Author Topic: Secret Recipes for Blade Lube (Read 2587 times)

Macgyver · « **on:** December 22, 2011, 12:22:12 pm »

Hey Everyone. I'm relatively new to sawing, and have been running a pine-sol water mix for a while in my Norwood MX-34. I ran the water tank empty right as it was getting dark last weekend, so I decided it was about time to quit anyway. Apparently it got down to 14 degrees overnight, and stayed around 20 all day. I didn't have the patience to sit by and thaw the lines to swap to windshield wiper fluid, and I wasn't sure how well that would work anyway.

Anyone got any super secret recipes, or anything that just works really well for blade lube in the winter? Any advice is greatly appreciated, thanks everyone in advance.

red oaks lumber · « **Reply #1 on:** December 22, 2011, 12:59:30 pm »

windsshield wassher fluid, good to minus 20, cheap

DouginUtah · « **Reply #2 on:** December 22, 2011, 01:38:30 pm »

Well, it used to be cheap...

The lowest price I've found this year is $1.78 at Wal-Mart. I think Home Depot wants $2.78. Just two or three years ago you could buy it for under a dollar on sale.

Quite a bit more than the claimed 3.6% inflation rate.

nas · « **Reply #3 on:** December 22, 2011, 04:03:03 pm »

I have a super secret recipe, but it's a super secret

Nick

red oaks lumber · « **Reply #4 on:** December 22, 2011, 07:19:42 pm »

at fleet farm i buy a case of 6 for $7.19

SPIKER · « **Reply #5 on:** December 22, 2011, 07:26:33 pm »

Menards often has it for 98cent still (ours anyhow) for the Blue or the BUG remover stuff...
Mark

Norm · « **Reply #6 on:** December 23, 2011, 05:41:34 am »

Try Dollar General for it too.

ladylake · « **Reply #7 on:** December 23, 2011, 07:12:50 am »

Diesel is a lot cheaper, takes about 1/2 gal per 8 hours. Steve

Magicman · « **Reply #8 on:** December 23, 2011, 07:46:20 am »

Be sure to check the label to insure that the jug contains either 0 or -32 degree formula. If you find that you have a frozen faucet, wrap it with one of those chemical hand warmers and a towel. It will thaw out quickly.

I purge the system with -32 degree formula.

thecfarm · « **Reply #9 on:** December 23, 2011, 07:54:36 am »

Another idea you may want to try with the amount is have 2 valves on your line.One have wide open,use it as a on and off ONLY,than have another to adjust with to have just a drip or a trickle or a stream.. Than use the on and off valve to turn the lube off when you are doing something else and turn it back on when you get sawing and the flow will be just right. This will save on the amount of lube you use too.

red oaks lumber · « **Reply #10 on:** December 23, 2011, 12:54:43 pm »

steve,
diesle must be cheap in your area 1/2 gal. is still over 1.75 . i can saw all day on 1 gal. washer fluid :)frozen wood dosent need as much lube, imo

eastberkshirecustoms · « **Reply #11 on:** December 23, 2011, 01:26:57 pm »

Diesel is $4.05 a gallon here, not exactly a cheap blade lube.

Banjo picker · « **Reply #12 on:** December 23, 2011, 06:44:41 pm »

It never freezes ...so I never have to purge a tank...and I don't think I will use a half gal. in 8 hours....it depends on how your mill is set up...with a true drip system it don't take very much....Yes it will gell at about 10 deg. and that might happen here two or three times a year...maybe...And when and if it does, I dang sure won't care, cause I won't be sawing anyway...Banjo

ladylake · « **Reply #13 on:** December 25, 2011, 05:35:13 am »

I,ve tried washer fluid in the winter, no way I'd get by on 1 gal a day with the wood I saw, more like 4 or 5. Steve

ladylake · « **Reply #14 on:** December 25, 2011, 05:39:24 am »

Quote from: ladylake on December 25, 2011, 05:35:13 am

I,ve tried washer fluid in the winter, no way I'd get by on 1 gal a day with the wood I saw, more like 4 or 5. I was stretching it a bit when I said 1/2 gal per 8 hours, it's less and no jelling trouble up here where it's mixed for the winter. Steve

bandmiller2 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 25, 2011, 07:16:57 am »

Mac,just use your regular mix and add some methonol in the winter thats the working ingrediant in WW fluid.Myself I use diesel/oil mix applied with a wick year round no drips,no buildup,no rust,no smell,no discoloration,no BS. Frank C.

