Author Topic: tree clamp ????? (Read 2050 times)

robotguy · « **on:** February 10, 2004, 08:46:13 pm »

i need to find / invent, a tree clamp.
criteria is a follows
1. can't damage the tree surface (bark) (minor cosmetic is o;k)
2. can't damage (short & long term) the tree bark or the growth area directly under the bark.
3. needs to support 2 ton by itself or 4 ton in tandum with another clamp. (two clamps on two seperate trees with a bar or cable strung between the two to support a load about 7 feet off the ground).
4. needs to be mechanically installed & de-installed if possable.
5. lighweight for job site transport.
6. diameter of tree to be *clamped* is about 12" to 18".

i have seen anchor tree's where a cable has been wrapped around it for logging & stripped of the bark down to the wood exposing it , and the tree lived & the bark was re-growing back, but that is totally unacceptable for what i need . i have consider'd using slings (nylon) but may not be feasable for continious or robotic installation use.

my main concern is for the tree,s so that they remain un-damaged once i detach the clamp as i dont know what damage may result due to *pressure* on the bark from the clamp. any words of wisdom on this specific subject is greatly appreciated.

i have a few idea's for this *clamp* such as using tire rubber for surface contact with tree bolted to the *clamp*, ect, ect, but someone here may have already seen/used something similiar,
thank's in advance for the help

robotguy.

Stephen_Wiley · « **Reply #1 on:** February 11, 2004, 05:59:35 am »

Do I understand you correctly: ...........your wanting to use a 12" to 18" tree as a anchor tree? Is this a d.b.h. measurement?

Little confused - here as to what your wanting to do!

If your not wanting to harm the tree, (item 4) mechanical installation will cause wounding.

Can you give a little more information as to what you need an anchor point for?

rebocardo · « **Reply #2 on:** February 11, 2004, 03:43:57 pm »

If I was worried about damaging a tree, I would try a 4" wide strap, put tire rubber under the strap, and wrap the strap around that rubber ring twice to spread the load and prevent pinching. If you are using it for a winch point.

Kevin · « **Reply #3 on:** February 11, 2004, 05:22:27 pm »

A sling on the tree or trees and a rope.
No clamp.
Maybe add guying using rope.

robotguy · « **Reply #4 on:** February 11, 2004, 07:02:41 pm »

sorry about the confusion,, the thickness of the anchor tree is 12" to 18" thick ( don't know how that translates into d.b.h.)
and the reason for the *clamp* is to support a cable /rope so i can * trolly* equipment & wood in & out of the woods,
the attaching of the *clamp* to the tree would not be mechanically installed or * bolted into the tree* but placed around the tree for supporting a load , thus the concern for damaging the tree.
i am working on a prototype piece of equipment for the forestry industry and one of the operations is to have a robotic arm do some work that a forest worker does ( thinning , limbing, ect, ect ) . the *clamp* thing is what i am seeking info on as i can't/ wont harm the anchor tree
i have a few ideas on it's design but wanted to hear from the pro's who have been there / done that .
(still working on getting these smiley faces in the right spot)

thanks robotguy

beenthere · « **Reply #5 on:** February 11, 2004, 08:52:52 pm »

robotguy

You first said ""needs to be mechanically installed & de-installed if possable."" then you later said in last post ""would not be mechanically installed "".

I don't understand what "mechanically installed" means, (but with the name "robotguy" I might conjure up something in my mind.

) Could you explain it? Thanks.

As far as not having an effect on the tree you are anchoring to, if this "device" is on the tree and putting a load on the cambial growing layer under the bark, I suspect it could damage the growth of the tree. Maybe consider vertical slats around the tree, with your nylon strapping wrapping on those slats, holding the slats snug to the tree while they distribute the load. Seems this method might not have a girdling effect on the tree. During the growing season is when I would imagine an effect on the tree. Damaging? I don't know about that. The species of tree would likely play a role in how much effect your "clamp" system has on the tree - i.e. bark thickness.

