Author Topic: Peterson vs Lucas (Read 2979 times)

alhas · « **on:** February 08, 2004, 11:30:15 am »

I'm new here and apologize if this is an old topic. I'm looking to purchase either a Peterson or Lucas portable. If there is anyone here who has run them both I'd appreciate any input that might help me make a decision. I will be using it to mill lumber for a timber frame project several years down the road. From the ads, Lucas seems more flexible/versitale, Peterson WPF more solid/accurate? Thanks.

shopteacher · « **Reply #1 on:** February 08, 2004, 12:47:51 pm »

Welcome alhas. Can't give you a darn bit of advice on those two mills, other than to say buy Orange

Ianab · « **Reply #2 on:** February 08, 2004, 01:58:36 pm »

Hi Alhas, welcome to the forum

Your question is the ole Ford V Chev one I think.
I've not used a Lucas, but have seen them in operation, they are good machines. I run an older model Peterson WPF that I'm very happy with it and I think it's at least as versatile as the Lucas, once you learn all the tricks. (Reading some old posts here is a good start for that)
If you are comparing the 2 mills the Lucas is more equivalent to the Peterson ATS mill.
Either mill will do what you want, so I guess compare price, features and support and take your pick

Ian

D._Frederick · « **Reply #3 on:** February 08, 2004, 02:49:20 pm »

Alhas,

I have seen them saw at the Logging Conference the past half dozen years, if you plan on doing much sawing, the Peterson WPF is a little more user friendly. You don't have to walk quite as much and wide boards/timbers are easier to saw. If you have "old legs", I would look for a different type mill.

woodbeard · « **Reply #4 on:** February 08, 2004, 03:33:59 pm »

Also, keep in mind that when you "double cut" on the swingblade mills, the two cuts are not exactly even. If you are planning on leaving the post and beams rough sawn, this might look a little odd. If you don't need any dimensions over 8", either brand will do. If you need 10", Peterson offers a 10"cut mill. If you don't mind the look, or are going to plane the surfaces, either brand will cut up to 8x16, the 10" Pete up to 10X20. If you need to double cut at all, the Peterson will do it much easier.

dmcc · « **Reply #5 on:** February 08, 2004, 04:04:11 pm »

Finally, my chance to be truly opinionated! I have owned a Lucas 618 for about 8 months now, and I'm pretty happy with it. I came off of a Woodmizer, and for me, sawing part-time for others (about 3 days a week), the maintainance is much better suited to me.
I've run a Peterson WPF 10" a little bit, and from what I've seen, the benefits are covered in the last 2 posts. It is a real nice mill. I bought the Lucas mostly because of cost difference,(also why I went with a 6") and feel like at the price I got the most bang for my buck. You may really want a bigger blade or the options available with the Peterson, so you really need to investigate it as much as possible before buying.
The biggest benefit I've noticed after using the Lucas for awhile is that since you raise each end indepently, you can level the mill to the taper of each individual log in a matter of seconds ( I believe the ATS levels side to side). Also, the ends are so easy to move that as soon as we get a log rolled under the mill, we just wedge it where its convenient and move one end of the mill whichever way we need to center the log, and I'm sure this is the same with the ATS.
Anyway, I hope this post stays active for awhile, I'd like to see what others have to say about their swingblades. If I get time this week I'll post some pictures, hope the other swingblade guys will do the same!

RevCant · « **Reply #6 on:** February 08, 2004, 04:08:03 pm »

Welcome to the forum, alhas

.

I run a Peterson 8" WPF. Good machine, cuts accurate lumber, and a very good investment for me. If you want to compare Lucas and Peterson, compare the Lucas with the Peterson ATS model. This will give you a one to one comparison. Lucas does not manufacture something in the WPF catagory. The ATS is a great little mill with some definate advantages over the Lucas. 1. The tracks are lowered from one end of the mill, not from the sides (less walking/more time cutting) 2. Double cuts can be made without lifting the mill off the tracks and turning it around 3. The Peterson has a better locking system on the swing mechanism. 4. The Peterson will cut full width in one pass. The Lucas recommends two because of their thinner blade plate.
Both the Lucas and the Peterson are good machines and will cut your lumber. I believe the Peterson will give you better value over the long run.

If you are interested in seeing a Peterson in action, I live and work in Southern Maryland, probably a 5 hr drive from where you are. Come up, spend a few hours pulling boards (and even cutting a few

). There is nothing like seeing this mill run first hand. Heck, I might even have an extra Peterson hat

.

