How do you charge for small scale logging/forest maintenence

[Ohio_Bill]

The last job I did for Timber Improvement  I did for a hourly rate ,  myself and the customer were happy . I opened several roads , drug in about  7000 bf of firewood for the customer and a little over 3000 bf of grade logs that sold for $1800.00 .  I  work by myself  and I charged  70 per hr . I am old and slow and so is my equipment .I hauled the logs for the customer and charged  75 per 1000 for hauling . I worked 2 days   and all went well .

 

 

 

[Okrafarmer]

I'm looking into starting small lots too. Since the bossman owns a tree care company, and we are always paid by people to take down trees in their yard, etc., we are also getting requests to clear land. We've done about three of these so far. In every case it was less than an acre to clear. We have charged hourly on one (and kept all proceeds from logs) and a set rate for the job on two others. we always keep the proceeds from all logs. Trouble is, the buyers around here are paying junk money for wood these days. Pine saw logs, I can't get more than $170 / k  around here, and oak is bringing $300 /k. Hardwood pulp is around $21 / ton and softwood around $17 / ton. Rough times. However, now that we know a little more what we're doing, we may start doing some of the small sites either for free or else give the customer like, 10% on the bigger tracts. Possibly more for prime hardwoods. We're looking to buy a grapple truck soon, and that will make loading and hauling much more efficient than our current means. Equipment is dirt cheap right now, and so we're snapping it up here and there. I'd like to do some 2-5 acre lots and see how it goes. I for sure don't want to get in any trouble with the environmental police, so I need to learn more about legalities of site treatment.

[Okrafarmer]

We have an arborist business, as I may have mentioned before. There is another arborist in town who sold me some walnut logs, and I told him we will pick up his logs of any species, if convenient for us, and take them for free. He has provided us with some nice oak, sweetgum, and tulip logs recently. Today, while I was looking at some oak logs he was cutting, he asked me if I could log off the back of a house lot he was doing basically as a favor to someone in need. Could I do it for the wood? I said, probably not, but I would look at it. I said if he logged it off, I would haul the wood off for free.

So I went to look at it. About a quarter acre of nasty pulpwood behind someone's house, basically. A few marginally useful trees, including a few decent size ERC I would mill up myself, along with a few mediocre sized cherries. The rest was pine that was too small and junk sweetgum, mainly pulp size. I told the arborist, normally I would charge around $1,000 to log that off, and leave the brush and tops where they fall. I was sorry, but I couldn't make any money off it. Hey, with hardwood pulp at $21 a ton, what else am I supposed to do?

[SwampDonkey]

I see what your saying and believe me it's a tough business, I understand that. But it just seems like after awhile you get a reputation of high grading for logs and leaving junk behind, even if it's all on the ground. It reminds me a little bit about guys around here that promise to demolish a barn and all they are after is the steal roofing. They soon got a reputation that put an end to their enterprise.

[BernieBraun]

Doing TSI there are some government programs such as EQUIP & WHIP that cost share landowner costs.  I generally charge by the acre.  $140/acre.  Here in NY we also have the NYC Watershed funding forestry work and The Common Waters Fund.  Funding is for management plans which then request funding for practices such as TSI, fixing eroded logging roads etc...  Foresters are usually good at tracking down this work for their clients.  In some areas the consultants have so much work they hire loggers to do all their TSI. 

[Okrafarmer]

I see what your saying and believe me it's a tough business, I understand that. But it just seems like after awhile you get a reputation of high grading for logs and leaving junk behind, even if it's all on the ground. It reminds me a little bit about guys around here that promise to demolish a barn and all they are after is the steal roofing. They soon got a reputation that put an end to their enterprise.

You are right, SD. But to log it and clean up, I would have charged $3,000. 

[Okrafarmer]

Oh, just to clarify. SD, I wouldn't have high-graded the lot, I would have cleared it, as they were asking. This was not a forestry management situation, but a lot-clearing. I told the man, if he cuts all the trees down and limbs them, I'll haul them off for free. The problem is, around here taking a load of pulpwood to the logyard barely pays for the expenses of getting it there, especially for our little single-axle trucks. He was doing the job for free as a favor to someone he knew, because they needed it done and couldn't pay for it. Supposedly.

[SwampDonkey]

Yeah I didn't mean a woodlot "select cut" type thing. I meant taking all the desirable logs and leaving a mess of other wood that could also be marketed on a clearing job, but lesser value. Junk of course is junk, no changing that fact.

[Okrafarmer]

I talked to him again today. As I had thought, the people need to have the trees cut down because they're being sued about the liability of the trees possibly falling onto an adjoining property. They really don't care much about what it looks like, they just don't want to be sued. That's why the arborist is trying to find someone to do it for free. It's quite inaccessible, and either the current owner or somebody else has used that back lot as a private dump for all kinds of trash and junk. It would probably be a favor to them to leave all the limbs on the ground to cover it all up. At least it would be natural cover instead of red-neck ground cover. It's a scruffy poverty-stricken neighborhood. There is a lot of that kind of stuff going on down here, SD, it's a different world than where you're at, I reckon. We would have to charge money to take the trees down and haul them off an awkward spot like that, and even more to clean it up. There just would be no profitable way to do it for free, and they don't have any money.

[SwampDonkey]

Well, you know best how to approach it I suspect. Everything costs these days even if the the trees are free. I wouldn't work for free neither. I'm just saying I wouldn't let wood lay that I could sell or burn for heat.

[Okrafarmer]

I wouldn't either, and I don't. If it isn't profitable, I just walk away. Most of the brush would be pine, not much good for firewood, and the firewood supply to demand ratio around here is formidable. We use our pulp down to the last 3 inches or less, but they don't want anything less than 8' long at one place and 14' long the other place. When people are paying us to clean up, or it's part of the deal, we do. Stuff rots fast down here, brush will all be gone but a few sticks in 3 years. Can barely sell firewood, although we do. I can't burn firewood at my house yet, maybe one day, but the boss heats exclusively with wood. Any time they let us, we leave firewood on site for owner to dispose of. That's all settled before we begin, and included in the price. Same with the brush. In the expensive subdivisions, and nicer areas, they usually want us to clean everything up, and we do. Their price reflects that. We do it however they want, whoever the customer is. We turn away a lot of work that isn't profitable. Like a contact today that wants us to clear a different quarter acre parcel. My boss said they would have to give us $1,000 and that did not include cleaning it up. There was no valuable timber there, we would just haul off all the logs and pulp. They told him, their budget was only $400, and he said that was not enough because it was a long way from the pulp yard and it would cost us more to get each load there than we would receive for it. So he turned that job down, too. He is doing another job somewhere else though, where it is taking down a number of scruffy trees and hauling them off. He is about half done with that one (I haven't been on that job) and they are paying him and the guys to haul the pulpwood off and chip the brush, which they are doing. I don't know how much they are making off this job, but it is one of the ones that he felt was worth it. I'm sure they are paying at least $1500. He hauled off a single-axle truck load of pulp today and one big white pine saw log which I will mill up.