Kansas · « **Reply #16 on:** December 25, 2011, 10:21:41 am »

So much of it depends on what your sawing, and what your climate is. Some woods we rarely have to use anything, such as cottonwood or sycamore. Others like the oaks, hickory, ash cut much better with diesel than anything else I have found. When you compare costs between things like windshield wiper fluid and diesel, look at the pile of the lumber at the end of the day. Look at how often you had to change the blade. The cost per board foot is inconsequential on either one. The size of the pile of lumber and not having blades heat up due to buildup, causing them to fail prematurely, is. Look at the cost of downtime due to freezing.

357blacksmith · « **Reply #17 on:** December 28, 2011, 10:18:28 pm »

Down here in east Texas, Dawn dishwashing liquid ( few drops to the gallon of water) keeps sap from building up on the blade, not sure about freezing temps though. Not that big of a problem here, but so cheap it might be worth a try, just let it drain out when your finished for the day so it wont freeze over night. Just a thought.

Dan_Shade · « **Reply #18 on:** December 28, 2011, 10:47:15 pm »

I used vegetable oil for a while, but it pretty much made a mess of everything. now I use dawn and pinesol.

Dave VH · « **Reply #19 on:** February 03, 2012, 05:25:48 pm »

is there a problem with any of these recipes staining the wood? I like the idea of diesel only because I have a large tank at my place, convience. I really don't mill that much right now anyhow. I haven't used any lube up to now, but i understand the advantage for it. I just outfitted my saw with a luber, and I'm ready to add the right formula. So far, I saw only hardwoods, and if you look at the logs that I have here, that's all it's going to be for a long time. I'm glad that this thread was started.

Magicman · « **Reply #20 on:** February 04, 2012, 09:43:35 am »

Here are a couple of LINKS to my favorite blade lube.

250quality · « **Reply #21 on:** February 05, 2012, 07:30:10 am »

Diesel fuel with a drip system to a felt pad rubbing on the blade. I used to play with water, pinesol and anti freeze mix but always running out too fast. A gallon of diesel lasts forever now.

Island Sawyer · « **Reply #22 on:** February 05, 2012, 03:57:11 pm »

One part diesel to every two parts diesel.

tyb525 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 05, 2012, 07:12:35 pm »

I've been using a few drops of dish soap to 1 gallon of water. In the warmer months I add a little bleach too, helps control staining I think. I've yet to try diesel, although I think it would work well.

A few time's I've used motor oil from a mechanic's oiler, when I needed to resaw a few boards but was too lazy to go back to the house and refill the water jug

Literally just a few drops for a few boards worked great.

eastberkshirecustoms · « **Reply #24 on:** February 05, 2012, 08:24:23 pm »

Quote from: Island Sawyer on February 05, 2012, 03:57:11 pm

One part diesel to every two parts diesel.

How do you know when you have the mix just right, or need to adjust it a little? Take a little diesel out, then add some more?

YellowHammer · « **Reply #25 on:** February 05, 2012, 10:28:41 pm »

What about running Diesel on Woodmizers? The manual says it'll cause damage so I haven't used it. Does anybody do this and what are the results?
Thanks
YH

Kansas · « **Reply #26 on:** February 06, 2012, 07:12:21 am »

We have done it for years, first on the LT 30 manual, then the LT40 Super, now the LT 70. No problems.

