WM pro series sharpener and Cooks sharpener with pics.

[customsawyer]

This is the sharpeners that I use.

Here is the two sharpeners side by side.

 

 

This is the WM sharpener.



 

This is the cooks sharpener.

 

 

This is how I clean the blades.

 

 

 

 

Once the blades are clean I hang them here each side of the post goes to one sharpener. The blades are kept separate since even though I get the profile very close it is not perfect on the cooks sharpener. Thus if I took a blade from the cooks sharpener, then the next time run it on the WM it would put excess wear on certain parts of the CBN wheel.

 

 

This is the setter.

 

 

 

 

This is the band roller.

 

  

[Bibbyman]

Thanks for the pixs…!

I just came in from sharpening and setting 8 blades.   The building is not heated.  It’s below freezing and snow is lightly falling.  I’m done for now and in by the fire!

But,  I have come to the conclusion that one of the keys to a good cutting blade that I’ve sharpened is that the blade needs to be clean.   Not only clean on the body but especially on the teeth.  I have taken great pains to scrape the tarter off the sides of the teeth before setting.  I think it leads to a much more uniform set.

I guess to support this notion that the sides of the teeth need to be clean,  I was setting a tooth and noted that a flake of tarter came off after the striker had pushed the tooth.   I checked the set.  It was .024.  I checked the tooth going the other way and it was .025.  I found some junk on the back side of that tooth so I cleaned it.  I took the little set correction tool and bent a little bit of set out of the two teeth and put the blade back in the setter and stroked it again.   This time the set came out .021 and .022.  The junk buildup had accounted for .003 of false set.  It’d be ok if every tooth had the same thickness of junk but even then you’d not get the set you were expecting.

I noticed how you are wire brushing your blades.  Are you brushing them before or after grinding?

I think what the band blade sharpeners of the world needs is an affordable blade cleaning station.  I’m thinking something like two bicycle tires mounted on a tube frame with some kind of spring tension.  Mount the blade like you would on the mill.  Then there would be one or more motors with brushes to clean the blade.  And maybe a hand crank to move the blade through the brushes.  One time around and it’s clean.

[redbeard]

Great ideas! I was told by the outfit that sharpens mine locally that he will not be resposible for set on dirty blades. That my blades have to be clean on the next go round. . So I will be soaking them in a solvent tank and keeping them clean and free of rust. Something I have neglected in the past.

[customsawyer]

When I first started sharpening I worried about having the blades super clean but the more I sharpen the less I worry unless they are super dirty. I set my blades between .027 and .030 on the .055 blades that I use. The first time I sharpen a new blade I will check the set and it is almost always right at .027 so I rarely set on the first sharpening.
I think that the cleaner blades and the strive for perfection in setting has a lot to do with the thickness of your blades and the size of the engine you have pushing them. I tend to get a lot of forgiveness with the blades I run.

[WH_Conley]

I clean mine by running the mill at cutting speed and turning the water lube wide open and sticking a long handled wire brush against the blade before taking the blade off. Very little junk left on the blade.

[Bibbyman]

We're using .045x1.25 WM DoubleHard blades. Right now using up the 9 degree blades and have 8 left. Going to use only 7 degree from now on.
Setting to. 024+/-.001.

Running on LT40HDE25-RA.

I'm still not getting as good a performance out of my blades as with the re-sharp but I'm using up old blades.

[customsawyer]

We're using .045x1.25 WM DoubleHard blades. Right now using up the 9 degree blades and have 8 left. Going to use only 7 degree from now on.
Setting to. 024+/-.001.

Running on LT40HDE25-RA.

I'm still not getting as good a performance out of my blades as with the re-sharp but I'm using up old blades.

I find that interesting as I get far better results with my sharpening then with resharp.

[barbender]

I just bought a Cook's sharpener while they were on sale. It hasn't arrived yet, but I'm looking forward to it getting here Wednesday or Thursday. I decided on the Cook's sharpener because I want to custom sharpen for others, and the Cook's seemed more versatile. (I learned that from customsawyers comparisons of the two elsewhere). Thanks for the pix.

[bugdust]

Since my sawing does not justify a personal sharpener, I depend on Marty's resharp service in Shade Gap, PA. I have received excellent service and the blades are returned just like new. Regardless, I enjoy reading your posts and find resharpening interesting. I've read several ways you clean blades, just wondering how Wood-Mizer cleans blades in comparison to your process. However they do it they sure shine like new.

