Hay crazy

[bandmiller2]

Need my head examined,sold off all my haying equip. a few years ago.Just bought mower,tedder,rake and baler, back at it.Of course its all old and in need of repairs but for my small operation can't justify new.Probibly  $8.50 a bale for horse hay had its thumb on the scale.Any meaningfull agriculture has long left my area,I'am considered a quaint throwback to earlier times.Rebuilding a Ferguson D-eo-20 side delivery rake,had to take down a tree growing up through the tine bars with a chainsaw.Got the JD#9 mower all rebuilt and painted,friend gave me a real deal two new sickle bar knives for $20.00 replaced ledger plates and all wear parts.Ready by spring??? Frank C.

[WDH]

Frank,

At least you are a "quaint" throwback and not a "DanG" throwback  .

[Norm]

We'll have eighteen acres next year. Not large by some standards but it's all high quality alfalfa which brings a premium at the auctions. Most of what we produced last year was back hauled to Texas for a good price. That way we don't have to store it although if you do the prices this time of year are very good. Picked up a newer rake at the auction I went to the first of December.

 

Sold for half of what it should have gone for. Not many do hay in our area any more.

[paul case]

Hay crazy indeed!
That $8.50 a bale sounds a little cheap, but of course we are too close to the drought area here. Our hay made 1/2 of what it should have last year. Between my dad and I, we make about 300 acres of hay and on good years more. This year I have sold some 5'x5', 1100# round bales for $70/ bale. My son sold some of his bermuda grass square bales to horse owners for $10 bale delivered. The local ad paper that usually has dozens of hay for sale ads now has maybe 2 each week.
Norm,
I wish I had a new rake. Mine is getting pretty well repaired. That one you bought looks like a good one. Vermeer? I have had a Vermeer baler for going on 20 years now and it still makes real nice tight bales. I wouldn't trade balers, but I sure like your rake.
PC

[Patty]

You may be quaint, but certainly not crazy! As Norm mentioned, few around here still do hay, and for that reason, I think adding a hay crop to the mix is an excellent idea. The prices on hay right now are as high as I've ever seen them, and as more hay ground is plowed under for corn, I believe prices to continue to go up.  Plus I just like doing hay! I love the smell of freshly mowed alfalfa, I love raking it, and baling it.

Small square bales are less frequently seen these days, and the big squares are so very handy, but so many folks don't have the equipment to use the large bales, and will pay a premium for the small squares. The problem with the small bales is they are so labor intensive. As everybody who has ever baled hay knows, you only bale on the hottest muggiest days of the year. It must be a rule somewhere!    And those bales get heavier as the sun gets hotter (another rule). Now that I am old, I am hoping for a seat on the tractor instead of a place on the hay wagon. As a kid we had to walk along the side of the hay wagon and "toss" the bales up...modern technology has eliminated that job, thank heavens. I did get a spot on the tractor when I was in high school. It was awesome! My dad hired some cute guys to bale for us, and it was a pleasure to watch them while perched up on my tractor seat.  If I recall, Norm was one of those boys !!

The second worse spot was up in the hay mound....hot, dusty, and just plain awful. We no longer have a barn with a hay mound, so the bales are stacked in a plain old metal shed to keep the weather off them.

So if you are crazy, then so are we, and you are in good company.

[apm]

Very little more pleasurable than putting up a nice little hay crop. We do about 10 acres and usually only get two cuttings a year. The only stressful part the last couple years is watching the weather forecast and trying to decide when to start. My baler and rake, New Holland 68 and 55, were built the same year I was born, therefore we work at about the same speed. The Ford 501 sickle bar has more black magic to making it cut right than a sawmill does.

Greg

[Kansas]

I traded my hay equipment for labor when I built this house two years ago. NH side delivery rake, NH 9 ft cutter/crimper, NH square baler and a smaller Heston big round baler. Had a pop up bale loader to help with the small square bales. I was always going to add a bale accumulator for the small square bales, but never did. I miss putting down alfalfa, and really good prarie hay. But, getting out of the cattle business, it didn't make sense to keep going. I had lost my outbuildings for hay storage anyway. Plus you need to be there when its time to hay, and that can be difficult with the business.

