Get your Forestry Forum Hats while they last!
0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
I agree that there is a skill to timber marking just as there is to falling trees. Some loggers can fall the more difficult trees with little effort and others can't. We usually mark the trees to be cut with a painted ring around the tree at breast height and a painted stump mark, so we are looking around the entire tree and at the tops since we also cruise the topwood. The marked trees are to be removed.We mark as though we have to fall the trees and consider what damages might result to other trees,regeneration, etc. affected by the falling. Landowners often want us to cut difficult trees around their buildings, roads, powerlines etc. If there are any risks involved we do not mark such trees and refer them to the tree service people, power company, county road commission etc. who are equiped to handle such trees and any resulting damages.Leaners and hazard trees in the general forest areas being logged are usually fallen by our "experienced" loggers without any problem. We work as partners with our loggers and if they should have a problem with falling any particular tree that we have marked, they are to bring it to our attention and we "work it out" so that it can be safely fallen. They just don't go off on their own picking and choosing which trees that they can easily fall. They are responsible for cutting the marked trees as specified in their timber harvest contract as marked by the forester.If a logger determines that they can not fall the trees as marked, they should discuss it with the forester before they purchase the sale.
You make some good points. Marking is a real skill.
The alternative of not using a forester is leaving the harvest to the tender mercies of a logger.
I'd say the trees are marked that need to come down for the management plan, whatever that is. Up to the faller to get the tree out, not up to the forester to avoid marking a difficult tree.And to use your words "Loggers do it best in the woods". :)
Did you bid on this timber or just cut it for the mill that bought it?
Poor attitude about what?
And they mark alot of poor health trees foresters call them cull trees I call them junk !
Strong pulp markets help to. If you can't sell the junk, then anyone, no matter who, looses money cutting it, even the landowner.
My job as a forester is to come up with a management plan for the timber that meets the landowners future objectives. So if that means improving the stands health by removing cull trees then so be it. My job isn't to make sure some logger is happy with the timber and the paycheck that he gets. I generally work for the land owner not the logger. If the logger doesn't like the trees marked then don't bid on the sale.
But if those markets don't exist then allowing profits to drive your management decisions isn't usually what is best for the forest and its future.
Who is going to cut wood of no value? Your going to cut what you can sell if your doing the work, that means there has to be value and an expectation of profit. The wood has to pay for the activity, unless a subsidy is involved and that's another matter. The way I see it, and I don't see how anyone else wouldn't, is the value of some of marketable trees had better offset the "no value" or "low value" tree harvest/take downs. And that takes some real planning as well as some real faith in the management plan and also knowledge about costs involved accessing that timber.
And maybe instead of marking the timber as if it was all marketable and running up/padding profit figures for the sake of a management job that can't realize the revenues, then maybe there should be a little more honesty about the expectations.
I had a client, now dead, that in his 80's ask me to mark and sell his timber lands. He had been a buyer and seller in timber and land all his life. The sort of guy that that played his cards close to his vest.The first of some 8 tracts that we marked was a very good stand of southern yellow pine. I took the proposed bid sheet to him and told him we expected a bid of $235,000 or better. He said "No, there ain't that much timber on that tract, I been buying and selling timber all my life, and there just ain't that much there". The tract sold for over $250,000 taking advantage of a rising timber market and strong competition.Of the eight tracts, the first three received the same response when I presented the proposal and estimated value to him. After that, he never questioned the sales. I can only believe that after that third one, he saw how he may have been taken advantage of for prices all his life.A second story. Marked and prepared a bid for a local guy. When presented to him, he said "No, no bids, sell it to so and so brothers. I have worked with their family, and them with mine, all their lives, sell it to them." After a week long argument, I sold it to the "friends". They cut and paid for Number One logs only, every thing else went to pulp. The finale payment was less than my estimate, by a bunch. The client was unhappy, and I reminded him that it was his choice, not mine. We went to binding arbitration. I presented my case, the brothers presented theirs, and the client his. The brothers walked away, I walked away, and the client was pithed beyond reason when the verdict was that the client did it to himself. The timber market needs a leveler for the clients benefit, and an out and out sale of timber with no volumes, no tree tally, no controls, is asking for what you get.Most land owners have no concept of volume or value, the loggers do, shaving 10% or more off the stumpage adds up, and not the advantage of the land owner. I tell the locals, mostly cattlemen, do you sell your cows by telling the buyer go out and get 100 head and pay me what you think they are worth? Uniformly the answer is "No, are you crazy?" Yet timber they sell that way.Do what you want with your timber, give it away, sell it, or let the professionals help you. You'll get what you deserve.
Agree Don. These posts by me in this thread are the frustration coming from yet another situation in the last few weeks where the landowner has repeatedly asked me for timber sale advice and has repeatedly ignored it. I feel he's only getting about 25% of the value of his timber. Dealing directly with only the first buyer who contacted him. He's never sold timber before, just doesn't know what he's doing. Not even getting more bids himself, much less hiring a consultant to handle the sale for him. As you said... getting what he deserves, unfortunately. The next timber sale on this property will suffer from this timber sale, rather than benefit from it as it can and should.
Testing New Bottom Sponsor Area