[NMFP]

I made a band cleaner out of 2 dewalt 6" bench grinders with wire wheels.  It works well and removes most of the build up and makes rusty bands shine.  I now need to make a device to quickly remove buildup from the gullets other than doing them by hand.  Years ago, we used to use Lye water to clean circular saws.  We could clean any saw that would fit in our parts bath and they all were clean when they came out.  just had to make sure you didnt get the lyw water on you or you would be missing some finger nails at some point. 

[Bibbyman]

Got any pictures of your blade cleaner?

[Banjo picker]

Customsawyer would you tell us what % of your bands you use the Cooks roller on?  Banjo

[Bibbyman]

Do you brush every blade or just the cruddy ones?   

How do you do the inside?  Flip the blade inside out?

Looks like the Cooks grinder is a dry grinder.  Does it just have stone wheel?

What size grinding wheel does the Pro series use?  Our WM CBN grinder uses a 7" wheel.

What profile are you running?

[customsawyer]

Banjo I don't roll a blade until I run into a dive or rise in a blade. I will check the set first and then lay  a utility blade knife on the blade from the bottom of the gullet to the back of the blade and check for a crown or cup underneath the utility blade.

Bibby

1. Just before I take a blade off I run the lubmizer at full force. This makes it to where I clean less than 3% of my blades. The ones I clean usually come from sawing heavy pitch pine.

2. To clean the inside of the blade I just put it up on the band roller and clean it there.

3. The cooks grinder is a dry grinder. I have been told the it is a ceramic wheel but I am not sure of this as it looks like a regular stone wheel to me.  The other side of that, is that I don't know what the difference is.

4. I have not measured the stone on the WM grinder but 7" sounds about right. The main reason I went with the pro series over the shop series that you have is the size of the drive motor and thickness of the blades that I use. I figured that I would need the extra motor strength.

5. I run the 10 degree blade. The mill in Hazelhurst has the edger in line and I usually have hired help so I run the 1 3/4 by .055 by 7/8 to get the max production. On the mill that I do portable work with I never figure I will get it to max production so I just run the 1 1/2" blade.

[bushhog920]

I use a cooks works great. to clean my blades I drop them in my automotive parts washer full of mineral sprits then wipe them with a rag. leaves an oily film on them and they go through the sharpener and setter much better. really recommend useing mineral sprits to clean with.

[cypresskayaksllc]

customsawyer: you must have built that shop before you got a sawmill. All that roofing on the walls instead of B&B.

[WDH]

Jake sharpened some blades for me, and they were the sharpest blades that I have run.  Jake knows how to do things right, with blades, and a lot of other things as well. 

[NMFP]

I do not have any pictures of my machine but it works on the same principle as the 2 bicycle wheels theory. 

I roll bands when they need it.  Typically, the .045 bands need rolled before .055 bands and so do many simonds bands.  purchased a roller from cooks years ago but have also made some electric powered ones as well.  Not difficult at all.

As far as grinders go, I believe cooks and WM are the best, both have pros and cons and it all depends on what you like to use.  If I only sharpened wm bands, I would always use a cbn sharpener but since I do alot of different brands and compositions, I stick to using cooks.  Have 3 grinders online, 2 dual tooth setters and a single tooth setter along with 1 manual band roller and an electric roller. 

I am in the process of designing a sharpener that traces the exact shape of the tooth without any dressing to a wheel except rounding a corner for gullet removal. Also does not need cams for different profile spacings and shapes.   Have built 2 prototypes and working on the 3rd right now which I feel will be completely refined and work great. Can sharpen a 158" band in 8 minutes.

is anyone running a wright sharpener these days?

[bandmiller2]

NMFP,tell us more about the band rollers you made and a picture if possible.What did you use for the convex and concave wheels?? Frank C.

[5quarter]

Customsawyer...Excellent post on your setup! You might recall from another thread that I've been fighting buildup under the teeth for some time. I do as WH_Conley does, which helps, but now that I see how you use the brush wheel, I think that problem will now go away.

[barbender]

Now Frank, that's not right to be asking for pictures when you never post any, is it?  I've always wanted to see pics of your operation.