Made good money just getting out of high school, custom hauling in small square bales to people's barns. 25 cents a bale, later 30. Two of us could haul from 650 - 1200 a day. At least we thought it was good money.

[paul case]

some more hay rules:
When you cut hay down it increases your rain chances by 20%.
When you have hay in the windrow, it increases your chances of breaking the baler by 250%
When you have more than a pickup load of square bales on the ground it increases rain chances by 70%.
If your hay makes good , generally so does everyone elses and it isn't worth as much.
PC

[chevytaHOE5674]

Wow sounds like I need to start shipping my hay half way across the country. I make hay for myself and also make some to sell. Small squares of horse quality hay sell for between 2-4 bucks a bale here depending on the time of year you buy. Last summer I sold quite a few small squares for either 2.25 or 2.50 a bale in the field and had to negotiate to get that much even. We only get one cutting a year and its usually decent as we don't get bad droughts or anything. 

[Norm]

Some of the difference in prices is location and some is quality of forage. For our area hay generally means alfalfa. If it's grass it's called grass hay and is sold for about what you are getting chevy. The top dollar is paid for diary hay and is good quality alfalfa with a high RFV.

[Left Coast Chris]

Here is another crazy part of being "hay crazy":   we have only about 5 acres in hay for my wifes two horses so we need high quality production.  It is flood irrigated river loam so it can produce very well.  We are just learning so we ripped, disced let the weed seed sprout then disced again and seeded a 50/50 alfalfa grass mix.    Around here we get hot summers and only gets to maybe 20 degrees F as the coldest in the winter so we can use a high number rating or more of a southern strain of alfalfa.   The issue is worms that get into the alfalfa and nematodes.  In the third year we generally have to replant all at decent cost to keep going. 

Any secrets to getting the right strain of alfalfa seed, spraying for worms, dealing with nematodes, fertilizing, keeping gophers out, keeping johnson grass out (a REAL bummer)......

Our hay has been a pretty big mine field of issues..... any secrets for success?

[chevytaHOE5674]

I have one field of Alfalfa and still only get maybe 3 bucks a bale if I'm lucky on a good day. In this area there isn't any demand for dairy hay, only demand is a little horse hay and the rest for beef cattle. And nobody around here could afford 8.50 a bale. 

I put in the field of Alfalfa in hopes that it would be financially beneficial. But I can't sell the hay for enough to offset the cost of planting and maintaining it, so I plan to go back to a grass hay mix in that field as it requires a lot less input cost.

[Kcwoodbutcher]

Hay price has gone up here  because of the drought in Texas and Oklahoma. Had been paying $$4.50 for 80# now I'm paying $5.50 for 60# and the quality is lower.  Most everything here has been shipped south at up to $10.00 a bale. I had a verbal contract with my main supplier but he reneged when the price went up, wanted $2.00 more a bale.  I told him keep it and I'll remember next year when he's looking for a place to sell his hay. I use about 3000 small squares a year and I'm good until the middle of spring, hope there's an early harvest.

[red oaks lumber]

as long as corn remains high priced you'll see a shortage of hay(less acerage) plus the drought down south will keep taking extra hay.in november i sold 4 semi loads of hay to a ranch in southern oklahoma. correction sold 3 donated 1 .

[sawguy21]

Oh Patty, you brought some memories. The area I grew up up in is was largely small dairy farms and alfalfa fields. Any thing over a quarter was considered good size. We got what we considered good money hiring ourselves out to the area farmers during haying season, it was all small bales in those days. Some of the old timers stuck with loose hay. My fingers still hurt when I smell fresh cut hay.  Most of those farms are subdivisions now, no money in it any more.

[bill m]

This is one thing I don't really miss. Where I used to work back in the mid 80s we custom baled for other people. About 22 to 24 thousand bales a summer.