I suppose on a gas or diesel, if one were to catch on fire, it would make it harder to contain the fire possibly. I never have noticed staining. It is a little bit nastier for the off bearer.

thecfarm · « **Reply #27 on:** February 06, 2012, 07:30:18 am »

It's only a drip every few seconds,not a steady stream. I don't saw a lot,so it does not make a mess. But even when I saw for a week off and on,I don't notice a built up. But as said,if sawing good hard wood for furniture the diesel may not be a good idea. I've never seen it get on the belts or really on anything else. I use half chain saw oil and half diesel.

taw6243 · « **Reply #28 on:** February 06, 2012, 08:16:50 am »

Zeco -20 Windshield Washer

$1.19
List Price: $1.59

You Save: $0.40

Sale Price Good Through 02-12-2012

http://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/auto/maintenance-fluids/zeco-20-windshield-washer/p-1679727-c-10098.htm

Tim

Brad_S. · « **Reply #29 on:** February 06, 2012, 08:22:34 am »

I have never had a problem with diesel staining premium hardwoods. If it doesn't dissapate in the drying (air or kiln), it gets planed off anyhow. Then too, even water borne finishes have petroleum distillates in their base so even if some would manage to get to the finished state, it would not severly effect the finish.
The only time I have an issue with diesel buildup becoming a (remotely) possible fire issue is when I walk away and forget to turn the valve off. Otherwise, it gets carried away in such small amounts in the sawdust that the dust poses a fire hazard much more than any diesel saturation.

Chuck White · « **Reply #30 on:** February 06, 2012, 09:12:53 am »

Two years ago, I used "used cooking oil" from deep fryers, soap and water.

That recipe was ½ gallon of cooking oil, 4½ gallons of water and 3 or 4 table spoons of Dawn dish soap.

The soap would allow the oil and water to immulsify (mix

), which worked very well until the weather started to cool off, then the oil would start to solidify and float on top of the mix! $:-\$

So, now I just use water with a little soap, which works for me.

I don't saw in the Winter.

jason.weir · « **Reply #31 on:** February 06, 2012, 01:15:02 pm »

wow - so many different recipes...

I've never used any water or water based lube.. Always been some kind of petroleum product..

75-25 gasoline and bar & chain oil really keeps the pine pitch down.

The manual mill I use doesn't have an automatic lube system.. I keep the stuff in a squirt bottle - spray a little on the blade and guide wheels every couple logs keeps things looking good and running smooth..

Jason

buildthisfixthat · « **Reply #32 on:** February 06, 2012, 02:14:48 pm »

used motor oil its cheap and easy

thecfarm · « **Reply #33 on:** February 06, 2012, 06:31:07 pm »

I tried the used oil once. That was it. Even at a drip I could see it on the lumber.
jason I have a special plug that goes into a gas can,but could use any hard plastic container and it has 2 valves on it. All gravity feed. One valve is for the adjustment,just a drip,don't use this valve much and the other is the one that I open and close.

customsawyer · « **Reply #34 on:** February 06, 2012, 06:49:01 pm »

Jason I would highly recommend that you switch to something other than gasoline. One spark from hitting a small piece of dirt and your mill is likely to go up in smoke.

jason.weir · « **Reply #35 on:** February 06, 2012, 09:25:45 pm »

Quote from: customsawyer on February 06, 2012, 06:49:01 pm

Jason I would highly recommend that you switch to something other than gasoline. One spark from hitting a small piece of dirt and your mill is likely to go up in smoke.

Good advice... and can't argue with you one bit.. Although it's not like the thing is dripping wet and the oil changes the volatility significantly - not as good as diesel but much better than straight gas... With all the sawing I've done I guarantee plenty of sparks from dirt\rocks\metal.. Have I been lucky, maybe but I'll keep the fire extinguisher close by anyways..

-J

beenthere · « **Reply #36 on:** February 06, 2012, 09:52:02 pm »

Quote

maybe but I'll keep the fire extinguisher close by anyways..

Hide it under your cap, as that might be where you need it.

Bandmill Bandit · « **Reply #37 on:** February 06, 2012, 09:59:04 pm »

Weeeeelllllllllllll!!

