Help sharpening chain

[joejkd]

Having trouble getting my saw chains sharp. I’ve tried a freehand file with a guide clipped to the file, and a granberg file jig. Neither seems to get the saw particularly sharp. I checked my rakers and they’re ok for now.

The trouble I think I’m having is figuring out the depth on the granberg. There is no guide as to just how low I should set the file. The general rule is 20% above the top plate, but trying to visually check 20% of a 5/32” object is not exactly precise.

Does anyone have a better method for the granberg? Would I be better off with an electric purpose-built grinder? I need the most fool-proof method, as my vision is not so good for finish work.

I use my saw for about 5 hours every weekend.

[Wood Doctor]

Dear Joejkd, First and formost, never let your chain touch anything but clean wood. You can use a wire brush or hand ax to clean any grit or dirt off your logs and stop short from the ground if your not using a buck. I only hone my teeth with 1 or 2 passes before I start to cut. I do it free hand and always try to follow the guide marks on the chain. If I do get a chip or dull the teeth unwillingly, I have it reground at the Co-op for 5 bucks. Also, carry an extra sharp chain when you go out and it will save you time and effort in the field.The more that you use your saw the more practice and skill you will aquire to keep your teeth sharp and cutting clean.As for the guides; I am sure with practice you will master them as well. ~m~

[beenthere]

Joe
I sharpen by hand, and last couple years have used a small guide.
Depth of file is controlled by the rollers and angle by the guide mark on the tooth. The guide also includes the raker guide for hardwood or softwood.  About a $10 item that I get from a Husky dealer and believe it is branded Pferd.
 

  

 

[T Welsh]

joejkd, here is Stihl,s video of how to care for a chain and sharpen it. it will help and explain all stages of how to sharpen. Tim

[thecfarm]

It just takes time. I doubt you will get the hang of it in 2-3 chains, But once you understand what you are doing wrong,the rest is easy. Get some cheap glasses from the dollar store too. You need to see what you are doing wrong. Keep at it,you will get it. I have many rocks and hit them too. I can get a chain back getting pretty good. Yes,I destroyed 2-3 chains before I caught on to it.

[beenthere]

Very well-done video.

[lumberjack48]

joejkd at 6.48 minutes in to the video where hes filing a raker, look at the cutter in front of it, you'll see that shinny edge on the cutters top edge.

You have to file on till that shinny edge is gone, you can watch it disappear every stroke you make, when you don't see it any more the cutter is sharp.

You can file all you want, if that shinny edge isn't gone its still dull, i hope i explained this so you understand it.

The main thing is don't get disappointed, if it doesn't cut good, take a good look at it, and file it again. Theres no reason to pay somebody to sharpen you chain.

If you have a problem, post a picture, we'll tell you what your doing wrong.

 

[fuzzybear]

  One thing most people forget to do is to file each cutter to the SAME length. They can be razor sharp and still cut like @#$% if they are not the same length.  If you do not have a micrometer you can use an adjustable wrench to check length.
  Start with your shortest cutter and file it sharp, then set the wrench on it to get the length, then file the rest the same length. Then adjust your rakers to the correct depth. 
  If you keep them sharpened correctly the saw will cut like a hot knife through butter with little effort. If they are not the same the saw has to work overtime and so do you.
  Happy filing.
FB

[John Mc]

Personally, I've found having the teeth all the same length to be over-rated. If you use the appropriate tool for setting the height of the depth gauges in relation to each individual tooth (rather than the tool that rests across the tops of two or more teeth), you can compensate for a lot of variation in tooth length. I still make some effort to keep the length somewhat close, but I do that by eyeballing them. I don't get worried about minor differences in length. I hand file, and my chains (round-ground, full-chisel) cut straight and fast - generally as good or better than new out of the box chains.