Stephen_Wiley · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2004, 07:31:48 am »

d.b.h. = diameter at breast height (4.5 feet) from high point of ground surface.

I think I have a better understanding of what it is your trying to do.

My recommendation would be to stay away from ' tree clamps'. As regardless of design they will still be causing extreme pressure resulting in girdling of the cambium. And depending upon tree species make actually result in uprooting the tree.

Have you considered anchor rods, which could be screwed or angularly driven ?

rebocardo · « **Reply #7 on:** February 14, 2004, 05:53:56 pm »

If you have access to a Bobcat, here is what I would suggest. Forget attaching an overhead load to a tree you are worried about damaging. Trees taper upwards and I think you would have to use literally tons of pressure to make sure the clamp stayed there, without cutting into the bark.

Take an eight foot lolly column, 1/4 steel tubing, 4 inches diameter, filled with min. 5000 psi concrete, put 600 pounds of cement on the end (block) with steel rods running through the column and through the newly poured cement block. Then bury it four feet deep.

Of the exposed four feet, you can drill through the middle of the column and attach 1 inch grade 8 hardware that will support just about any pulling load. I doubt you would be able to pull it out of the ground without snapping or bending the pole, which will take some doing. If it starts to pull out under load, just replace the dirt over the buried block with cement. It is cheap and it is heavy.

Randall · « **Reply #8 on:** February 15, 2004, 12:21:08 pm »

How about this? Get a 1/8" x 3" to 4" steel flat about 3' long. Weld U bolts at the ends and middle on one side at right angles to the flat strap. bend the strap in a U shape around whatever tree you want. For an 18"- 24" tree I guess the strap would be around 3' long. Thread the rope, chain, etc through the three U bolts. This would spread the pressure across the 3-4" around the tree and you could even yank the chain around the tree without hurting it. If you had to actully "clamp" the thing to the tree you could drill 3/4" holes in each end and bend them up so that when you bent the strap all the way around the tree you could attach the ends with a 3/4" bolt. The strap length would have to be specific to the tree though. I'm planing to do this if I ever need to use a tree as an anchor. Let me know if this is what you might want.

Furby · « **Reply #9 on:** February 16, 2004, 02:31:11 pm »

Sounds like any movement will put a lot of pressure on the tree at the edges of the flat stock. I think a webbed strap would be more forgiving. My 2 cents. :-/

Tom · « **Reply #10 on:** February 16, 2004, 02:42:26 pm »

Here, it is standard procedure for any tree that is used as an anchor tree to be part of the harvest. No way has been devised to leave it unharmed. Most that I've seen are used in swamp logging where the logs are high-lined out.

Ron Scott · « **Reply #11 on:** February 16, 2004, 04:17:26 pm »

It's pretty much the same way here. Select a tree that you will harvest near the end of the job or after it has served its helpful purpose. Do not select a quality "save" tree. Any heavy activity on, around, or near it will probably do it harm or degrade its potential future quality.

robotguy · « **Reply #12 on:** February 23, 2004, 09:34:10 pm »

found something in the skogma catalog , strap that wraps around & winches snug , ( found a portable gas powered winch i really found interesting) , so looks likes so far, the strap thing is going to be the way to go ,, i had considered that in my options, but mechanical installation onto an anchor tree was the draw back so will put that on the * to-do* list . talked with a b.l.m. guy today and found out about the *ea* (enviromental assesment) ,,, found out that appears to be some sort of a cuss/curse ?? word,,,,,,, with these guys) seams that they cant wiggle a toe without one ,,, got to study something for years fo're they can do something about it. seams to me that it hamstrings the b.l.m. & keeps them from being able to do there jobs, and the enviro wacko's use the *ea* to tie-up the b.l.m.with lawsuits & keeps them from being able to react to a situation ( southern oregon fires of 2002 burned 1/2 million acre,s in one fire ) so salvagable timber rots & feeds the bugs (supposed to be a frowning smily face here) oops,,,, got off the subject here.
thanks again for the help
robotguy

Tillaway · « **Reply #13 on:** February 24, 2004, 07:10:08 am »

Robot guy...I have been kind of following this and it sort of sounds like you are reinventing the wheel. The equipment you are inventing is already on the market.

