Help/advice in choosing a 3pt grapple for small time tractor logging?

[UN Hooker]

   I built my grapple a little different and it sure is handy. And not just for moving wood!

          UN
 

 

[Piston]

   I built my grapple a little different and it sure is handy. And not just for moving wood!

That's pretty slick 

The main reason I want to use the traditional bypass grapple is so I can also use it on the 410 backhoe for doing exactly what you just posted!

I got a quote from Valby for $1,100 for the grapple alone, that is with a 2,500lb capacity.  The only problem is I told them what I was planning on using it for, and they said that the grapple is designed for lifting, and not pulling, so it may not hold up.  It doesn't look much different than the grapples the Wallenstein and Iron and Oak one uses?  Do you really think it wouldn't hold up?  I'm fairly surprised because even when just doing 'lifting' with a grapple, your often times pulling the log at the same time. 
The model I'm speaking of is a GR36 grapple.   

[Piston]

Piston
If your on TBN check out the thread I started on "a different kind of grapple" you'll see the 3pt grapple I built.
You definately want a hydraulic side swing.

Mroldstyle,
That's where I saw that!    I knew I've seen the pics not that long ago but couldn't find it, thanks for posting. 
Could you answer a few specific questions for me.

It says in your thread that you used 3/8" for most of it, and 1/4" for the boom.  Did you just buy sheets of plate steel?  If so, roughly how much was a sheet?  I have no idea what steel prices are. 

What model NH is your tractor?  and how well does the grapple work now that you have used it a bit? 

Did you ever try to figure out the weight? 

How far back does it stick out? 

Do you think there would be any benefit to having an up/down hyd cylinder like I have in my drawing?

Sorry for all the questions, but that is an excellent design and the answers would really help me. 

For anyone who hasn't seen Mroldstyle's build, here are a few pics....
Not bad for a paramedic 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pretty sweet truck too 

[Piston]

Sideloader,
I recognize that bottom pic grapple from one I've seen on here before!  I like the simplicity of it

Lumberjack,
Unfortunately I can't see the pics/videos.  If it's video it's on my end, video's are blocked for me.  Can others see it?


MrOldstyle,
In my rush to ask you questions, I forgot to welcome you    So, WELCOME!   
I started posting this over on TBN but didn't really get much for responses.  Good ole' forestry forum always comes through!

[thecfarm]

Piston I could view the videos.
I always like to see that loader UN Hooker.
mroldstyle, welcome to the forum. Nice grapple you have there and NH tractor too. Must be doing your firewood with it?

[Spalted Dog]

UH OH I smell a project in my future as well.  Great job on the builds and ideas!

[Side loader]

Piston,
If you were closer to Dixieland I'd lay that grapple on ya. I couldn't stand it and broke down an picked up a JD 548D around Christmas.  The green grapple is a very simple design and I have pulled a  2.5 log syp with 18 - 20" but, top and all with no problem. The pic of the black grapple was made out of a bell felling head and is Very heavy duty and heavy. Anyway sounds like your thinking this project out. There's a lot of good advice on this forum. Hope it works out.

[UN Hooker]

 Piston
     That is the small Valby grapple on that. That stick was carried from the pile to where we split. I've dragged many sticks twice that size around the yard without problems, except you must use the brakes to steer. The hardest on it is loading large rocks and filling roll off containers with scrap, I've tweaked it a few times but all in all its pretty tough for its small size.

                UN

[mroldstyle]

Piston
Thanks for the welcome and posting the pics.
To answer your questions:
1: most of the 3/8 in. steel came from the cut-off pile at the supplier, I think that was 50 cents a pound. The 1/4in. came out of a 2 foot X 5 foot plate. Not sure what the price was, but total for the steel was about $400. I did have some left overs though. Most expensive part was the hydraulics and adding a third hydraulic circuit.
2: I have a tc 29d, 29 hp New Holland. The grapples working very well. Had one weld break and one hydraulic fitting go bad. Both easy fixes.
3: My guess on weight would be around 400 to 450#
4: Top of the boom is 60 in long. So its out about 4 feet, taking into consideration the angle.
5: I dont know of any benefit to the hydraulic cylinder, unless your mounting to a tractor without a 3pt. I'm sure it wouldnt last long without some shieldin around it. I deffinately recomend putting a side swing cylinder on it. Backing up to a log in the woods isn't as easy as it seems, especially with a fel on.
  Good Luck.