[mooleycow]

horse hay here is 5.00 if delivered.  3.75 if i get up and go get it.  i remember as a young'un hay was placed around a locust pole out in the field.  you had to know how to place it on the wagon and how to unload the wagon  didn't want to try to pitch off what you be standing on.  hay rake pulled by a horse not fun, that metal seat was hard and got very hot in the summertime  good old days was not always good old days

[paul case]

mooleycow
Where is here?
PC

[scsmith42]

We've got around 15 acres in hay, just added about 3.5 more this past fall.  I've been putting up around 125 bales per acre for the first cutting, and about half that for a second cutting.  This past fall I put up another 120 bales per acre on the third cutting, so it was a good year.

The weather is the greatest frustration; I'm amazed how wrong weather forecasters can be during baling season!

We typically get about $4.00 per bale for horse quality fescue (50 lb square bale), and $50.00 for a 700 lb round bale.

[bandmiller2]

Always liked making hay,used to spend summers on my uncles farm in NB Canada we made it loose with a team. Went to  Stockbridge aggie school  Amhurst Ma. worked part time for an old polish farmer he had an old IH baler the one with the four cylinder water cooled engine.He would pack those DanG bales 75/80 lb.He was a fun guy to work for though haul a load and have a beer and shot.Was mowing years back with a JD #5 and the bar tripped and swung back a snapping turtle wedged between the bar and ground.Pauls right about the weather,minute you have hay cured clouds appear. Like you Patty I love the smells and watching the sickle bar slither down the row. Frank C.

[red oaks lumber]

the past couple of years the weather forecast at www.agweb.com has been very accurate, least in my area

[Norm]

Any secrets to getting the right strain of alfalfa seed, spraying for worms, dealing with nematodes, fertilizing, keeping gophers out, keeping johnson grass out (a REAL bummer)......

Our hay has been a pretty big mine field of issues..... any secrets for success?

Chris I put in some of the new round up ready leafhopper resistant alfalfa this spring. Johnson grass can be controlled with it but I'm not so sure about the nematodes. What I have seen is that making sure your land has the proper PH and good fertilization will make a big difference. The RR variety is pricey but it makes a very good stand.

[paul case]

scsnith42,
What is ''horse quality fescue''? around here horse people won't buy fescue hay for their hosses. It supposedly makes the mares uterous hard and will cause her to abort a foal. PC

[Taylortractornut]

I have a Takakita mini round baler I picked up by luck.     I got tired of working on  Square balers in shop class.    Plus my  tracto is just 30 hp.       THere was a grey market  mini baler he took in on trade and it had a few kinks to it.   I gave 450 for it and  got it working.      It goes on the 3 point and is completely self containe the pump runs off the pto on the tractor. 

I bought a JD rake for 400,   from a coworker and then a peice of on old 501 Ford  cycle mower for 75.      I baled 400 bale with it on small plots.   One plot was so small te man that owned cut it with a bush hog and  then hand raked it.        It makes a 50 to 80 pound roll  depending on the type of grass.      If it dries this week I have about  20 acres to bale sage grass for the landfill for erosion control.

Its a slower baler and uses more string than square machine.    But what was weird  I had women buying  the small round bales for 7.50 each for decorations.

[scsmith42]

scsnith42,
What is ''horse quality fescue''? around here horse people won't buy fescue hay for their hosses. It supposedly makes the mares uterous hard and will cause her to abort a foal. PC

Paul, "horse quality" hay is hay that has not been rained on, is not dusty, and was baled around 12% moisture content.

According to the vets, Tall 31 fescue is fine for all horses except for brood mares.  For brood mares, there is a type of fescue called "endophyte free" that is acceptable; however it burns out in the pastures every 3 - 5 years and has to be reseeded. 

For horses, my wife (veterinarian) prefers fescue to coastal bermuda because she has seen more impaction colics with bermuda, and fescue is a broader bladed grass.  Alfafa and timothy are best, but they don't grow well in our area.