[customsawyer]

Thanks for all the replies. I am not going to say that I know all there is to know about sharpening but after all the blades I have done I can say that I have learned something.
When you are cleaning with the wire brush on the side grinder be careful that when you are doing the edge away from you, use the left side of the brush and when you do the edge closest to you use the right side of the brush. If you don't it will jerk the blade around and even with gloves it will get your attention if you have a grinder that turns over 10,000 RPM.
When I sharpened the blades for WDH I got a chin check as that was the first time I handled the thinner blades. When I went to coil them I gave them enough flip for a thick blade and that thin one like to have taken my head off.

[bandmiller2]

You got me on that one Bender. Frank C.

[DGK]

Thanks for the pics. I use the WM sharpener non-CBN. It works for me as long as I keep sharpening a batch of blades that are of the same profile so that I don't have to change the set-up much. The tooth setting is an irritant at the time being. I just have the single tooth WM setter. Flipping the blade etc. is a real slow process.  Can see a new dual tooth setter in the future. Anyone using the new WM shop series setter?

[customsawyer]

DGK the regular WM sharpener is not all that much different from the Cooks. It works on the same principle in that they are both profile grinders. 

[terrifictimbersllc]

I have a 2" medium cup brush in my floor standing drill press, pressed against a wooden table with a wooden fence next to the edge of the cup.   I flip all the blades to be cleaned inside out, and pull it under the spinning cup brush (between the bottom of the cup and the wooden table), with the teeth pointed away from the pulling direction.  It takes about 15 seconds to clean the inside of the blade and it gets stuff off the teeth too.  It is very fast and optimal for me.  My blades aren't dirty on the other side.

[barbender]

I have a 2" medium cup brush in my floor standing drill press, pressed against a wooden table with a wooden fence next to the edge of the cup.   I flip all the blades to be cleaned inside out, and pull it under the spinning cup brush (between the bottom of the cup and the wooden table), with the teeth pointed away from the pulling direction.  It takes about 15 seconds to clean the inside of the blade and it gets stuff off the teeth too.  It is very fast and optimal for me.  My blades aren't dirty on the other side.

 
That sounds slick

[Bibbyman]

How many re-sharps can you get from the .055 blades? I found three or four was about it.

Know a guy that ran an LT300. He'd re-sharp one time then pitch them. He didn't want to risk breaking a blade and having to stop to change it out.  Time was worth more than the blade.

[Chuck White]

That would be nice finding someone close by that only sharpened a couple of times, I'd be there with my hand out! 

[Bibbyman]

We've been using up old blades all summer and fall.  I'd probably been far better off just pitching them - time and production wise.

I’m down to about 6 9° blades and then it’s 7°s from now on.  Most all of our remaining blade stock has been re-sharpened the first time and only time by Re-Sharp service.   I’m hoping to get through winter without doing too much sharpening. 

[Peter Drouin]

Thats all I get 3 or 4 sharpens on the .055  7s . but I do leave them on to long 

  

  These are  the WM tools that I use   

[customsawyer]

I can't tell you how many times I sharpen a blade. It varies depending on what I am cutting. If I am cutting cypress there is times when I will cut all day on the same blade. (give or take 10,000bf) These logs are clean and the cypress cuts like butter. If I am cutting my regular logs then I get about 2,500 bf from each blade. If I am cutting the junk logs I am happy to get anything over 100 bf. I guess what I am saying is it all depends. The blades I use on each type of logs I keep separate this way I get the most out of each blade as it is cutting the same thing that it started out on. 
I can hear the eye brows rising in the back ground with the 10,000 bf per  blade but you have to remember that my main product is timbers so there is times that I am cutting 10X12 or 16X20 or even a few 22X22 timbers. These timbers add up. This helps to keep your board foot per blade up. With my regular cutting I am usually going for a 12X12X40 so this helps to keep the bf per blade up also.

[fishpharmer]

Customsawyer,  thanks for starting this very informative topic, good photos.  All the contributers (here) really add value by sharing hard earned experiences,  allowing us readers to make more educated decisions about choosing sharpening equipment.  Thanks to all.

It would be cool if someone could come up with a calculator to determine the level of blade usage/ resharpening that gives the economic "breaking" point justifying purchase of sharpening equipment.  (I may play around with a spreadsheet toward that goal). Lots of variables:cost of new blades, Bdft per blade, $ Bdft, "resharp+shipping " cost, average resharpenings, Actual cost of sharpening equipment.  Level of usage to justify owning resharpening equipment.  Lots of variables.  Any ideas?  Or Bad idea?
Thanks

[Bibbyman]

Wood-Mizer Re-Sharp must have come up with some limit as they reject blades that are too short.