It sounds like you a trying to do a psuedo multi-span skyline system. If that is the case then the jacks, straps and other hardware is already on the market. If you ar familiar with those sytems and they will not work then look at what the Miller Mono-cable Yarding System does. This system will go around curves, sets up quickly, and does liitle damage to residual trees.

Furby · « **Reply #14 on:** February 24, 2004, 12:20:30 pm »

Ok, now you've got MY attention, Tillaway.
Do you have any links?

Tillaway · « **Reply #15 on:** February 25, 2004, 07:17:27 am »

The only link to the Mono-Cable system is dead. The company that made it is a forest management consulting / logging firm in Philomath, OR. There is one of these units in operation near Lake Tahoe, CA. They were also used for yarding Pacific Yew when taxol was first developed for fighting cancer. Taxol was extracted from Yew bark, I think.

Basically the mono-cable system was designed to move pole sized logs. If one person could lift the end of the log and attach it to the cable, then you could get it out of the woods.

It is basically commercial fishing gear slightly modified for woods work. It consists of a power block used by west Coast crabbers mounted horizontal on a trailer instead of dangling from a boom. A continuous loop of cable with stoppers attached ran through the woods supported by open blocks hung of of trees or between trees on nylon straps. The blocks had fingers welded on the pulley to allow chokers clipped to the cable to pass the pulley without the cable jumping off. The chokers were either rope or even bailing twine. The rope chokers attached to the cable between the stoppers by way of a snap used to attach gangions to a commercial fishing long line. The woods crew set the chokers and snap it to the line sending down to the power block were it was unsnapped. The woods crew carried a bunch of chokers with them since they were light rope and chokers were sent back out by way of the snapping them to the cable on the outbound leg of the loop. With baling twine they put a line cutter in front of the power block so the whole sytem didn't have to stop to drop the logs on the landing.

The multispan cable sytem is a skyline rigged with intermediate supports. The rigging used for the intermediate supports may be what he wants to build. This rigging supports a cable rigged usually between to trees, but can be rigged from one tree as well.

Paul H could explain how to rig it since he may have had experience doing it. I know the therory but don't have the practical experience of actually doing it. I have layed out harvest units where this was required to log it though.

Furby · « **Reply #16 on:** February 25, 2004, 03:06:42 pm »

Sounds pretty cool!

robotguy · « **Reply #17 on:** March 06, 2004, 07:37:48 pm »

tillaway,, missed you @ the loggers conference (eugene) by a day ,, wanted to talk with you / that mono cable system is exactly what i was looking for thanks!!!! / i did a search & found the w-site (dead) you mention paul H , can you e-mail me his info or ph# as i would like to talk with him and anyone else who worked or is working with this system.

Tom · « **Reply #18 on:** March 07, 2004, 07:18:49 pm »

The best way to reach Paul H. is to leave him an IM. (instant Message)

Find a post he made and click on his name to get to his Profile or click on Members on the banner above.

If you find a post, you will find an icon below his name that will allow you to send an IM too.

Paul H is one of our administrators and will probably see your post eventually.

Paul_H · « **Reply #19 on:** March 08, 2004, 10:11:40 pm »

Hello,
I got your IM.You can use tree plates to help prevent damage to the bark.We made some from the front springs of an old Kenworth.The original type used on spar trees were pretty beefy(more than you will need)
I'll try to draw something up tonight or in the morning.Somewhere here I have a few pictures of the rigging for intermediate supports that I saw in Oregon.

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Author Topic: tree clamp ????? (Read 2050 times)