Author Topic: 440D issues (Read 1039 times)

inthewoods · « **on:** December 13, 2011, 07:16:32 pm »

My '85 JD 440D either has a bad clutch or it's out of adjustment. Winch slips also, or will slip without stalling the engine. Can't imagine this is related considering that pto's turning regardless. ?? Also, last time i pulled the cable in the winch didn't stop when intended & wrapped up all my chokers.
Thanks for any input.

snowstorm · « **Reply #1 on:** December 13, 2011, 08:30:50 pm »

pto shaft for the winch gets its power from the pressure plate......clutch....how much free travel in the pedal??should be 2" if none it could cause it to slip. did bolth problems start at the same time?? they shouldnt be related

inthewoods · « **Reply #2 on:** December 13, 2011, 09:43:23 pm »

I'll check the pedal tomorrow, but what I can tell you is it's probably not 2". Everything happens in the first few millimeters.
I bought this machine about a year ago and it seemed the clutch was slipping then, but it's gotten much worse after a couple of rugged jobs. Also, the winch problem was noticed after the clutch was already slipping, but mabey I just didn't tug hard enough.
if there's not enough free travel hopefully I haven't smoked it as a result.

Bobus2003 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 13, 2011, 10:39:14 pm »

Quote from: snowstorm on December 13, 2011, 08:30:50 pm

pto shaft for the winch gets its power from the pressure plate......clutch....how much free travel in the pedal??should be 2" if none it could cause it to slip. did bolth problems start at the same time?? they shouldnt be related

Did JD change the 440 at sometime so the winch runs off the pressure plate? On my '69 it has a constant connection, so the clutch has no effect of the winch. My PTO spins at all times.

I Replaced the Clutch in my 440 2 years ago cause it totally quit working. JD wants a crazy amount for a clutch disk/pressure plate. So new clutch and if i work it to hard it will still slip.. Dunno why cause everything is adjusted to spec.

If the winch slips while winching in it is prolly the winch clutch getting worn or is out of adjustment. if its slipping after its winched in and your pulling its the brake. On the older 440's you would just let the cable slip out against the brake and it would adjust itself after 20' or so. Mine is so warn now that it slips constantly and i just have to keep pulling the wood back up while driving

inthewoods · « **Reply #4 on:** December 13, 2011, 11:28:29 pm »

The winch pto is not affected by stepping on the clutch on this one(1985). As far as the winch... the brake will hold anything, but when pulling the cable in if there's a pretty large load, all of a sudden you've got nothing. Then I can at least then set the brake on the winch, and drive foward dragging my load closer to where I can reel it in.
Even at that rate in 4 feet of snow with diamond and a halfs the thing still gets the job done. Starts at 25 below too. I'll check the pedal before it goes out again; now worried i might be burning it up because of that.

snowstorm · « **Reply #5 on:** December 14, 2011, 05:41:17 am »

yes it gets its power from the pressure plate. thats the only thing that is gonna turn with the clutch in. live power. i added the word clutch so that some that didnt really know what i ment would. two splines shaftes one inside the other

jocco · « **Reply #6 on:** December 14, 2011, 09:10:05 am »

Just a thought to rule out the winch problem. watch the shaft (imput) and have a friend pull the winch (power in) if the shaft stops turning and the winch stop too it inside the tranny clutch area. If it contineus to turn its in the winch (clutch band stripped shaft etc.)

inthewoods · « **Reply #7 on:** December 14, 2011, 09:37:00 am »

Shaft's turning when the winch looses power. Must be something internal to the winch... Or fluid? doesn't look so great. & yes there is NO free travel at the pedal.

grassfed · « **Reply #8 on:** December 14, 2011, 10:28:04 am »

Thoughts on the winch. If pto shaft is turning you could have a problem with the control for the winch. The winch control is either a cable to a spool on the winch or a spool with hydro lines to the winch. The winch clutch is engaged by hydro pressure and at the same time the winch brake is disengaged. The pto shaft then drives a ring and pinion and that turns the spool. When you stop pulling, the clutch disengages and the brake engages. If hydro pressure is to low the winch will lock up and not go in or out unless your brake band is loose/worn out. Since you said that you also had a problem with the winch not stopping I am thinking that it could be a sticky spool or slave in the hydro system and your brake band may also be worn or out of adjustment because of this.

inthewoods · « **Reply #9 on:** December 14, 2011, 10:45:41 am »

The control, I think is all hydraulic. This is the first time it has ever kept going when I let off.

grassfed · « **Reply #10 on:** December 14, 2011, 12:42:22 pm »

Quote

As far as the winch... the brake will hold anything, but when pulling the cable in if there's a pretty large load, all of a sudden you've got nothing. Then I can at least then set the brake on the winch, and drive foward dragging my load closer to where I can reel it in.

