Do hydraulic hoses rupture with age?

[terrifictimbersllc]

Had a hose rupture today, the one to the base of the in-out cylinder on the clamp (WM LT-40 super).  Right where it goes into the frame.  Not a sharp bend and there is a big soft grommet there.  Don't think I caught it on anything but I cant rule out an edging having caught it. Nothing I noted.  It was a 3/8 line and I replaced it with a 1/4 spare line I had on hand, plus 6 fittings totalling $30 from NAPA to adapt the 1/4 back to 3/8.  Really ugly but it got me through the day.

My mill is 12 yrs old.  Does one expect hydraulic lines to wear out just from age?  Also has anyone had NAPA make up new lines?  I will check tomorrow but I think they have the same brand of hose and it might only cost half as much as from WM.

[POSTONLT40HD]

Hoses will defiantly wear out from age. Aren't you glad it didn't rupture on T.V.? 

[Al_Smith]

I don't know about a sawmill  but as a general statement what happens is the rubber coating gets attacked by the UV of the sun which will cause it to deterate thus exposing the wires underneath .This exposer will in time lead to a failure . In addition more often that not in areas which have sharper bends the failure rate is higher weather exposed to the sun or not .

As far as 12 years ,don't know.I have got hoses on tractors and bull dozers over 40 years old that seem to be working just fine but the hydraulic pressure is most likely lower .

[Ironwood]

I would shop around for hoses. If you can take the time to anticipate and have some on hand it will help you to not "fall" victim to the $$$ most places that make custom hoses charge (ALOT). I usually end up at my NAPA if time is of the essence, but OUCH it usually hurts. Find out if WM is mostly "JIC" or other style. then keep them handy. "Hardlines" are REALLY costly. I hate to even thiink about replacing them.

 Ironwood

[dgdrls]

Yes the rubber breaks down from cyclical heating and cooling, and/or flexing.  Rubber lines also fail internally and appear fine
on the outside but collapse internally when pressure is released, rubber brake lines on cars will do this and cause brakes to hang-up.
I watched a 300 series Komatsu puke about 35 gallons of hydraulic fluid when a
pressure line driving a mower head failed.  Lots of mess to clean-up,

DGDrls

[pineywoods]

What causes most ruptures for me is RUST. The strength in a hydraulic hose is the steel braid. The outer layer is there just to protect the steel braid. That layer will crack and flake off, exposing the steel braid to the elements, which then rusts and ruptures. Sometimes I get in a bind and have to have a replacement hose made up locally, but most of my hoses come from surplus center. They stock mostly standard stuff, but do carry a huge selection of adapters and fittings...

[terrifictimbersllc]

I would shop around for hoses. If you can take the time to anticipate and have some on hand it will help you to not "fall" victim to the $$$ most places that make custom hoses charge (ALOT). I usually end up at my NAPA if time is of the essence, but OUCH it usually hurts. Find out if WM is mostly "JIC" or other style. then keep them handy. "Hardlines" are REALLY costly. I hate to even thiink about replacing them.

 Ironwood

They are JIC.  What's a hardline?

[buildthisfixthat]

some hydraulic hoses can last a lifetime ,depends on weather exposure and how much fitigue (flex) they are subjected to ......i use these reuseable hose fittings just cut the hose and screw the new end on ....i have also used 2 fittings to repair a long hose in the middle ......a great time saver and a pocket full of $$$

 

[Bibbyman]

The hoses on our 2002 WM still look good.  But the mill has been under cover since new.  Last Friday about 3:30, Mary went into a panic mode hollering and waving, "Shut it down!".  The hose to the back support cylinder had blown a hole.  Like you,  I couldn’t see what had damaged it.

My first instinct was to get a hold of a reusable butt splice fitting.  With a reusable fitting, one can make field repairs. We called the local NAPA store and they had none.  Time was running out.  We called around and nobody had reusable fittings.  One place suggested a large truck dealer in another town.  They were already closed and wasn’t open on Saturday.

