Dry Red Oak Lumber

[Paper Maker]

    Being fairly new to sawing lumber I made a mistake on some nice looking red oak lumber. I sawed it about six months ago and it has all cuped. I put stacking sticks between each stack and its also under my lean to beside my shop. My question is, if I where to put something strong across the top of the lumber with a cable and turnbuckle could I tighten ever couple of days or so and flatten the lumber back out. All of the lumber is cut one inch thick. I planed some of it last week and with my small planer it taks forever to get a flat board. Next time I'll weight it down better. This is a aggravating lesson learned.   Thanks Marcus

[Den Socling]

Let's hear a couple more details and we will try to figure out what went wrong. How wide are the boards? How thick and wide were your stickers? What spacing did you use for your stickers? Did you have some air flow through the lean to? What diameter were the logs? How dry is the lumber now?

[Ianab]

If it's dry now, then the weight isn't going to straighten it. As it dries it "sets" into whatever shape it happens to have become. Once dry it's more like a spring, and will return into that shape.

The weights or straps can help while it's green, and you get it to "set" straight and flat, it's more likely to stay like that.

Best option is probably to rip it into narrower boards and use those. I know it's a shame when you have cut lovely wide boards, but at least they will be usable in that form.

Ian

[beenthere]

As Ian said, rip it before planing it. After planing, joint the edges and edge glue back to width desired. Most won't know the difference, and you can remove a lot of defect in the process.

[Den Socling]

Ian is right if the wood is dry. Since it has been air drying just 6 months in AL, I doubt that it is dry. Cupping is the usual result of over drying in a conventional kiln.

[DouginUtah]

Proper procedure for removing cup from a board is to run it over a jointer first, not through a planer.

Of course, if a planer is all you have... 

[Paper Maker]

 

   This pic doesn't show the cup very well. But I used 1"x1" stickers and spaced them about ever 2 foot. The logs where about 18 to 20 inches in diameter. They had been cut down close to a month before I had time to go get them. A friend of mine cut them down and gave them to me. As far as how dry they are I'm not sure but they seam dry to me. I don't have a moister meter yet from lack of funds.   I didn't think about ripping them down the middle. Thats a good idea. I also didn't know that a jointer was the best way to get the cup out but it makes since. My dad has a 6" jointer I can use, and I have a biscuit joiner to put them back together. I'm trying to build a box for the back deck. It will look simular to a hope chest but with two doors instead of the top opening.   Thanks for the info. I was going to build a solar kiln this winter but can't do much of any because of neck surgery. But when I get able to cut again, I'll certainly do things different on the way I've been drying my lumber.    Thanks  Marcus

[WDH]

 Flat sawn lumber has a tendency to cup toward the bark.  There might not be anything that you could have done about it.  Some logs are just a pain in the butt, so to speak.

[kelLOGg]

I shed dry followed by kiln dry and I use ratchet straps to apply force to the boards to aid in preventing cupping. Small stacks work best for this and the straps have to be tensioned periodically to maintain the force. Stiil, some will cup, particularly around a knot.
Bob

[Banjo picker]

Like WDH said it was gona cup some.  Next time for project lumber you might consider cutting it on the 4/4 scale, then you will end up with lumber that it about 1 1/8" or so then plain the cup out of it...I rember you said you plainer was small ...right now there are some good deals on stuff like that...If I cut lumber on the one inch scale it ends up only being about 7/8 after the cur...very little to work with...ok for some things not for others...another thing that I do is stack it where I can pick it up with the Kubota. and put the green stack on the bottom...weight is you friend...I know none of that helps with the problem at hand , but oh well.....Banjo

[Den Socling]

I can see from the sap wood that some logs were small diameter and flat sawn. There is not much you can do  with them while they are air drying. I also see some twist. That was probably caused by stress in the tree. Again, there was not much you could do about that. Your mission has changed to recovery. 

[WDH]

Cup, twist, and warp.  My ever-present wood companions  .

[OneWithWood]

Those guys sure get around 

[Paper Maker]

   I appreciate the info. I think I'll rip them so that they will be easer to plane. What I know about cutting and drying lumber was self taught and read on the Forestry Forum. I think that the next time I cut oak I'll cut narrower boards. I would think that narrow boards wouldn't cup as bad.
     Let me ask another question about stacking oak here in the hot and humid south. Would it help to stack it with the outside of the board up or does it make any difference.       Thanks Marcus

[Ianab]

Would it help to stack it with the outside of the board up or does it make any difference.