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #7 on:** February 08, 2004, 04:09:48 pm »

George, When I was conversing with Kiwi Jake, the topic came up of mismatching cuts. He said there are adjustments, so the cuts match on the horizontal???

woodbeard · « **Reply #8 on:** February 08, 2004, 05:19:58 pm »

Yes, I see how that can be done. Just a matter of tweaking the left to right blade tilt. However, for regular cutting, the blade needs a slight tilt downward to the right. This keeps the left side of the blade off the log as you progress into the right side of the log. It's a very slight tilt, but very noticable when you do the double cut. I'm not sure I really feel like readjusting the blade tilt that much, and even if I did, I doubt it would be exactly even over the whole face of the board enough times to make it worth doing. And even if it was, there would be two sets of saw marks. Obviously, this is not a problem unless you are wanting the saw cuts as part of the finished appearance. I was mostly bringing this up because I just recently had to cut a bunch of wide natural edge cedar slabs. I took the job thinking I could just double cut it all on the Peterson, but realised later that there was no way it was going to look right and I knew the guy wanted to leave the saw cuts showing. I ended up chainsaw milling it all with my 046, as I haven't fixed the clutch on my 090. It was a pain in the dairy air, but it looked real nice.

woodbeard · « **Reply #9 on:** February 08, 2004, 05:27:08 pm »

dmcc, glad you chimed in here!
That's a very interesting bit about being able to adjust for taper with the Lucas in that manner. Hadn't heard about that before. Please don't feel like you have to wait for a chance to be opinionated, nobody else does

Ianab · « **Reply #10 on:** February 08, 2004, 11:23:28 pm »

Woodbeard
If I remember right Jake's trick was to sit a bottle top on the horizontal adjustment stop, giving that exact 1.2mm of adjustment to line up the cuts right. Not sure what brand of bottle top works best though

I'm sure the cut line would still not be 'perfect' but you should be able to get a pretty good result still

Ian

KiwiJake · « **Reply #11 on:** February 08, 2004, 11:28:43 pm »

Fla. what I was probably talking about was an easy way to get the blade true when doublecutting, simply by putting a bottle cap between the horizontal meet points brings the blade true. All circular sawmills have "lead in" on the cutting side of the blade as explained by the guys, this stops the back of the blade from resawing and draging hp. This answers the "adjustment to suit doublecutting" need.

The Lucas cutting to grain/taper? The ATS can do all four corners individually which is easy taper adjustment and the abillity to adjust to any ground terf (4 individual handles) two handles have recently been added. I used to just pop out the telescopic link and rotate but these handles do make it easier.

The WPF has stationary tracks which give alot more benifits like easy log roll, single point height adjustment and reduces the need to raise the tracks every time for the logs to roll under, the taper thing is usually dealt with with our modified "Black Rat" jacks to lift one end of the log (pushing or pulling up hill gets boring quick).

Things to compare and try between the mills are, the gaging system for horizontal adjustment, the blade flip (ease of use, sometimes you flip this thing 2000 times a day

), the winch differences when grade sawing (lowering and raising), doublecutting, walk through obstructions when dealing with BIG logs (may not be an issue your guys way).
Just some things to look for.

Double cutting, if your intersection isn't meeting you can wind down one click on the winch when your about to cut with the back of the blade which will bring the meet closer OR... you could try my beer cap thing

. Oh yea Woodbeard, also you can cut a bunch of 16" boards set them side and then plane them with the full width of your blade leaving a complete circular criss cross on them. You'ld only have to do one side cause the other side you would have done while your cutting.
Chears

KiwiJake · « **Reply #12 on:** February 08, 2004, 11:35:44 pm »

Oops you beat me to it Ian.
STEINLAGER does the trick

(take the plastic insert out before you use it)

Hope I don't get in trouble for advertising.

Ianab · « **Reply #13 on:** February 09, 2004, 03:36:45 am »

Thanks Jake...
Best I get a couple of Stienies open before the weekend then

Got a couple of Mac logs that I can try out double cut technique on, they want 12x2s but butt log is about 30" so should be 'no problemo'

ian

woodbeard · « **Reply #14 on:** February 09, 2004, 04:48:06 am »

Oh, great, another part I need to order from New Zealand.