[Woodwalker]

I bought  a new to me New Holland 565 square baler last spring. Due to the drought, I don't have a clue if it will work.

[scsmith42]

the past couple of years the weather forecast at www.agweb.com has been very accurate, least in my area

Thanks for the tip; I've bookmarked their site and will see how accurate their forecasts are in my area.

[bandmiller2]

Woodwalker you can check the knotter without hay,grab boath pices of twine in the hay chamber and pull them back,trip the knotter and you should have two tied loops in your hands.Be very very carefull where you put your hands and study it before you try,stay well behind the piston. Frank C.

[Kansas]

I didn't know they still made a mini round baler. I remember years ago the old allis chalmers small round balers. Dad used to buy a bunch of them laying out in the field. If the baler guy knew what he was doing, and had the baler running right, it made a good bale. If not, they were miserable to haul. We would haul a lot of them in the winter.

[Left Coast Chris]

Chris I put in some of the new round up ready leafhopper resistant alfalfa this spring. Johnson grass can be controlled with it but I'm not so sure about the nematodes. What I have seen is that making sure your land has the proper PH and good fertilization will make a big difference. The RR variety is pricey but it makes a very good stand.

Thanks Norm,

Was there a brand name to your seed and did you get it in in the Fall?  How many years do you plan on getting out of the seeding?   RR seed sounds great but if you use round-up you probably have pure alfalfa not a grass mix?  With our standard feed store seed, the last two reseedings I planted in Feb and had a good amount of weeds in the first cutting.   We often get 4 cuttings here so not a real big issue but planting in September/October seems to work best around here. It sprouts in the first rains with no weeds due to cold temps.  A new seeding lasts us about 3 years without spraying.   Also, what ph did you go for?  Ours is around 6 naturally (sandy river loam).   Sounds like you fertilize and add sulpher?    For the gophers, I trapped 64 last year on the 5 acres. I started trapping this year again (Fall/early winter is best) and got 5 my first setting.  I should be gaining on the gophers.   

[Norm]

Chris I'll stop in at the place I buy my seed from and get you the details on it today. Yes I go for all alfalfa as it's RFV is higher and gets better money at auctions. On my older stands I will allow the grass to creep in as it's not easy to control and that hay is sold for horses or feed lots and it's not tested. I shot for 5 years on my stands as it's used as a rotation on some of my tougher soils to build them with.

If your PH is that low I would lime it to bring it up to 6.5. Have it tested and then have them tell you what you need use to bring it up to the proper PH. In my area I put on 2 tons per acre every 3 or 4 years. Yes sulfur is also needed but in very small amounts as it will lower your PH. I'm more concerned about the phosphorous and potassium levels as alfalfa is a heavy feeder of both. Again a fertility test is very helpful in determining what your soil has available and what needs to be added and at what levels.

I want to add that everything I've learned about this is from a good buddy I farm with. He's forgotten more about raising hay than I'll every know. 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I didn't know they still made a mini round baler. I remember years ago the old allis chalmers small round balers. Dad used to buy a bunch of them laying out in the field. If the baler guy knew what he was doing, and had the baler running right, it made a good bale. If not, they were miserable to haul. We would haul a lot of them in the winter.

You mean one of these? Allis Chalmers Roto-baler still use it for fun and it really makes a nice bale if you rake the hay right. It is fun to keep the antique equipment alive and working.
 

[Norm]

Here's the link to the alfalfa I was talking about Chris. I used the 2nd one down in that list.

Alfalfa Seed

They have an office in Fresno, CA.

[weimedog]

I usually put up around 175 rounds a year and do around the same for my neighbor...we turn hay to beef and manure around here... wonder sometimes if it would more cost effective to just sell the hay!

[Kansas]

Yes chevy, that the one. there used to be a lot of them in certain parts of the area. They used them a lot for native prarie hay, some for the cool season grasses. Once hauled in about 3000 bales of those for a guy. We used a ferris wheel type bale loader, put them in the back of a truck with sides, and dumped them with the hoist at his farm. That loader didn't care for them, but it did work.