Still experimenting! But

1 gallon (5 litres) wind shield washer concentrate ($32.00 for 25 Litre Pail including $6.00 pail deposit)
4 gallons (20 litres) water.
1/2 gallon (2 litres) original Pine-sol ($2.89 per liter on sale. bulk price is 49 cents a litre)
1 pint (1/2 litre) super bug eraser ($13.00 for a 5 litre jug. 25 litre pail price is $38.99)

This mix is good to minus 10 F or -23C

I will adjust the concentrate level to match temps that it has to work in.

I am on the first 6 gallon batch and cut first logs today with this mix. I have been able to reduce the flow required by about 25% to 30% over regular wind shield antifreeze with cascade, based on the first day of sawing.

This 6 gallon mix costs me $12.27 Canadian or about $2.04 a gallon. so far working great. I had to correct the numbers. I got mixed up calculating for litres and gallons. sorry. somebody check my numbers i think i got right now.

Used diesel once and didn't like the stink. Performance was good and I would say from one day of sawing that this mix is just as good so far.

Will be sawing only pine and spruce next week so will post update when a day of that is done.

If this works like it appears it will, I will be buying the concentrate in either 45 gallon drums or 200 gal skid tanks as I can get it without the blue die and reduce the cost by about 10 or 15 cents a gallon of finished mix.
Also will be buying pine-sol bulk as well which will cut the cost of that component by about 80%.

This recipe rises out of a lab result that I had a chemical engineer friend of mine run about 2 months ago.

Bibbyman · « **Reply #38 on:** February 07, 2012, 09:04:50 am »

The temperatures this winter has been mild. So I usually flush the system with straight windshield washer fluid at the end of the day and bring the tank in. If it’s still freezing in the morning I just mix some windshield washer fluid in with soap and water to keep it from freezing. It’s been warming up to the low 60s so I don’t mix but maybe 1/4 tank. When that runs out, I top off with water and soap to finish the day. So. We’ve only used about two gallons of windshield washer fluid so far this winter.

We were at Wal-Mart yesterday getting “stuff” and I noted they had -20 mix on sale for $1.89. I was smart and bought 6 bottles. We were later in Tractor Supply and they had it for $1.50. So. “Save money, live bitter.” Didn’t pay out this time. I should have “Shopped more and saved more.”

Chuck White · « **Reply #39 on:** February 07, 2012, 09:41:38 am »

Bibby, you should have got some more at Tractor Supply.

Look at the $$$$ you'd be saving!

Never fails though!

Bandmill Bandit · « **Reply #40 on:** February 07, 2012, 09:56:15 am »

Bibby

How much does the murphy oil soap cost? Not sure we can get it here in Canada but I am going to look for it now.

May be it will work better than the the Pine Sol and may be I could use less.

Bibbyman · « **Reply #41 on:** February 07, 2012, 12:26:38 pm »

Cost is about the same as name brand dish soap.

Bandmill Bandit · « **Reply #42 on:** February 07, 2012, 09:28:47 pm »

THanks Bibby

Same price (ish) as pine sol up here. $2.49 a litre. Next batch I mix will get a pint of it in stead of the pine sol.

Local Hardware store is checking to see if they can still get in a 5 gallon pail.

TGS · « **Reply #43 on:** February 11, 2012, 01:38:21 pm »

Are any of you diesel users operating with belted wheels?

For the wick systems - are you only getting lube on the top of the blade like on drip systems? I've been contemplating a homemade wick system for my B20.

Thanks
Martin

thecfarm · « **Reply #44 on:** February 11, 2012, 01:47:38 pm »

Yep,belted wheels,but ONLY a slow drip. I see more oil on my chain saw than my mill. I don't use my alot,but when I do it get used for a day or so off and on,and no slinging off the "recipe" is noticed.

Dave VH · « **Reply #45 on:** February 11, 2012, 01:52:43 pm »

I just used diesel for a day on cherry, about a drip a second, the blade stayed lubed and pitch free. 5 days later, I can still see spots on the wood. I did about 700bft. I think that I'm going to try something else next time.

tyb525 · « **Reply #46 on:** February 11, 2012, 01:56:33 pm »

Dave, most likely those spots will be planed off, but diesel won't evaporate off the wood without planing. I think you might try using less, a drip a second is a lot when it comes to diesel. Cherry doesn't need much at all to keep the blade clean, most hardwoods don't (although a few do). Softwoods are what will really gunk up a blade.