[lumberjack48]

I agree a 100% with John Mc, if the length of a cutter isn't noticeable by eye there close enough.
One of the best raker gauge's i found is the Carlton File-O-Plate, it lays over each cutter individual, you can get one from Baileys or Ebay, make sure you get it for the chain your using, full chisel, semi chisel and ect, each chain uses a different numbered file-o- plate.       
A new chain out of the box is dull, look at the edge of the cutter, theres a little bit of a shinny edge on it. Thats the first thing i did was put a good edge on it and touch each raker with the flat file. [ just touch ]

[T Welsh]

Cutter length can be tricky with a bar 24" and over. I am teaching one of our crew leaders the finer points of getting a 36" saw to cut straight,he has a problem understanding equal length, and raker height. thats when I found the video and told him to watch it. he came back the next day and said I understand it now. and he does,but his skills need to be honed, he uses my saw and just smiles,then he get frustrated using his. I told him it will take time and it will come to you. I am making him file his saw and not use the grinder. it will teach him to be accurate. Tim

[John Mc]

Most of my Oregon chains have been fairly sharp out of the box, but their depth gauges are up too high (higher than the Oregon spec). The other thing I've noticed with their chains lately is that they seem to have way too much hook on the teeth. It certainly makes them grab and cut well when bucking, but it can be a pain in the neck when you're bore cutting... they get too "grabby"

[T Welsh]

We use our saw,s in all conditions.boring,bucking,felling,ect. you can match your chain to any condition,but for good all around performance I stick pretty close to OEM spec,s. I am careful not to file the rakers to much,its hard on the saw and gets a little dangerous when you take them down to much,it will cut like a b--ch,but dont get complacent with it,or you will end up with a unexpected result. Tim

[Al_Smith]

Everybody has a favorite method .The trick is finding what works for you .

Some stick the bar ,saw and all in a vice .Some sharpen first the left cutters and then the right .

The method I use is straight over the back of the saw doing alternately the lefts then the rights progressively going over the whole chain .I can see the angles better .

Willard does it with the saw sitting on his lap .Seemed awkward to me but works well for him so that's all that matters .End results count, methods do not only for arguements sake which really isn't worth much .

[lumberjack48]

In the spring of 66 i was staying in camp with an ole Fin, he was about 50, i was 18. We were cutting an peeling tree length Aspen, up by Ash River, between International Falls and Cook MN. [ 50 cents a tree ]
Setting on a chair he held the saw between his legs with the bar at the 35 degree's, this way he filed straight across, the saw was tilted at the right angle. 
I tried it over an over, it didn't work for me.

[John Mc]

... for good all around performance I stick pretty close to OEM spec,s...

That was partly my point. I'm finding that some of the Oregon chains I'm buying does not meet their specs for depth gauge setting, and for the amount of hook on the tooth. This is new, out of the box chain. It cuts great for bucking-type cuts. However, that long thin point from the excess hook on the tooth doesn't last long, and is a pain for bore cuts.

After a hand sharpening or two - to the angles and depths they specify, it's better: longer lasting, and bore cuts just fine

[fuzzybear]

 

Personally, I've found having the teeth all the same length to be over-rated. If you use the appropriate tool for setting the height of the depth gauges in relation to each individual tooth (rather than the tool that rests across the tops of two or more teeth), you can compensate for a lot of variation in tooth length. I still make some effort to keep the length somewhat close, but I do that by eyeballing them. I don't get worried about minor differences in length. I hand file, and my chains (round-ground, full-chisel) cut straight and fast - generally as good or better than new out of the box chains.

  My question is, would you sharpen your table saw blade without regard to cutter size, how about a band blade? If you've invested large money into equipment and you like that new out of the box performance of the chain, Why would you not take the few extra minutes to maintain that performance and protect the investment you have made?
  When you take a chain that has cutter that are unequal and sharpen it and adjust each raker, it will never cut as good as it does out of the box. A saw chain is tuned to cut a certain way.  If you do not maintain that tuning it will never cut as good as new.
  If you sharpen a set of planer blades and set them in at a slightly different height, it would still plane lumber but it would never run correctly or produce the same results as if you took the time to tune the blades.  A chain saw is the same principle.
   Most people will hit an object that will destroy a couple of cutters, they then sharpen those cutters removing a large amount of material to do so. If you do not remove the same amount from the other cutters they will stand at different heights, thus producing a low spot that will not produce the same result as the rest. This is where you get the slight "rattle" as you are cutting.
   If you take the time to retune a chain after hitting an object, you can then go back to the tried and true method of using the same amount of strokes to touch up the cutters.
  Just my $.02 worth.
FB

[John Mc]

Fuzzybear: A chain saw is not a table saw or a band saw; there are significant differences in what goes on during the cutting with "fixed" teeth such as these, and teeth that have more of a "float" (and in fact make a porpoising motion) as they cut through the wood.