I've got some parts on order from Petersons, I'll just ring back and have Angela toss in a slab or two.

Might be easier than finding it in this area.
Actually the stop on my mill has a big round nylon thingy at the end, considerably bigger than a bottlecap. But I get the idea, and it's a good one.
Thanks,
George

dmcc · « **Reply #15 on:** February 09, 2004, 09:01:30 am »

Kiwijake,
If I'm reading your post correctly about adjusting all four corners on the ATS, (i'm assuming you pull a pin on the connecting rod--correct me if I'm wrong), you can do the same on the Lucas to adjust side to side, hence easy sawing on a side slope. I very seldom use this adjustment because I usually use a couple of wooden shims under the downhill side which makes it easier for me to slide side to side to adjust to a big log that lands in the wrong spot, and just keep my rails where both sides bottom out at the same time. I did like the fact that the ATS has both highth(is that a word and is it spelled right?) adjustments on the same end.
I'm sure I would have been happy with any of the Peterson models too. But at the time, I had jobs ready to go, but wanted to make sure i could make the payments even if the jobs dissappeared(and some did). I was able to get everything I needed in the 618 delivered for about $7800. There were a couple of ATS 8"ers with a 13 hp engine in the US for about $9,000 delivered at that time. Anything with a bigger engine would have been substantially higher (to me, anyway) and I'm really glad I got the 18hp engine.
I guess my point is, I'm not knocking the Peterson mills at all, but in MY case the advantages weren't worth the $. Probably different for each and every one of us. And now that I've used the Lucas quite a bit, I'm really happy with it, and if I really need to go with wider cuts, I'll add a bandmill as jobs allow, and have the best of both worlds.
Probably more than my $.02 worth, huh?

alhas · « **Reply #16 on:** February 09, 2004, 07:06:08 pm »

Kiwijake,
If I understand correctly you are the Guru so this question is for you. It sounds like you have made improvements to the ATS frame allowing adjustment that will give more flexibility in uneven terrain. All promotional info shows level ground cutting. Do guys actually cut on uneven terrain? Is the WPF frame limited to more or less level ground? It seems to me that the WPF is a more stable frame which appeals to me. However, I envision a lot of "away games" and level ground may not always be available. How much of a problem would this present?
Thanks

BW_Williams · « **Reply #17 on:** February 09, 2004, 07:20:42 pm »

I told myself "stay outa this frey" but Kiwi brings up a valid piont, if your over 6' and saw anything longer than 12', your gonna be unhappy. I'm 5'10" plus hardhat and Whites, and I have to keep the sawdust raked out of my path every log or 2. Now, about walking twice as much with a Luke, horsepuckey! We work out hand signals with our offbearer and they adjust the far end. How often are you sawin' by youself? Well, I'll shut up for awhile, good luck, BWW. PS......Ford! and welcome alhas

Ianab · « **Reply #18 on:** February 09, 2004, 07:46:11 pm »

Alhas
I've had to set up my WPF on some sloping / uneven sites. Just takes a little while to set up some extra blocks under the rails and maybe some under the log bunks. Some rounds sawn to size off a log can be used, or some 6x4 blocks.
Also the 2 rails do not have to be exactly level, they DO have to be parallel of course. But if one is a few inches lower than the other it's not a problem

This spot I had one rail on the ground and the other side 6" - 24" off the ground. This was the flatest spot around

You do want to try and get the log level, or across the slope.. sawing up and downhill is no fun

Ian

KiwiJake · « **Reply #19 on:** February 10, 2004, 12:17:36 am »

Ian covered the taper thing pretty well, the whole mill is super lightweight so blocks are the idea, on the ATS its just a matter of releasing the star knob and rotating the handle.

Better to lift the log end using a jack for heavy taper though, easier to push and no hazards associated like the mill free wheeling down hill toward your off bearer (could happen just by accidently letting go).

HORSELOGGER · « **Reply #20 on:** February 10, 2004, 05:19:37 am »

BWW, There is also twice as much walking on the Lucas because they do not have the blade technology to allow a full capacity horizontal cut in one pass, as the Peterson does, and double cutting on the Lucas is a nightmare , spinning the entire mill assy. I saw almost 90 % of the time solo on my Peterson. When I had a Lucas, you almost had to have 2 people to get any serious production.

dmcc · « **Reply #21 on:** February 10, 2004, 06:48:28 am »

How many of you Peterson users put your blade guard back on each time you finish double cutting? Now QUICK,How many can tell me where their blade guard is?

