difference. We never really studied it,  but on a board foot basis, I would guess you would be talking only a part of a penny per board foot. So much depends on the mill, what you are cutting, how fast you pull the blade. Its been our experience that blade cost per board foot is negligible, unless you are encountering a bunch of metal.

The cost if you get 3000 feet out of a 38 dollar blade is .102 of a penny. If you can get multiple sharpenings and get 8000 feet, you are talking .004 of a penny. But in either case, that cost is the least of your worries.

[paul case]

I just couldn't understand your numbers. $38 divided by 3000 is $.013. and divided by 8000ft I come up with half a penny a foot. Is there something I am missing? PC

[Kansas]

No, you are correct. I should not have added "of a penny" and I transposed the first numbers as well. For rounding purposes, you are completely correct.

[paul case]

That is some pretty good return/life from a blade. I got to figuring last night on how much I get from my 1 ¼x.042x7/8 blades. They cost me about $18 and I usually get an average of 300 ft per sharpening or a little more and 7 sharpenings or so. that works out to 2100 ft per $18 blade, which is $.009 bdft. Thats making your bands pay. PC

[customsawyer]

Bandmill Bandit the side supports on a LT70 are not rams on a hyd. cylinder they are just supports. Thus no seals to replace. As to operating cost if the mill and all the log/lumber handling is efficient then the production is there to offset the cost. I do agree with you that it is more important to master how you handle the logs, lumber and to have your setup in such a manor that you are able to keep the blade in the wood. I try to teach my help that if we figure out a way to cut 1 second out of the production of each board it will give us some extra logs at the end of the day. You made some very valid points. I said it before but I don't see any way to get the production out of a LT70 on portable jobs. IMHO this mill is best in a stationary operation. With edger, log deck and extra help.

[Cypress Sam]

I would say the 50 It's going to be alot easier to set up on a job site. I have ran my neighbors 70.  its great but it never moves. the best rule of equipment  is buy one size bigger than you think you will need.  I have a 35 and should have gotten a 40 shd. 

Sam

[Bandmill Bandit]

Yea CS

I never thought of a comparison in those terms and it is not an apples to apples comparison to compare mobile to stationary. The LT70 is better suited to a stationary set up where the added infrastructure is available to compliment the mill to maximize production. While similar infrastructure will add productivity to an LT40 Super the LT70 will still out produce the LT40 super. Probably by quite a bit.

It is just not practical to haul that kind of infrastructure around the country in a mobile operation.

An important consideration when deciding on a mill! IMHO

Im mobile so those are the terms I think in.

Good point and well taken here.

[backwoods sawyer]

I run a LT-70 100% portable.
Log handling at the site and lay out of milling site are big factors, but the LT-70 with the chain turner speeds up handling of the logs while they are on the mill allowing me to keep the saw in the wood more, as does the accuset 2 which allows you to drop into the cut and have the saw to speed when it reaches its mark, and you are back into the cut with no hesitations.  The accuset 2 is available on both mills and is a big asset for production.  The .055 saws have more beam strength allowing for slightly faster feed rates. 
What it boils down to is, if a half ton truck will fit your needs get a half ton truck, but if you need a one ton truck get a one ton truck, yes it cost more to operate and maintain a one ton truck, but if that is what fits your needs you will be happy with your decision.