I might agree with your description a whole lot more if I were using the depth gauge tool that so many of the dealers and hardware stores around here are using: it's one that lays across the tops of two or more teeth, so you are setting the depth gauges sort of to an average of those teeth. This is not tuning the depth gauge very well for the tooth it actually affects. Further, as the teeth wear back, the depth gauge needs to have a slightly different height in relation to the tooth. These depth gauge tools have no way to compensate for that. They're better than nothing, but far from ideal.

The depth gauge tools that sit on one tooth, and angle down in front of it, with the end resting on the body of the chain, rather than the tooth are basically customizing the raker for the tooth which follows it. Because of the geometry of how these work, they also help to compensate for the different relationship between the tooth and the depth gauge as the tooth wears back. The old Carlton File-o-plates are one such tool. Here's another (I use the one on the left):

 

 

I'm not advocating for totally ignoring tooth length, but with the appropriate depth gauge tool, some degree of difference between tooth length makes no difference in cutting performance.

[beenthere]

John Mc
I agree with your approach and good reasons. I too figure if a rocked tooth needs to be shortened, then the worst it can be is that it doesn't contribute to the cutting. But see no need to knock back good teeth just to say they are the same length as the one or two shorter ones.
One reason I only take a chain to someone with a grinder, even one I think knows how to use it.

If I am going to file a circular blade on my table saw, it will first get place on the mandrell backward and all the teeth will be jointed using a stone to the same lengths. Then file each tooth to remove that jointed land ending up with all the teeth the same length and hopefully the same sharpness.
Any carbide teeth are different treatment.

I have a similar depth gauge as yours for individual teeth on my pferd two-roller jig pictured earlier.

Add to this that discussions of skip-tooth chains are made by grinding some of the teeth off shorter.

[Al_Smith]

If you take the short tooth from a rocked chain and cut the depth gauge down just a little deeper  it's doubtfull you'd be able to detect a short tooth or two by the way it cuts .

Now a race chain you want every thing just so so but on a work chain you can be pretty leniant .

[fuzzybear]

  like it was said before, you find a way of doing things that works for you and you stick to it. My self I work until dark, about 4pm in the early spring, and that leaves me time to spend cleaning and maintaining equipment. I find that sharpening the saw is peaceful and helps me relax after work.
   I REALLY hate dull tools. My axes,knives,saws must be razor sharp and ready to work. I.ve been accused of over sharpening my knives. Some one always gets cut when they use my knives.  My first duties when I worked with a master sword smith was sharpening, he was very fussy on the correct way of sharpening and could produce a blade that would literaly could cut a human hair dropped on it. I could never produce the edge he could, but then again he had been doing it all his life.
  I have been using carbide impregnated chain for a while now, and I have to say I'm impressed so far. Alot less sharpening, even after cutting through an embedded nail and rock. Took very little effort to get it sharpened and not alot of material lost. And at $.33 a drive link it was worth it.
FB

[Al_Smith]

I'm confused on that one .Are you saying the carbide chain was 33 cents per driver or it cost 33 cents to have it ground ?

[John Mc]

Fuzzybear -

I've never used a carbide chain (though I've used carbide in other applications in the steel wire industry - in the right application, it certainly does last a LOT longer than hardened steel).

How do you find a well-sharpened carbide chain cuts as compared to a regular chain? I cleaned up some storm damage with a guy who was trying out a carbide chain.  Comparing freshly sharpened chains of both types, it seemed as though the carbide cut a bit slower (I know the shape of the chips was certainly different). I do wonder how it would have compared as the day wore on.  What have you found?