So Saturday morning Mary and bit the bullet and pulled the old hose.  I sent her to town to get the line butt spliced.  Even thought it was a common hose size – 3/8” – they didn’t have a butt splice but could come up with a combination of couplings to put the line back together.

It took us, in total until noon to get the hose out, repaired and put back in.  When we pulled the hose, we attached a piece of hot fence wire and pulled it through the frame.  When we reinstalled the hose,  we applied dish soap for liberation.  We had a couple of complications that were a result of disassembly and reassembly so we didn’t get started sawing until 1:30.

I’m going to try to find a source for reusable fittings so I can make my own repairs and not have to disassemble and pull the hose.  I see a number of them listed on E-bay,  it’ll just be a matter of getting the right size.

Buildthisfixthat,

Where did you come up with the reusable fittings?



I got this one from MacMaster Carr back in 2002.

[customdave]

I had a hose failure on the log loader with a hair under 100hrs on my mill right next to the crimp on end, had end sawed off & new end crimped on 8$, hose was long enough for this, while I was @ the hyd shop, had them make up a new hose 36$! I got busy & ordered the mates hose for the other side which was about 6" longer from WM 21$ shipped to me!!! I would definitly check withWM....

                                    Dave

[timbuck2]

One word on hoses, PARKER.  worth the $

[leroy in kansas]

Just a thought. My sons and I had a const. co a few yrs back. We had  a concrete pump truck which had miles of hydraulic hose. Our practice was to carry a hose as long as the longest one on the truck. When we broke, which does occure, we could unscrew the fitting by pass the routing and connect to the other end. Total down time never longer than half hr. This may be a practice that will help save time and get by.

[buildthisfixthat]

some hydraulic hoses can last a lifetime ,depends on weather exposure and how much fitigue (flex) they are subjected to ......i use these reuseable hose fittings just cut the hose and screw the new end on ....i have also used 2 fittings to repair a long hose in the middle ......a great time saver and a pocket full of $$$

 (Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

The hoses on our 2002 WM still look good.  But the mill has been under cover since new.  Last Friday about 3:30, Mary went into a panic mode hollering and waving, "Shut it down!".  The hose to the back support cylinder had blown a hole.  Like you,  I couldn’t see what had damaged it.

My first instinct was to get a hold of a reusable butt splice fitting.  With a reusable fitting, one can make field repairs. We called the local NAPA store and they had none.  Time was running out.  We called around and nobody had reusable fittings.  One place suggested a large truck dealer in another town.  They were already closed and wasn’t open on Saturday.

So Saturday morning Mary and bit the bullet and pulled the old hose.  I sent her to town to get the line butt spliced.  Even thought it was a common hose size – 3/8” – they didn’t have a butt splice but could come up with a combination of couplings to put the line back together.

It took us, in total until noon to get the hose out, repaired and put back in.  When we pulled the hose, we attached a piece of hot fence wire and pulled it through the frame.  When we reinstalled the hose,  we applied dish soap for liberation.  We had a couple of complications that were a result of disassembly and reassembly so we didn’t get started sawing until 1:30.

I’m going to try to find a source for reusable fittings so I can make my own repairs and not have to disassemble and pull the hose.  I see a number of them listed on E-bay,  it’ll just be a matter of getting the right size.

Buildthisfixthat,

Where did you come up with the reusable fittings?

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

I got this one from MacMaster Carr back in 2002.

    i found my fittings on e  bay from a surplus company also bought some hoses with reuseable fittingings on them good supplies to have on hand no place around here sells them

[Paper Maker]

    My dad has always dealt with hydraulics in his line of work as a diesel mechanic. He still has his old Gates crimper from when he was in business. In his opinion Gates and Weatherhead are the best fittings and hoses on the market but thats just one mans opinion.
     When I first bought my mill I had to replace  several hydraulic lines due to the suns UV damage. The rubber had crack letting  water get in and rusted the wire causing them to burst. I checked around and O'Reilly's had the best price and they carry Gates brand. Just somewhere else you may wont to check.   Marcus

[Magicman]

I have had a hose to rupture on my '98 model WM, and as Pineywoods mentioned, it was rusted.  I know that I should pull and replace all of the hoses, but I just keep putting it off.   
 