[Taylortractornut]

That baler you speak of is called a Rotobaler.     I wanted one at first and found one but the man scrapped it.       In Japan they make a line of round and small square balers.   Mine is a Takakita and  they is one made by IHI called Star.      Takakita make parts for Krone balers.       Mine also is a chain type baler like a Newholland.     New in 1989  TK imported a few for 10K each.   Mine was brought over with a grey market tractor.     It looks like a scaled down  baler.   They  even make a few walk behinds on track carriers.

I got mine mainly for my small operation.  I hated trying to buy a few  bales per year when I can make my own.   I also  use them as thick garden mulch for mater plants and taters  by unrolling  the smaller bales along the rows.

Heres a youtube link to an IHI Star         

[chevytaHOE5674]

Taylor that baler looks like it takes a long time to tie and eject the bale (by my rough timing 20-23 seconds per bale by the video). My Roto-baler will wrap the bale and eject it in about 5-6 seconds. Over the course of an entire field that adds up to a lot of time IMO.

[Taylortractornut]

The rotobaler  will out work one of these little balers unless you have one set up with a new wrapper.     I actually wanted a Rotobaler but  they just arent around here anymore.      M baler is a little faster than the Star machine  It doesnt have the arm  like that one.    In good hay the  Takakita will string a bale in about ten seconds.       I hope to get a netter for mine   this winter.     

[Kansas]

You get up about 30 miles north and northeast of me, you still see the balers. Not sure how many-or if any- run anymore. When I worked at the feed store, we carried twine for them. It was sisal and small, both the size of the twine and the size of the rolls.  Didn't sell a lot of it, but did sell some. That was about 13 or so years ago. I get back up that way, I need to toss the camera in the pickup in case someone is still making them up there. Used to be thousands of acres of hayground done back as late as the late 70's done with them. That was just about the time the big round balers started coming out.

[Left Coast Chris]

Thanks Norm,
Good to know there is a seed company in Fresno that carries it.  Amazing what they can do these days.  I will be checking with The Haymaker co. to see about the WL350H.RR seed (exciting).   

[bandmiller2]

Rebuilding that old Ferguson 20 three point side delivery rake.Pulling all the starwheel tine bar bearings and replacing anything questionable.Bearings are just common 203 and 202 sealed ball bearings.I'am considering replacing all the rake teeth [108] the cheapest I've found is Shoup at $1.99 ea with free shipping.Anyone know a better deal.? Frank C.

[mooleycow]

buy hay from a man in rockymount n.c.  was in s.c. few years back.  went to the s.c. draft horse association event, old time farming machinery, mules and horses.  they let yougn's and city folk plow, was a hoot!  seen pictures, new pictures not old books, horse drawn  square hay balers. there is a mule festival in n.c. some folks might want to chime in, never went.  hear tell a lady ask a man if his mule was easy to load he dropped the tailgate to the truck and the mule put his 2 feet in the bed of the truck.  i seen the picture. 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Kansas I'm still able to order the small twine balls for it, but can't buy it locally anymore (could up until about 2-3 years ago though). I've been thinking about making a new twine box to hold standard size twine balls to make my life easier though.

[Kansas]

Chevy, I am trying to remember. Is the twine the same size diameter on those small rolls and sisal for big round balers is? I was thinking it was smaller, but its been too many years to remember for sure.Not sure if that would affect your baler.

Sisal was getting scarce for even big round bales. Everyone was going to plastic. Now I suppose a lot of those have gone to net wrap.

[chevytaHOE5674]

True roto-baler twine is/was a smaller diameter. But if you clean and open up the twine mechanism the larger twine will feed through i think. Just have to be able to fit the larger twine balls on the machine someplace.