But seriously, BWW, do you have to make two cuts to go full width? I've only done that once, it was on an elm that was so twisted and knotty it was useless---the boards were springing as much as 6" over an 8' log. Most of my sawing is full width with no problems tell I hit a nail%$##$!

BW_Williams · « **Reply #22 on:** February 10, 2004, 04:50:05 pm »

If I have to double pass the horizontal cut, its time to sharpen the blade. I'll differ to horselogger as he's had both. Ford! BWW

Captain · « **Reply #23 on:** February 10, 2004, 05:48:02 pm »

My guard is on the mill. It comes off only temporarily. That entire blade spinning right in front of you while the mill is positioned high in a log is rather breathtaking.

Pictures of the mill? How 'bout mill, trailer and truck.

Oh yeah, make mine Chevy. Silverado. Super Sport

Captain

dmcc · « **Reply #24 on:** February 10, 2004, 08:56:29 pm »

Nice log, Captain.

woodbeard · « **Reply #25 on:** February 11, 2004, 04:37:19 am »

Quote

Pictures of the mill? How 'bout mill, trailer and truck.

Chainsaw too! Husqvarna?

That is definitely a good case for the blade guard. Mine is under a pile of sawdust.

I have been working on the double cutting thing.

I was a Ford guy until recently. Replaced it with a Toyota

Also have another old Ford and older Chevy, but the Toyota is my daily driver.

Captain · « **Reply #26 on:** February 11, 2004, 04:43:59 am »

That was the customer's chainsaw. This is the day that I discovered my trailer was broken into and 2 of my Stihl saws stolen (036 Pro, 046 Mag)

On the upside, they are replaced with newer MS models. The MS460 has the complete John Walker package. What a screamer!!

Captain

Tome · « **Reply #27 on:** February 23, 2004, 06:43:06 pm »

Quote

Chainsaw too! Husqvarna?

That is definitely a good case for the blade guard. Mine is under a pile of sawdust. I have been working on the double cutting thing.

I was a Ford guy until recently. Replaced it with a Toyota
Also have another old Ford and older Chevy, but the Toyota is my daily driver.

Woodbeard,

What do you do to get your double cuts to match up? I tried to cut a 7x9 tie today and my kerf didn't match. I have a 8" ATS, I cut about seven inches on the left side then about two on the opposite. Any suggestions?

By the way, I am new at this sawmilling but I sure am enjoying the sawdust. I cut a hickory the other day, boy was that thing tough. Cut a lot of one by stuff trying to get some consistency, I'm getting better but a long way to go.

Thanks,
Tom

HORSELOGGER · « **Reply #28 on:** February 23, 2004, 08:01:40 pm »

Hey Tom

. You will never really get a "perfect "looking double cut intersect. If your blade is adjusted right, it should have a SLIGHT lead in to the right side of th log. This will , of course leave the left side of the blade a wee bit higher than the right, so when you finish the double cut with the left side of the blade, you get a ridge.

Try to split the dimension in half instead of seven inches with the right side and 3 with the left, try 5 and 5. Also a small thin metal shim at the horizontal blade adjustment bolt / stop will keep the blade a little more level. If you are going to cut a bunch of wide stuff, just readjust the blade to cut a LITTLE flatter ( reduce the lead in ) and it will make cleaner doubles. Just remember to re-set it

KiwiJake · « **Reply #29 on:** February 23, 2004, 10:55:30 pm »

Tom, you can get the intersection line pretty near spot on (You'll never get rid of it completely, you'll be able to get it to the point where it is "just" visable only on areas of tension or knots on the board".

1)Flatten your top slab.

2)Adjust both winches 1 click down.

3)Cut into the slab about 4 inches (skimming slow) horizontally.

4)Bring the mill back in vertical.

5)Cut an additional full width horizontal (Skimming slow).

? Is there a line between the first cut and the second cut, if so this line should be just visable only on certain parts of the slab where there are knots. This means your mill is set up pretty much perfect (your double cuts will have a real minor line between them, approximately double what you see on your resurfaced transition line). You can check this by lining the left side of the horizontal blades tip to the furtherest right skimmed edge of your last skim. Basicly skimming the back cut to match the front cut, checking this without waisting any wood.

No doubt that your transition line will be around a mm, so your going to have to adjust it.