John Mc

[bandmiller2]

The two types of carbide chain I've seen are a regular chain with like a spray coat of carbide grits,the outher had carbide bits brazed on the teeth.The fire service uses the chain with the brazed bits to  cut through roofs and side walls.Those firefighting chains are worthless for cutting trees and limbs and extremly expensive.Every time firefighters would drill with the roof saws they would break off the carbide bits and it would cost $1.00 each to replace each tooth.Frank C.

[Al_Smith]

I've seen them but never used them .You can't file them as they must be ground with a diamond grinding wheel .

Prices I've seen are from 3 to 8 bucks a driver which would mean on a 72 driver 20"  loop it could be 210   to 560 dollars .Geeze I  could buy a couple rolls of chain for that amount of money .

[fuzzybear]

  The chain I'm using is a carbide impregnated cutter. It has a 2mil coating over the entire cutter. They can be filed with a GOOD file.
Here in the north I have only 1 dealer that sells Oregon chain at $.53 a drive link. I have nothing good to say about Oregon chain so I won't. I saw these through another retailer, And since they are not a forum sponser I will not mention their name except in a PM. But, they sell their brand of chain made in the US for$.33 a drive link. So I decided to order their Bar and 2 loops of their carbide impregnated chain to try out.
  As with all carbide chain the saw runs a little slower, but the cut is outstanding. It throws large chips all day long. I cut a lot of frozen wood, With the other chain I have to touch up the cutters every day, sometimes twice.  I have gone for 2 days before having to touch up the carbide chain and it is only 2 cuts with the file and it is razor sharp again. As I said before I really hate dull tools, I have a tendency to keep stuff over sharpened.
  I hit a 3" nail embeded in a log, cut it clean in half, It only took about 5 cuts to clean up the cutters. It has been 5 months since using this chain and I am already ahead of the game cost wise. I normally go through 2 chains in that time and I still have 3/4 of the cutters left on the carbide chain.
  The other thing that I really like is the lack of chain stretch, With the other chain I usually run out of adjustment before I run out of cutters. In 5 months I have only had to adjust a few times.
  I have ordered a new loop to try on the saw mill in the spring. I'll let you know more of how that works later. I have used it on the saw to freehand rip a couple of 16"x12' logs and was impressed with how well it cut without over heating the cutters. This led me to want to try it on the mill.
  I hope this helps with the questions. If you have any more just ask. I am by no means an expert on them, but I am very impressed so far.
FB

[Al_Smith]

  Well as far as that goes some times Stihl chain acts about as hard as carbide .

Even on fairly clean wood in these parts your going to get the file out about every two tank fulls and give it a tickle .On dead ash that's a file per tankfull if you want to keep chisel cutting good .

Even on Stihl chain it won't go all day without  a visit from the file .You might get twice as much as Oregon before you file. To look on the bright side though if you file enough you really get good at it .

[g_man]

joejkd - When I started filing my own saw I tried a few different guides but had trouble with them all so I just learned to file free hand. If they got to bad I brought them to a shop to straighten out for me. Then I tried the Husky guide that "beenthere" showed on his post. For me it works great and is easy to use and you can see what you are doing.. If your chain is tight it sets on the chain at the right angles and depth. Just set your file on the rollers and file paralell to the side of the guide or follow the file mark on the chain if you use a chain like LGX. Get one of those guides, you will like it. Make sure you get the right one. The .325 is different from the .375 guide.
No mater what practice will make you better.

[John Mc]

I like the guide that Beenthere posted as well (the depth gauge tool also works the same way as the File-o-plate and the one I posted).

These days, I'm using this type of file guide:
 

 

It works well, though I haven't decided which style I like better, this one, or the style Beenthere posted.

[Ron Scott]

I also use the Husky roller guide that Beenthere posted most of the time.