[sandhills]

My siblings and I followed an old Allis baler around for summers, pulling two silage wagons with the endgates removed with a 4010 JD, 12 mile round trip getting them home.  If I remember right one wagon held 70 some bales and the other 80 some, nothing to load with but hay hooks and us, I'd have rather been irrigating  .  Dad still has the baler and one he bought for parts but haven't had to pick those little bales up for years, thank the good lord for big round balers! 

[Taylortractornut]

Ive been buying the rubber mounted single teeth at TSC for my rake.  Every time I use it I lose a few of te old ones.      I dont know the number on  my rake but its  pretty old.     Right now I need 31 teeth.  Its doing fine now I just buy a handfull every time in TSC as they  only keep a few at a time. 
Im working on a bale loader trade now.  I wonder if an old side  chain loader will work. 


Heres another small baler used with a walking tractor.

[Corley5]

  I've been putting up 500-600 4X4 round bales a season since 2005 when I bought a new New Holland 730 baler.  We did small squares before that to the tune 10,000 -12,000 bales per season.  The most we did was 14,000 in a season to sell.  A New Holland Super 68 and an IH 46 were the square balers.  I've still got the 68 in the barn.  Grandpa Whittaker bought it new in the spring a 1960.  It's in working condition just in case.  I have no plans of using it anytime in the foreseeable future.  The labor costs are just too high for little bales.  All hay is sold none is fed.  Hay consuming animals are not allowed    The last years we had beef cattle we dry chopped our hay and blew it in the barn loose.  Grandpa Bob did that too but he also baled hay.
  In 2007 I upgraded to a new 488 New Holland haybine from our NH sickle bar and in 2010 moved to a 12 wheel New Holland batwing rake from the old NH 56 Rollabar.  Now I'm planning on downsizing  in the next few years as my wine grapes begin producing.  I'd still like to upgrade to a haybine with at least a 12' cut.  Faster is better but more wine grapes in the ground are the best    I dropped a couple hay customers and was glad then a couple came along to replace them    It's hard to quit   

[WDH]

Corley5,

Soon you will be able to console yourself on the vagaries of the hay business with wine  .

[bandmiller2]

After I bale a field I go over it again with the side delivery, usally can pick up a few more bales per acre,figured that paid for the fuel. Frank C.

[bandmiller2]

Still rebuilding that old fergy side delivery rake straightening the tine bars.Rolling them on the mill ways marking where they wobble with chalk then to an old oak tree crotch and pull them straight.Just got 108 new tines from Shoup.Supposed to be high 50's today may just paint that old sucker in January. Frank C.

[mooleycow]

Rufus brought a load of hay this morning from rockymount nc.  still $5.00 a bale.  drought cut them short last year, about 5,000 bales short on  fields  good folks to do business with

[Woodwalker]

Guy has some square hay over at a local convenience  store. It's looks to have been rained on just enough to turn it. It's got a little Bahia, something that looks a little like what I was told is Millet, some weeds and some switch cane. Loose 65# bale for $9.50.

[chain]

Our great-granddad began a alfalfa farm in 1900, they called it the Alfalfa Farming Co. The government built a experimental drying barn that had double walls and air ducts I guess the drying came from natural drafts from wind through the barn. Later when I came along we had about two hundred acres of alfalfa. All other work stopped on the farm during haying... of cutting, raking, baling, and stacking in the barns.

We usually never sold a bale untill the dread of winter, that is, always a snow or ice and the most frigid weather of the season then, at that time, the truckers came to the door to buy up tons of bales of alfalfa, going whereever the market was best. I was always caught with a couple other farmhands as my Dad was the Boss, didn't make any difference, down to the barn I was ordered, often pulling the semi-trucks in with a tractor or two and loading them up. The truckers were masters at stacking the bales just so, as they wanted the leafiest and greenest bales to the outside and sell the whole load at a premium.

We had a crop-duster lease a air strip that was also our alfalfa field. I was raking along one afternoon down the middle and a roaring got louder and louder, just then a double-winged crop-duster came over about ten feet over my head and dropped not over ten yards in front of my tractor and blew hay ever which way. Just part of the job, boy, those were the DAZE!