 
I wrapped my hoses with a protective sheathing to protect them from chafing.

[Norm]

I'll 2nd the parker hyd hoses. Whenever I have a stock one break I take it to my local repair shop and they make one up for me. I've yet to have one of theirs go bad. You may save some money on others but in the long run you don't.

[Al_Smith]

Parker is indeed an industrial  standard and has been around a long time ,good product .Here of late in appears the more modern stuff has gone to Rexroth which appears at least at first glance to be rather robust also .

As far as fittings they can come from any number of sources and in just about any type one could imagine .It's mind boggling the combinations made as to flexibility or adaptability from say one size to another or from SAE sizes to metric .

Myself being a junk collecter have 5 gallon buckets full of fittings but as luck would have it most times don't have exactly the correct ones .Some times though I get lucky rumanging  though a big pile tossed on the floor .

[ely]

i wish i had a picture of my woodsplitter hoses... most folks wont help me split wood. they get one look at the rusted what used to be hoses on there and back way up.... i think the outer covering of rubber came off a few years back.

[Gary_C]

The hydraulic hose and fitting business has gone thru a big consolidation like any other industries. There are just three major hose companies left and I suspect most of the remaining companies are buying their fittings from one source in China. The three majors remaining are Parker, Aeroquip, and Gates. Between those three, they have swallowed up Weatherhead and most other big names.

Some years ago I know some other major rubber companies like Goodyear were trying to get back into the hydraulic hose business but don't know if they were sucessful. Probably not as there are some discount hose manufacturers particularly in Europe that are also present in the market.

Much of the hydraulic stuff on this European made forestry equipment like Ponsse and Valmet is Parker made but I am not familiar with who Timberjack uses. But their dealers in the US buy from most anyone and right now Ponsse is supplying Gates hose and I think John Deere is also Gates. Some time ago Ponsse hose was coming from Italy.

Right now, I have been looking at buying quantities of hose and fittings and looking at an online supplier that has very good pricing. It's DiscountHosedotcom and anyone can order from them. They say their hose is made in the US but I've never heard of the manufacturer so I suspect not. The local suppliers of Gates and Parker are about twice the price and refuse to discount for quantities.

I too use a lot of reusable fittings, but beware of using them on old hydraulic hose that the outer cover is weathered and dryed out. I've had some blow off on old hose. But those reusables are hard to find. Most local suppliers refuse to sell them and say they are no good. But that's BS.

[barbender]

Listen to Gary C's advice, he'll blow more hydraulic lines in a week with the cut to length equipment than a WM hydraulic mill will in a lifetime.

[barbender]

BTW, my experience is where the hose flexes is where it fails, especially if it is a tight bend.

[pinehillstacker]

Gary_C, Goodyear did get back into hydraulic hose.  My dad's hydraulics business is a distributor of Goodyear hose.  They make a quality product; he used to use NRP Jones, but he liked the Goodyear quality better, plus they're made in the USA, so he switched to them.  Also, like MagicMan said, the hose protectors work very well, are cheap, and come in all sizes.  We use them on all our equipment on the farm.  As far as around here in SW PA goes, you can get a good deal on hydraulic hoses if you take it to the right shop.  Some of them have the "I got it, and you need it" attitude, and that is where you will get into big $$$.  My dad's business can normally make a hose for somebody at half his competitors' prices, and still turn a profit.

[Brucer]

I had the same hose fail on my mill when it was only a year old. Turns out the fitting on the cylinder was at a bad angle and the hose kinked every time the clamp was fully retracted.