[ladylake]

I'm with John MC on tooth lenght, they can be off a ways and still cut fast and straight, no way would I shorten the teeth on a whole chain cuz a cople got rocked and ended up a bit shorter.   Steve

[bandmiller2]

Pretty much the whole ball of wax is a sharp file and a steady straight stroke with the file close to the propper angle. Most folks use a file too long,after they stop cutting well.Two strokes with a good file is all I use,if you need more we'll call you rocky. Frank C.

[lumberjack48]

When i had the shop i sold Carlton semi carbide chain, 60 drivers $23., a reg chain was $12. this is 20 yrs ago. I bought it by the 100' roll, i'm going to do some checking on prices.
I never run it, i sure wish i would have known about, i think it would have cut my filing time by 70%, anytime your not filing your making money and saving chain. Depending on the timber, i ran 8 to 12 tanks of gas a day and put an edge back on 10 to 20 times. It only takes 1 to 2 minutes to do it on less i hit something. I found this video of a guy putting the edge back on. The same way i did and just as fast [ I didn't cut my rakers ] i ran a 16" bar, you can see it don't take long. Thats the shape i was in to, i was 41 when i broke my neck and in better shape then i was at 18.



When filing a chain you have to know the difference between a dull cutter and a sharp cutter, by looking at it. So that when your filling, you file on till the cutter is sharp, may it take 1 stroke or 10 strokes.

If you take the short tooth from a rocked chain and cut the depth gauge down just a little deeper  it's doubtfull you'd be able to detect a short tooth or two by the way it cuts .

Now a race chain you want every thing just so so but on a work chain you can be pretty leniant .

I agree, I've hit barbwire, it kicked butt on a couple cutters. I'd file the cutters back on till sharp, now this is when you need a raker gauge that checks each cutter individual. I used the file-o-plate, you can all so file the cutters with it, its a handy little tool, i had one in my wallet. All these filing tool the guys are showing work, its what works best for you.
I found a video showing how to use a file-o-plate,  i'd like to share.






 

[beenthere]

Good videos, IMO. I'd like to think I file that fast, but don't.

[lumberjack48]

This was my biggest problem, [ To much in a hurry going no where ] 

[Dave VH]

does anyone else use a rotary tool? (dremel)  I used to use a file every tank, but now I just use my dremel as needed, and keep a couple of extra chains with me when I'm cutting.  When I get home I sharpen my chains, clean the air filters, if I think that the saw ran rough I'll check the plug.  Then load in the truck and I'm ready for the next day

[beenthere]

I used to use one, but was not happy with it. Back to the file.

[thecfarm]

What ever works for you. If I tried a different way now,I would have to learn all over again.

[John Mc]

I'm sticking with the file myself. Tried a friend's dremel-style tool, but couldn't get the results I get with a file. Maybe I just needed more practice at it.

I hand-file almost everything, but if I rock a chain badly, I'll take it to the saw shop and let him work it over with his grinder. (fortunately, we've got a couple of guys in the area who are good at it).

I also enjoy the break that filing gives me during a day of sawing. It's a chance to stop and check out the saw, and myself - I sometimes don't really notice how tired/hungry/thirsty I'm getting until I stop for a bit. In part for that reason, I tend not to swap out a chain during the day, unless I've rocked it badly.

[DebarKing]

I have the oregon filing jig (very similar to the granberg). A agree that finding "20%" of the top of a file is a pain. I got down to eye level (looking at the space between the file and the tooth). I visually adjusted the jig so that the radius of the file fit perfectly into the hook of the tooth. I was more than happy with the results, even though it was my first time ever using one of these jigs. The way I look at it, I'll only file a chain 5-6 times before I have all the teeth reset anyway (Ralph at work does a $%^* good job!!).

[oldaxman]

Practice, practice, practice. It takes filing away 100s of chains to really get really good at it, after a while you feel what you are doing more than you see it. I could sharpen a chain blindfolded as well as not and basically I do because I can't see up close without my glasses which fog up horribly when I try to put them on while working. 

[lumberjack48]

I can tell by the slide of the file on the cutter when its sharp, oldaxman thats taken many yrs of filing.
I've told guys this, they'd look at me like O-ya,    so I'm glad you posted it.