See this and the part about it not wanting to stop sounds like a control issue...The fact that you say "all of a sudden"...makes me think that there might be play or wear in the control spool and that the hydro to the clutch drops pressure. You should look over the manual I think that you can get one online from JD. you might have an intermittent blockage on the hydro pump (does this winch have a separate pump in the bottom of the winch ? I just looked this up and your winch uses the main system for hydro pressure so it is not the pump. The manual should tell you how to check that the control spool valve. I would check the brake band adjustment and the control spool.

inthewoods · « **Reply #11 on:** December 14, 2011, 01:35:41 pm »

Got a good manual on the way... I'll be able to look into it later today, & will start looking there. Thank you

inthewoods · « **Reply #12 on:** December 14, 2011, 01:41:49 pm »

By the way, this things got about 3500 hrs & I don't think either the clutch or winch have ever been touched.

beenthere · « **Reply #13 on:** December 14, 2011, 03:54:22 pm »

inthewoods
Have you looked at the 440 breakdown of all its parts in jdparts.com?

There you will find the winch and all the nuts, bolts, clutch innards, with their part no.s to look at. Can give a good idea what is or might be involved.

There is a free registration but when there just put 440 in for model no. (no letters) and then select the 440D from the listing of everything Deere made that has the numbers 440 in it. Very handy to look things up, including part no.s and the price. Here is a sample of one page of "clutch and brake cover assembly" for the 440D winch.

inthewoods · « **Reply #14 on:** December 14, 2011, 04:46:15 pm »

I have not been to jdparts.com, thank you & for the diagram.

snowstorm · « **Reply #15 on:** December 14, 2011, 05:21:55 pm »

take the cover off #3 see if the swivel fitting is leaking any oil in there is not good. if there is there could be oil on the clutch disks. should be seval fiber and steel. did adjusting the engine clutch help?? i have seen them last a long long time many years.

inthewoods · « **Reply #16 on:** December 14, 2011, 05:41:45 pm »

I've been in town most of the day & have had you guys available on my phone. -hope to adjust the clutch when I get back in a bit. Now I'm curious what I'll find under that cover too, thanks.
We're about an hour in the woods out of town, so I'll be a bit... But I'll post again later any of my results.

inthewoods · « **Reply #17 on:** December 14, 2011, 09:36:56 pm »

Won't have time to work on the 440 tonight, but I've got a pretty nice hard cover technical manual deere here I'm reading. I'll be on a job early tomorrow, but I'll give you guys an update later on.

inthewoods · « **Reply #18 on:** December 15, 2011, 07:09:40 pm »

Word is the clutch is already adjusted all the way I the direction that I'd like it to go further. Although, there's a set nut below the adjustment yoke that when removed about 5/16" can be gained. I don't know yet if this buys me any more clutch, cause while I was in there I wanted to replace a trans shift linkage pin. Pulled it out and found a crack in the main shift lever at the yoke where the bad pin was. ..wonder if it cracked because of the play due to the bad pin
Now I'm up the hill for dinner & to weld that so I can proceed with the other.

inthewoods · « **Reply #19 on:** December 15, 2011, 07:25:28 pm »

Looks like decent aftermarket prices thru Nortrax on the clutch & related. Was told something about a grease tube that commonly breaks that I should do if I'm in there? think he was talking about for the throw-out berring

snowstorm · « **Reply #20 on:** December 15, 2011, 07:41:56 pm »

you will need a throught out bearing also. piolt bearing is usually ok . with no free travel the bearing turns all the time it wasnt ment to. sometimes the flywheel needs to be resurfaced. dont know if this will work with a D an a or b after taking the nose off it makes a pretty good engine stand. lay it with the grill down

inthewoods · « **Reply #21 on:** December 16, 2011, 11:17:58 pm »

In the winch both springs were off the brake piston, one had broke. Wasn't any oil leaking in there, just a pile of used brake at the bottom.
Engine/drive clutch still slipping, but my shift linkage is fixed.

jocco · « **Reply #22 on:** December 17, 2011, 09:07:04 am »

Time to rip and tear you will find plenty more to fix once you disassemble!!!

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Author Topic: 440D issues (Read 1039 times)