I think your answer would depend greatly if you own your oan equipment and don't count your time and expense vs use a sharpining service.

[Magicman]

and don't count your time 

I could justify resharpening my blades if I considered the resharpening cost alone.  The kicker in my situation is my time.  Sure, I'm "retired" and have plenty of time.  Not.

For me, ReSharp is a bargain, but I have found this thread interesting and informative.  I also followed Bibby's thread with each post that he made.  Thanks to Bibbyman and customsawyer for starting these topics and to all others who have contributed meaningful information and suggestions.  We all learn together.   

[terrifictimbersllc]

Customsawyer,  thanks for starting this very informative topic, good photos.  All the contributers (here) really add value by sharing hard earned experiences,  allowing us readers to make more educated decisions about choosing sharpening equipment.  Thanks to all.

It would be cool if someone could come up with a calculator to determine the level of blade usage/ resharpening that gives the economic "breaking" point justifying purchase of sharpening equipment.  (I may play around with a spreadsheet toward that goal). Lots of variables:cost of new blades, Bdft per blade, $ Bdft, "resharp+shipping " cost, average resharpenings, Actual cost of sharpening equipment.  Level of usage to justify owning resharpening equipment.  Lots of variables.  Any ideas?  Or Bad idea?
Thanks

Here's one way to look at it:  I paid approximately $4500 in order to be able to make about $25 per hour sharpening my own blades.

[Chuck White]

My sharpener cost me $2455.00 delivered.

Figuring sharpening at the rate of $7.00/blade, when I sharpen my 350th blade I will be even, compared with resharp.

Right now, I lack 35 blades and the amortization will be done and my equipment won't owe me a cent!

One of the things to my advantage is that I'm not dependent on an income from my mill, it's just a part-time thing.

[WH_Conley]

I have sharpened over 200 blades til there was nothing left of them. At an average of 5 sharpenings per blade at $6.00 per blade, that would make about 6K. Not counting gas for a 30 miles round trip per batch of blades. On the conservative side, my sharpener has paid for it's self 3 times and more. I sharpen in the evenings in the basement, where it is cool in hot weather and next to the wood stove in cold weather.

[Bibbyman]

I sharpen in the evenings in the basement, where it is cool in hot weather and next to the wood stove in cold weather.

That's my struggle.  Our sharpener is set up in a cold shed.  Gowd-awful hot 6 months of the year and cold 4 months of the year.  When it’s nice,  I can always find something more productive to do.

[WH_Conley]

That is the reason mine is in the basement. Tried the shed. Next thing I knew I had a whole pile of dull blades and no sharp ones.

[customsawyer]

The trouble I have is that I hate to work inside so I tend to put it off till I have to.

[bandmiller2]

Its just plain handy to sharpen your own,no need for a large band inventory.I usally cut a half day, many times I will use one band until its worn out taking it off when I go home to lunch to sharpen.I have a couple of millers I sharpen bands for,my cats claw is pretty much paid for. Frank C.

[Bibbyman]

 

 

When I set out to sharpen, I put my white hasmat jumper on and set in for most of the day. 

I had the sharpener and setter set up for 1-1/2” blades for a month or so using up some 20 old 1-1/2” blades.  I got to where I’d take the couple I used that day and take them to the sharpener and fire it up.  I put one on and then go do something like fuel up the Terex.  Then come back and check on the sharpener.  Maybe set that blade while another was running.  If I had time, run off and charge the deck for the next day and so on until I had the day’s dull blades back in service.  I was down to two blades for about a week.  If I had the sharpener set up within a few steps of the mill,  I could sharpen as I go.  But it’s in a shed about half way from between the sawmill and the house.

Customsawyer,  does the Pro Series keep the spray and drip of the oil pretty much inside the machine?  The CBN sharpen tends to produce a mist of oil and smoke (if grinding too hard) and oil drips off the blade after it exits the sharpener.  In short, it’s a mess.

[customsawyer]

Bibby I don't think it sprays all that much. The only oil that I get off of it is the dripping off of the blade. I keep a large pan under the arm that supports the blade. I think that the hood keeps the mist and spray down. It is a bit messy and I don't like having to clean the grindings out of the oil and have been studying on a few different ways to eliminate that part of the job. I do like the thought of grinding with oil versus dry but don't like the mess.