Thecfarm
Also thanks for the welcome.
I'm actually using it for getting out red pine pulpwood. I'm thinning out a couple plantations, cutting the trees just a little over 25 feet, then skidding 3-4 poles out to the landing, where I buck them up into 100 in. pulp sticks. Later I will be using it for firewood.

[mroldstyle]

Piston,
Did you decide what your going to do?

[GRANITEstateMP]

Not sure if this helps or not but we needed to add some extra hydro. lines to the JD5500 when we run the Igland grapple and used this little unit (in the pic).  I'll try to remember to write the name down one of these days!  It's not ideal but it works, if you need to close the grapple, you flip a switch and move the joystick like your gonna scoop some dirt, if you want to change the angle of the gapple, just move the switch back.  Like I said not perfect but it works and it's an extra set of remotes.

 

 

[Piston]

I've been on vacation so I haven't checked these threads for a week or so. 

Piston,
Did you decide what your going to do?

The only decision I'm set on, is that I'd really like to have a grapple    I'm still really concerned with the stress on the top link.  I did some more research and the more I read the more I am shying away from using a grapple on my tractor.  I read about an identical tractor to mine (Kubota L4610) snapping the rear housing apart while using something similar to what I'm thinking about building/buying.  I also emailed a John Deere dealership asking about they're recommendations (I know different tractor but the Kubota place never returned my email) and they said they couldn't comment on the grapple design, but he related it to similar stresses that a 3pt hitch backhoe would put on the toplink, and he said they have had problems in the past with the 3x20 and 4x20 series which are similar in size to my tractor, and he said they don't cover that type of damage under warrantee because of the risk.  My tractor doesn't have a warrentee regardless, but the fact that they don't cover something like that leads me to believe that the tractors aren't really built for that sort of pulling stress.  He did say however that the next size up was plenty beefy enough to never worry about something like that, but that may have just been a sales pitch 
That being said, I'm gonna try and make time to check out Bill M's grapple and see how it looks/works, and that may help me make my decision.  Regardless, I'll be on the lookout for some scrap steel!

MrOldstyle:
Thanks for the details regarding your build.     I really appreciate it. 

I don't know if I'm crazy or not but I'm actually thinking of upgrading my tractor anyways.  Not because of this grapple build (although the idea doesn't hurt the argument ) but because of not enough FEL lift capacity, as well as I seem to be working this tractor to the limits a lot.  I'm worried I'm gonna end up doing some serious damage to something with all the heavy work I have coming up, but then again I have a backhoe for the heavy stuff in the meantime. 

GranitestateMP,
That's a pretty slick setup with the diverter valve.  It's a really good cost effective solution to adding another set of remotes, especially helpful with a grapple. 
Is "MP" marine patrol?  If so maybe I'll see you on the lake 

[shinnlinger]

Just when you had me talked into building a grapple you go and get cold feet.  Perhaps a sub frame could take the stress better but I don't know of it would be as hard as a backhoe unless you were hauling old growth redwoods.  Any log you hook onto in NH will probably move where many granite boulders up here will not.

[Gunny01]

I Just bough a 6.5H from BGU ProForest. They have a winch directly attched to the Winch shield.

I have never seen anything like this but I can operate Winch and Grapple as one Unit behind my tractor.

I Just need to find money for the grapple .

The winch has a indepedant Hydraulic by the PTO .SO I have enough power for the grapple.

My Tractor is John Deere 2940.

The guys are new to the USA but seem to know their stuff pretty well.The deal was pretty good for me