Don't think that will make much difference.

Putting a heap of weight on the top of the stack, or using ratchet straps, can help. Basically you forcibly hold the wood flat while it dries, and it will hopefully retain that shape.

Cutting narrower boards might help, but in the end doesn't gain you much. If you dry them wide, some may dry flat and not need ripping. If they cup, then rip them.

Oak is bad for cupping as it shrinks a lot, and has a big difference between the amount of shrinkage in different directions.(radially and tangentially). This means it wants to move as at dries, and the actual method isn't going to make a big difference.  Physically controlling it is about all you can do.

I've had the same issue with Eucalyptus which shrinks and moves more than Oak. I've managed to dry some and keep it semi-flat by putting on the bottom of the stack with a ton of stable easy drying cypress on top to hold it flat.

If the logs are good enough, then quarter sawing will also be more stable. With a q-sawn board the grain runs the same way right across the board. It may Crook and need to be ripped straight again, but should stay flat.

Ian

[WDH]

I think that the best bet is to always cut the best logs first.  Cut for maximum grade and width.  Stack these best boards on the bottom of the stack.  Let the weight of the lower grade boards to follow provide a service to help keep the best boards flat.  On a stack 30 or 40 layers high, the bottom boards get a huge amount of weight.

[Kansas]

Maybe its just us, but we like to sticker from 16-18 inches wide on 1 inch lumber. I don't know, maybe thats overkill. One thing looking at your picture that I notice, is that I would make sure those stickers are out on the end of the boards. Maybe you did, but I can't quite see it in the pic.

[Paper Maker]

I looked and most of the stickers are out to the edge. There may be a few not as they should be. I'll pay closer attention next time though. Thanks
    On another note I ripped about ten of the boards today, and when it was all said and done I ended up with three inch wide boards. They may be a salvaged screwup, but they sure turned out to be some nice looking boards. It also made the job of planing with a small planer much easer and faster. 
      Marcus

[Migal]

Hello All
           I,the new guy. That said have some oak that was cut 5 yr,s ago some cupped and some is still unstacked. the 12 wide i ended up ripping and making window casings,the quarter sawed wood yet to be unstacked was stacked two boards wide and 300lb tractor weights put on top (really done do to lack of floor space) when i look at stack i see the imperfection of a ripple but are very straight and flat will need resquare'ed on edge. This wood came from storm damage tree that I could not let go to the fire of clean up. I have a LogMaster LM3 in production and should be in my hands this month. Can,t wait till I get that call. Have a great day.  Migal

[beenthere]

Welcome to the FF Migal.
Where is Migal from?
We like pics, and look forward to hearing about your new mill. 

[WDH]

Welcome Migal,

There are several LogMaster mill owners here. 

[5quarter]

Papermaker...I have learned to think of drying lumber in much the same way one levels and calibrates his mill. If one adjustment is out and the lumber suffers. There are a couple posts somewhere on the forum where members provided step-by-step illustrations on how they built their drying stacks...very instructive. (Maybe someone, like Furby,  knows where they are? I couldn't find them). In the meantime, I can provide a few tips learned from bitter experience.

   Build your foundation dead level in both dimensions. Make sure it will not settle with seasonal changes.

   Make sure all your lumber is exactly the same thickness. same with your stickers (I plane all my stickers to ensure uniformity). doing these two things will provide the stack with uniform pressure on every board, which is crucial to increasing your yield of straight lumber.

   Build your stacks 48" wide by no more than 72" high. this seems to provide enough weight without causing distortions in the upper layers.

    I sticker every 16", but some sticker every 24" and still get good results. keep them one directly over the other...don't deviate from this as uniform pressure depends successive layers providing direct pressure on the layers below. uneven stickers can cause distortions in the lower layers which, believe me, do not easily plane out. also, make sure the very ends of the boards are stickered as well.

  I always include a few slightly thinner boards that go in various locations in the stack. I use these as test boards to check the MC.

   But even if you have perfect logs, perfect boards, perfect stack and perfect climate you still will have some boards that will disappoint you.

    Sawing logs is relatively easy. successfully drying lumber is hard.



 Link to the Stradivarius of stackers "how to" post 

[Magicman]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum,  Migal.