[Bibbyman]

 

  

This is my oil cleaning system except the heater goes under the metal pan.  When it gets below 45°,  I plug in the oil pan heater and warm the oil.  Once it gets flowing,  I can unplug the heater and the grinding and pumping will keep it warm enough.



 

Here is the first model with plastic pan. Except the pump goes in the lower pan.

As the oil falls off the grinder in the top dry aluminum pan,  the slag tends to fall out and collect. I clean this out every month or so. 

The oil then falls over the yellow plastic parts dish with magnets under the dish and the slag collects on it.  I remove the dish about every 10 blades and scrape off the slag into a bucket.

The pump sets in a little box with a pair of magnets that I put in baggies.  About every 50 blades I pull the bags and pull the magnets out of them and put them in new bags.

I’ve not cleaned out the steel pan yet.

[red pine]

Customsawyer, I may have missed the name of your setter in the messages. I am looking for either a 1 or 2 tooth setter and 2 tooth seems yours. Two seems to be preferred due to time saving although I use my mill only part time. Is it Cooks?
Regarding blade cleaning I use "oven cleaner" on my carpentry woodshop blades if they get gunk/tar on them and it works great. Have not tried on bands. Has anyone?

[customsawyer]

Red Pine I have a Cooks dual tooth setter. I don't think the oven cleaner would work in my application due to the cost and the number of blades that I use.

Bibby I was thinking about putting the pump in the bottom of a 5 gal bucket. Just have the oil drain back into the bucket through a cloth diaper or some cheese cloth. Then when the cloth gets full all you would have to do is through it away. I have tried the magnets and such but it is still messy. 

[WH_Conley]

How about putting the pump about half way in the bucket? There will always be some fines get through, that would give them a place to settle to without getting picked up by the pump.

[JFarmer]

I bought a cooks sharpener about 4 years ago and it has for sure paid for itself. I have saved a bundle of money over the resharp because I dont have to pay the resharp service plus fuel of taking them there and going back after them.

[Lee L]

I just got a Cooks sharpener and duel setter and built a roller.  After years of making do with makeshift setups being able to sharpen to any specs I need is wonderful.  I have to now agree that resharp(done the right way) is better than new.

[Chuck White]

I keep 6 blades in rotation in my blade box.

I put the box in the truck whenever I go to saw lumber and all 6 blades are sharp to begin the day.

I keep track of my resharps by marking each blade, near the weld with a small engraver that I keep on my sharpening bench!  I do the 4 lines vertical, then a diagonal line across them to indicate 5 resharps.

Right now 4 of the 6 blades are marked 7 and 2 are marked 6.

[nas]

Do you guys set before or after you sharpen?  I set before but the WM manual says to do it after and then you have to deburr the blade before you set it.  Any thoughts?

Nick

[bugdust]

How many re-sharps can you get from the .055 blades? I found three or four was about it.

Know a guy that ran an LT300. He'd re-sharp one time then pitch them. He didn't want to risk breaking a blade and having to stop to change it out.  Time was worth more than the blade.

Bibby, I delivered a load to a customer a few weeks back and he pointed out where a sawyer set up to saw for his neighbor last summer. He said the sawyer left a pile of used blades. He said the guy would toss the blade when dull. He told the neighbor it wasn't worth the hassle to resharp, he just bought new ones. This is a guy with more money than good sense.

[Bibbyman]

A neighbor bought a third hand WM LT40 with sharpener and setter. It came with several hundred once used blades. Neither of the first two owners sharpened the blades even though they had the equipment.

Go figure.

[customsawyer]

nas I set after I sharpen and I don't worry about the burr. With the cooks sharpener if you zero out the dial indicators with the burr on and then add your amount of set with the burr on then your set should be the same on both sides. I know there is going to be some that disagree with me but it works on my set up.

[Chuck White]

I SET before sharpening, that way I don't have to mess with the burr on the back side of the blade!

I've never seen any ill effects from doing it this way!

But I guess it's each to their own.

[Bibbyman]

I tried setting before but found setting after worked better for me. Seems the blade ran through the WM dual tooth setter likes the blade with oil on it.

Like WM ReSharp would work best, they do a heavy grind, then deburr and flatten some of the set out, then set, then do a final light grind.