Marking timber

[Phorester]

I had a client, now dead, that in his 80's ask me to mark and sell his timber lands.  He had been a buyer and seller in timber and land all  his life.  The sort of guy that that played his cards close to his vest.

The first of some 8 tracts that we marked was a very good stand of southern yellow pine.  I took the proposed bid sheet to him and told him we expected a bid of $235,000 or better.  He said "No, there ain't that much timber on that tract, I been buying and selling timber all my life, and there just ain't that much there".  The tract sold for over $250,000 taking advantage of a rising timber market and strong competition.

Of the eight tracts, the first three received the same response when I presented the proposal and estimated value to him.  After that, he never questioned the sales.  I can only believe that after that third one, he saw how he may have been taken advantage of for prices all his life.

A second story.  Marked and prepared a bid for a local guy.  When presented to him, he said "No, no bids, sell it to so and so brothers.  I have worked with their family, and them with mine, all their lives, sell it to them."  After a week long argument, I sold it to the "friends".  They cut and paid for Number One logs only, every thing else went to pulp.  The finale payment was less than my estimate, by a bunch.  The client was unhappy, and I reminded him that it was his choice, not mine.  We went to binding arbitration.  I presented my case, the brothers presented theirs, and the client his.  The brothers walked away, I walked away, and the client was pithed beyond reason when the verdict was that the client did it to himself. 

The timber market needs a leveler for the clients benefit, and an out and out sale of timber with no volumes, no tree tally, no controls, is asking for what you get.

Most land owners have no concept of volume or value, the loggers do, shaving 10% or more off the stumpage adds up, and not the advantage of the land owner.

I tell the locals, mostly cattlemen, do you sell your cows by telling the buyer go out and get 100 head and pay me what you think they are worth?  Uniformly the answer is "No, are  you crazy?"  Yet timber they sell that way.

Do what you want with your timber, give it away, sell it, or let the professionals help you.  You'll get what you deserve.

DON, A very good, "true life" assessment of just what government service foresters and consulting foresters who work for landowners are up against with timber sales with private landowners. Very difficult for some landowners who sell their timber their own way, or sell it like their Daddy and/or Grandaddy did, to realize there is a better way to do it both for putting more money in their pocketbook and increasing the future commercial value of their woods.

I've repeated this before; in my area, for his 5% to 15% commission,  a good consulting forester will get a landowner 200% to 300% more for his timber than a landowner trying to sell it himself. And will get the landowner a better logging job.

[SwampDonkey]

I guess when it boils down to it, it's pretty much the same attitudes all over the continent. A few want assistance, most don't.

[Texas Ranger]

Phorester, I have shown bid results from previous sales to clients to show them the range of prices, and the buyers.  I was amazed to find some that ignored the difference, and the low end buyers.

Some folks are blind to some one who can help them.

[Phorester]

Agree Don.
These posts by me in this thread are the frustration coming from yet another situation in the last few weeks where the landowner has repeatedly asked me for timber sale advice and has repeatedly ignored it.

I feel he's only getting about 25% of the value of his timber.  Dealing directly with only the first buyer who contacted him. He's never sold timber before, just doesn't know what he's doing.  Not even getting more bids himself, much less hiring a consultant to handle the sale for him. As you said... getting what he deserves, unfortunately. The next timber sale on this property will suffer from this timber sale, rather than benefit from it as it can and should.

[Texas Ranger]

yup

[Brian Beauchamp]

Marking timber is a balancing act of merchantability and objectives. Ultimately, it is the buyer's responsibility to confirm the sale volume, products, and quality. If you want those trees in marginal locations, having a crew that can climb, bring the top down carefully to prevent damage to surrounding structures, and roping the bole to fell the tree where you want it to go is a valuable asset. It isn't always practical to do so with the time involved versus the value of the tree and in some cases may be illegal to do (many states have laws about working near electric transmission and distribution lines, other utilities). If a forester is marking marginal timber you don't have the ability to effectively harvest, you can either remember this for the next time you bid on a sale from that forester and thoroughly evaluate the timber marked, or refuse to bid at all.

[Brian Beauchamp]

Don't you just love that? What's worse is having a landowner pay you for advice, then getting the word-of-mouth rap for things going south because he ignored your advice. The worst clients are the ones who know it all already. You're better off.

Agree Don.
These posts by me in this thread are the frustration coming from yet another situation in the last few weeks where the landowner has repeatedly asked me for timber sale advice and has repeatedly ignored it.

I feel he's only getting about 25% of the value of his timber.  Dealing directly with only the first buyer who contacted him. He's never sold timber before, just doesn't know what he's doing.  Not even getting more bids himself, much less hiring a consultant to handle the sale for him. As you said... getting what he deserves, unfortunately. The next timber sale on this property will suffer from this timber sale, rather than benefit from it as it can and should.