I had another hose fail inside the frame tube!. Couldn't figure out why I was losing fluid until it started running out one of the holes in the side. I found the cause when I opened up the hydraulic box and found a pack rat next made out of the reinforcing fiber from the hose .

The mill was stored at my house that winter and I had left my tool box under the hydraulic box. That gave the rat a nice platform to hop up into the hole that the second pump would sit over, if I had a second pump.

[petefrombearswamp]

The only hose I have had fail is on my 2008 WM lt40shdd51 where it rubbed on a fitting.
WM replaced it but lost a little time which is not important to a retired slow sawyer.
My wood splitter which I built in 1979 with NAPA built hoses is still intact.

[Paper Maker]

i wish i had a picture of my woodsplitter hoses... most folks wont help me split wood. they get one look at the rusted what used to be hoses on there and back way up.... i think the outer covering of rubber came off a few years back.

    I bet your wood splitter hoses aren't as bad as mine.
 

  

  

  

 

[terrifictimbersllc]

The one that just failed is the one coming out of the frame to the base of the in/out clamp cylinder.  Only about 10" out of the frame it goes to a 3/8 elbow pointing directly at it.   This moves up and down a bit and turns 90 degrees with about a 5" radius into the frame.  Right there is where it failed.     WM is now selling one that is 26" longer (171") which I ordered ($45) .   They said it was changed in 2002 from a previous 145" .  Since the distance to the frame hole with the current elbow position is only about 10", it seems that one is expected to point the elbow in a different direction and use the excess line to make a better position which will bend less.  We'll see. 

I also ordered the hose to the top of the same cylinder since it is scuffed at the bend and looks suspicious.  And a spare 3/8 in the longest size that my mill uses.  I already had a 1/4" spare which is what I am getting by with now (plus about 6 Napa fittings to increase it to 3/8 at the ends).     These hoses all cost about $40-45.   Not sure if I could do better elsewhere.  I will shop around now to see if I can get them cheaper so I'm ready the next time.

[Larry]

A stop by the VFD netted me a 10' piece of junk fire hose.  Perfect to protect my hoses in spots subject to abrasion or to add resistance to bending.  I’ve also put them to use on the forklift.



When prices get too high somebody always steps up to the plate.  My neighbor is building an addition to his shop for the sole propose of making hoses.  He is gathering fittings from auctions and buying bulk hose.  The dies are a bit expensive so he has been shopping eBay.  I sawed out his rafters...at no charge, just in case.  And a little side note.   This guy is up in his late seventies...no time like the present to start a new business.

[terrifictimbersllc]

This morning before I ordered the hoses from WM I stopped in again at NAPA and asked how much for a replacement 145" 3/8 hose (JIC female fittings on each end).  I was optimistic because I thought the manager told me yesterday that it was only about $1 per foot (stupid me).  The hydraulic kid said it would be about $8 per foot    so I passed (I don't mean I  died, I just didn't buy it-although I did really feel sick for just a bit).  He wasn't keen on splicing on a foot at the end where it was broken, because he didn't have the exact same kind of Weatherhead hose . He said $40 for the WM replacement was a bargain.

[Bandmill Bandit]

On the reusable fittings I know that Eaton has a good line of them. They are a bit pricey but Eaton made fittings for Cat for a long time and I have used them a few times. Best to use Eaton hose with Eaton fittings if your doing new lines. Grainger distributors generally have them in stock.

Belflex is another good name.   

[Gary_C]

This morning before I ordered the hoses from WM I stopped in again at NAPA and asked how much for a replacement 145" 3/8 hose (JIC female fittings on each end).  I was optimistic because I thought the manager told me yesterday that it was only about $1 per foot (stupid me).  The hydraulic kid said it would be about $8 per foot 

I don't have my file here at home, but the online price is $1.41 per foot so 145" would be $17.04 plus fittings and the fittings are about $3.19 each so the total cost should be $23.42. So $40 for an OEM hose is a good price.