Then again, using soap and water mix, I still get spots on the wood from whatever, but they've always planed off.

jacksaws · « **Reply #47 on:** February 11, 2012, 06:09:07 pm »

Hi all this is my first post . Just wanted to say i use half chain oil & diesel. i use a wick on the top of the blade. I have a large pump oil can mounted to the side of my LM2000 with a small hose slid over the end of the spout an to the wick. Just a couple of pumps every couple of boards and your good to go. works great for me.

Magicman · « **Reply #48 on:** February 11, 2012, 07:29:49 pm »

Welcome to the Forestry Forum jacksaws.

How about an intro and telling us more about yourself and your sawing interest?

jacksaws · « **Reply #49 on:** February 11, 2012, 09:29:42 pm »

thanks Magicman I live in NW ark. I have had a circle mill for about 40 years then got to wanting a bandmill. I have had it for about 2 years. I am not to much on a computer. I can turn one on then I am in trouble.I have been about a year to my first post. I found out it is not impossible.thanks again.

jacksaws · « **Reply #50 on:** February 11, 2012, 09:36:01 pm »

Quote from: jacksaws on February 11, 2012, 09:29:42 pm

thanks Magicman I live in NW ark. I have had a circle mill for about 40 years then got to wanting a bandmill. I have had it for about 2 years. I am not to much on a computer. I can turn one on then I am in trouble.I have been about a year to my first post. I found out it is not impossible.thanks again.

Magicman · « **Reply #51 on:** February 11, 2012, 09:37:17 pm »

I noticed that you had been a "silent" member for quite a while. You have several active FF members close to you in Arkansas as well as in Oklahoma.

Dave VH · « **Reply #52 on:** February 11, 2012, 09:41:16 pm »

when you guys say "wick", what kind of material do you use as a wick? I can easily incorporate one the way that I designed my lube system, I'm just curious as to what to use.

jacksaws · « **Reply #53 on:** February 11, 2012, 09:45:15 pm »

sorry I said I did not know what I was doing. I will get better if youall dont throw me off of the Forum.

jacksaws · « **Reply #54 on:** February 11, 2012, 09:50:22 pm »

Dave what I used was a piece of felt. I used a felt air filer from an old air compsessor .It works good.

eastberkshirecustoms · « **Reply #55 on:** February 12, 2012, 12:36:51 am »

Quote from: Dave VH on February 11, 2012, 09:41:16 pm

when you guys say "wick", what kind of material do you use as a wick? I can easily incorporate one the way that I designed my lube system, I'm just curious as to what to use.

Dave, not any ol' felt will work. It should have some 'body' so the blade rotation won't fold it over, over time. I used extra firm F1 felt, 3/4" thick x 2" wide to build my wick systems (infeed and outfeed) and bought it here: http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/118/3504/=g7lx9l. It is pricey, but a 30" length will make many wick pads. What I did was make holders out of 1"x2" rect. tubing, capped off on the top, then installed a spring inside to give it a slight down pressure and to automatically adjust for wear. There is a hose fitting at the top to supply the lube onto the felt.
The felt will soak up and hold an amazing amount of liquid. Printing presses use them on the sides of the cylinders to lube and clean the bearers. Simple but effective.

eastberkshirecustoms · « **Reply #56 on:** February 12, 2012, 12:49:26 am »

Question- has anyone tried to use tire bead compound as a blade lube? I can buy it it in bulk for cheap. It is a biodegradable, soap based product with a rust inhibitor. It comes in a tub as a thick paste, then a very small amount is mixed into a gallon of water. The stuff I buy doesn't contain silicone, the rust inhibitor would be good for the bands, and it definitely wouldn't hurt the bandwheel rubber. It will freeze up though. Any thoughts?