1) loosen the bolt on the ride side bottom of your "half moon" locking mechanism.

2) Wind the mid halfmoon centre bolt hex nut adjuster in (follow it with the right side bolt) so it slides the right half to the left. (Only 1 fractional 30deg turn). This should make your horizontal lock arm a little looser to lock. Once you've done this tighten the bottom bolt and relock the mid bolts togather once again.

3) Check the blade lock in horizontal by wiggling the blade if solid as a rock, it's fine. If it's too loose you'll have to wind the centre contact bolt (1/2unc) out the same 30deg turn and once again lock its locking nut.

Check the reskimming process again, the transition line will be much reduced. If you cant see it you've gone to far.
Basicly when you've got it right so its "just" visable you can adjust the halfmoon just a tweek more so it completely dissapears, like what Horselogger suggested, make sure you tweek it back when your finished all your double cuts. Check that it's right by matching the blade from front cut to back cut of your blade by reskiming.

If all's well and there is no line. Try your double cut board. I allways do the first standard cut deep as possible and the reverse cut with the remainder. It's important to note that you should always meet so that both cuts do not overlap each other more than 5mm. This is easily done by leaving about a 10mm uncut area between cuts (small support ledge). Just simply "climb"(cutting the remainder 10mm forward with the left side of the blade, holding the unit firmly)the ledge is much more visable to the sawyer this way giving an exact 5mm overlap. Wedge correctly. If it's not wedged to keep the beam off the blade the line will be from the beam sagging as its cutting.

Normally as I'm climb sawing the ledge, halfway down my offbearer twists the board sideways to prevent the blade from resawing the beam. If your by yourself you'll have to wedge the beam as you progress.

Hopefully you'll be getting some quality double cut boards. Any probs give the factory a ring and ask for Jake, I'll be glad to help you out.
Chears.

Chears.

woodbeard · « **Reply #30 on:** February 24, 2004, 05:04:31 am »

I have been dropping the height down a hair on the second cut, and that seems to be doing pretty well. Horselogger is right, the line will never fully go away, so this for me is a way of minimising it without a lot of fussing around to get unattainable results. I am not sure if this technique is as easy on the ATS, though. Most of the time, what I am cutting is either for construction, or will eventually get planed, so it's not much of a big deal. I don't think the railroad will care much either. But that ol' hobo walking down the tracks might notice and say " Hmm, swingblade mill. Didn't get his cuts lined up right. Shoulda listened to that Kiwi feller. "

If I need wide cuts where the saw cuts will be left as the finished surface, I will flatten the top of the log with the Peterson, and continue with my chainsaw mill.
Good luck,
George

Captain · « **Reply #31 on:** February 26, 2004, 04:12:03 am »

Hey Jake,

Although I have not tried it yet, when double cutting, what about cutting with the LEFT side of the blade first, so the cut is completed with the right side of the blade and you have the support of the riving knife? I also thought this procedure would potentially allow for wedging as I proceed with the double cut. Since the material will only be about 2 1/2 inches thick and about 10 to 12 inches wide, I think I am safe without the support ledge by cutting the left side last.

I have a lot of double cuts to do this weekend in some smaller oak logs for a trailer deck, and I thought I would give it a try as I will be by myself for most of the sawing. I just wondered if you (or anyone else) have tried it.

Captain

KiwiJake · « **Reply #32 on:** February 26, 2004, 08:21:25 pm »

Gidday Cap, I have tried on our 10" but it didn't give the effect that I desired as the 10" riving knife is short 4" from the tip so the difference would be minimial. On the 8" you might get a much better effect cause the knife is only two inch shorter.
I will get around to trying it and I would think it may give some benifit on the 8. Still, the line is really mostly from the board falling on the blade, even with the riving knife to help so wedging is the ideal solution. Have you got some plastic ones?

It is absolutely crucial to leave a 10-20mm uncut ledge between both cuts. Once you are at the normal operating starting point "climb" mill forward cutting the ledge, wedge the cutting side as you walk forward, effectively twisting the board off your blade.

Goodluck

Captain · « **Reply #33 on:** February 27, 2004, 02:44:45 am »

Thanks Jake, that all makes sense. Yes, I do have a pail full of plastic felling wedges in the mill trailer. I was just trying to think of a way to accomplish the double cut with fewer trips down the log.

I'll also give it a try and report.

Captain

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Author Topic: Peterson vs Lucas (Read 2979 times)