I know the price at O'Reillys for 1/2 inch Gates hose is around $4.00 per foot retail so a NAPA price of $8 per foot for 3/8 hose is not good.

[terrifictimbersllc]

How much does a machine cost which will put 1/4 and 3/8 JIC fittings on hydraulic hose?

[Bandmill Bandit]

How much does a machine cost which will put 1/4 and 3/8 JIC fittings on hydraulic hose?

Used to be around 2500 to 3000 just for the machine if you bought your supplies from the dealer. Could be double that if you got your supplies else were. Once you switch to a good quality threaded system you wont likely go back to crimped fittings.

Just checked and the prices have not changed much but how they price is different. The crimp dies are priced separate now and run 250 to 500 per set and a good crimper that will do up to 1/2 inch is about 2600 so you'd spend around 4000 for a good set with out supplies. 
 

[Ron Wenrich]

We've always found that real cold weather will take out any hose that has a weak spot.  We had a mill that had reusable fittings, but we had to use a certain type of hose or the casing would be to thin to hold the fitting.  Don't know if that's still the case.

We have since gone to buying our own equipment to make our own hoses.  We run a lot of hydraulics with all the log loaders, lifts, firewood processor, and the mill.  We usually have hoses made in advance for those that break the most frequent.

[terrifictimbersllc]

Here's a short video of pressing a fitting: 
The crimper here is $2600.  http://www.discounthydraulichose.com/D165_Compact_Hose_Crimper_p/d165.htm
At $45 a hose where materials cost $20 I would break even after a hundred hoses or so.       Wondering if there is an inexpensive alternative for someone having just one or two types of fittings to do this with a manually operated machine.

[rockman]

 Dennis, If you seriously are looking for hose making equipment, the stuff can be had used for pennies on the dollar. Since the economic down turn alot of repair shops, construction companies etc. have folded as you know, many of them had hose making capabilities. What you need to do is find a hydraulic hose fitting distributor for your area, Aeroquip etc. they will hook you up with a previously owned machine.
 Good Luck,
   Kevin

[Al_Smith]

Just a side note on general hydraulics .I have the Parker  Hannifin service manuals on pumps devices  etc .

It points out longgevity  issues relating to operating pressures .I think the trend these days seems to be higher pressures and smaller components .

Stuff designed for example for the automobile industry  in the 60's used massive components and high volume pumps ran at lower pressures and they would literaly go decades with low failure rates .For example they used 3000 PSI components ran on 600 PSI .

Probabley do to the trend of building machinery with an expectant service life of 10 years as oppossed to older being 30 years has caused the movement to go this way .Cost,ya know .

BTW my home made splitter uses a Parker super duty 5 inch cylinder rated at 4500 PSI which is ran at 1900 .It should out last me .

[Tom L]

I got this one from MacMaster Carr back in 2002.


I have a whole drawer full of those thing that I picked up in an auction, they come in very handy. I just keep several lengths of hose around and if something breaks it is an easy fix to make them up myself.

[Corley5]

  I bought a Dayco, now Parker, hose machine several years ago with a large assortment of fittings and hose.  I got it on E-bay and went to Southfield, Mi to get it.  Best piece of equipment I ever bought.  It's paid for itself many times over    I can do hose from 1/4" to 1 1/4".  The big mark up in custom hoses comes with the assembly.  I've bought the fittings and length of hose I needed and pressed them my self and saved about half over having the shop press it.  In just the last three days I've made three 36" 1/2" hoses with #10 JIC female on both ends for the forwarder, three 1/2" hoses one 24", one 36" and one 48" with #8 JIC female fittings for the harvester/processor.  I made up two 3/4" hoses for the firewood processor a week ago.  It's pretty DanG convenient    I can get fittings and hose from a local supplier just as cheap as I can online and keep a selection of NPT, and JIC on hand along with a variety of adapters.  If you only need a couple hoses a year owning your own hose press probably isn't worth it but if you've got machines with lots of hoses they are more than worth it