Magicman · « **Reply #57 on:** February 12, 2012, 08:01:18 am »

If it is non-staining then give it a try.

sdunston · « **Reply #58 on:** February 12, 2012, 08:49:16 am »

Do you guys that saw frozen still use blade lube?, Last winter I sawed maple w/o blade lube,When you pulled off the board just sawn it had a layer of ice/frost on both cant and off loaded board. Blade stayed cool,cuts were straight, blade seemed to stay sharp so is it safe to say that no lube is needed when sawing frozen logs

. BTW the outside temp was around 10 deg f.

Thanks Sam

terrifictimbersllc · « **Reply #59 on:** February 12, 2012, 09:59:36 am »

Frozen will help with heat but not with buildup of residue on the blade. Will depend on wood. In my area maple, hickory, ash, and of course sticky softwoods need a lube to keep the blade clean.

Bandmill Bandit · « **Reply #60 on:** February 12, 2012, 11:58:29 am »

Quote from: sdunston on February 12, 2012, 08:49:16 am

Do you guys that saw frozen still use blade lube?, Last winter I sawed maple w/o blade lube,When you pulled off the board just sawn it had a layer of ice/frost on both cant and off loaded board. Blade stayed cool,cuts were straight, blade seemed to stay sharp so is it safe to say that no lube is needed when sawing frozen logs . BTW the outside temp was around 10 deg f.

Thanks Sam

I am sawing mostly frozen Aspen and Black Poplar right now with a few pine and spruce as customers order. Still using some blade lube but very minimal on the aspen and poplar just to help keep the band clean and normal flow with the pine and spruce. On my second batch of my blade lube recipe I used 2 oz of the Murphys oil soap instead of the Pine Sol. That cuts the price for my mix from $12.27 for 6 ish gallons to $7.12 or about a 1.19 a gallon. Just mixed on the week end so havent tried it yet.

The first batch with the pine sol worked real good. I will try another batch of that as well but with 6 oz of pine sol instead of 2 litres.

Magicman · « **Reply #61 on:** February 12, 2012, 12:03:37 pm »

Two ounces of liquid Cascade per gallon cost less than 75 cents for a 5 gallon mixture.

Bandmill Bandit · « **Reply #62 on:** February 12, 2012, 12:12:15 pm »

Quote from: Magicman on February 12, 2012, 12:03:37 pm

Two ounces of liquid Cascade per gallon cost less than 75 cents for a 5 gallon mixture.

Magic I tried the Cascade but up here it has an abrasive additive that clogged up my nozzles. I liked the way it worked but the clogging was a pain.

The first batch of my mix was very very effective. Best I have ever used and I would say I cut my flow rate at least in half. My goal now is get the price of winter lube to about a $1 gallon. For summer I will just remove the windshield anti freeze concentrate. With out the concentrate my mix should be about $1.92 for the 6 ish gallon mix. That concentrate is $1.04 a litre or about 5.20 a gallon. What I should do is move south far enough so I dont need to use anti freeze at all.

Magicman · « **Reply #63 on:** February 12, 2012, 01:56:42 pm »

OK. Maybe the formulation is different. Liquid Cascade is all that I have used for over 10 years and I have not had the clogging that your describe. I'm not saying that I have never had to clear a nozzle, because I occasionally do. We all have to use what works for each of us.

terrifictimbersllc · « **Reply #64 on:** February 12, 2012, 02:10:52 pm »

Wood-Mizer recently suggested for reducing nozzle clogging, that I clean out the block that the nozzles are mounted on, and treat it inside with a rust inhibitor. Haven't done that yet. I've been using Cascade gel for the last year or so since I ran out of the WM additive I bought with the mill. Keeping the tank and the filters clean as I can, but usually every other day of sawing I still have to clear a nozzle with a thin stiff wire. Cascade and WW fluid has a distinctive taste.

bandmiller2 · « **Reply #65 on:** February 12, 2012, 09:06:02 pm »

Wick lubing with diesel/oil is very economical.Wicks can be felt or the old lantern type wicks.Myself I picked up a bunch of the wicks used in the old road pots,before flashing lights.A wick assembly can be mounted on top and one beside the guide to get boath sides of the band. Frank C.

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Author Topic: Secret Recipes for Blade Lube (Read 2587 times)