01 Frick questions

[NMFP]

Hello Everyone:

Just purchased an 01 Frick wooden mill and wondered if anyone had any drawings or paperwork on installation and so forth?  I didnt know if there was ever any kind of paper work that came with these mills years ago or not but thought I would check.  Looking for some thoughts on building the tracks and so forth.  The wood on this mill is rough but in ok shape, going to replace all of the wood and clean, paint and lubricate all of the metal parts as well.
Thanks so much in advance.  Everyone here on the forum has been very helpful with everything I have ever asked questions about.

NMFP

[Ron Wenrich]

Lunstrum wrote the book on mill installation and operation.  http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/circsaw.pdf
Its good to look things over before you do an installation, as it answers many questions, and probably causes a few more.

I don't know of any specific booklets on Frick.  http://fricksawmills.com/  is your source for parts, as they bought the rights to Frick mills. 

I've seen lots of mill installations.  I've worked on handmills as well as automatics.  All of them have started at different angles to get to the same type of operation.  Start with a good foundation, and the rest is pretty easy.  You need a stable base and be able to tie it into the husk. 

[SCSawyer]

Congrats, I just sold my old 0 frick mill,  sure will miss it, just search the internet theres no shortage of frick info out there. Good luck

[Don_Papenburg]

I think it is Nation Builders books that I got my books onFrick sawmills One shows the layouts the other has parts and descriptions.

[Woodchuck53]

Morning. If the mill is intact where it is then pictures, pictures and a few more pictures. Measure everything to scale and transfer all to a large working sheet that you can have copies run off. Put a couple on the dash of the truck and leave them there. The one us use will surely get blown around and smudged. Z

I had used my mill as is for years and when I moved it to my place I took an old man's advice and am now passing it on to you. (Not that i am old or anything)

The rebuild is slow due to funds and other pressing matters like living so don't get in a rush. Paint everything and finish all mods before you mix welding with future sawdust of course. Enjoy the task and you will know everything you will need about your mill by doing this. And yes this is a great source for advice some even wanted. And we like pictures of (How I did it) We can all learn something. Have a great one, Chuck

[NMFP]

Thanks everyone!!  Evereyone has been extremely helpful with my questions and thoughts.  I always wanted to get back into sawing with a circular mill again and I think that is finally going to happen again.  I will be posting pictures as the progress happens but probably wont be much until spring.

Thanks for all the help.

NMFP

[bandmiller2]

NMFP,somewhere on the net I've seen the factory plans for set up, tried to find them now and can't,they were on one of the old machinery forums.The two most important measurements are the elevation between the top of the knees and the arbor loose collar and the distance between the end of the knees and the saw.The distance from the end of the knees to the saw determins last board thickness.If you want to have a 1" last board clearance must be less than an inch to support the bottom of the board,I usally do between 5/8 to 3/4".the end of the knee must be high enough to clear the loose collar and arbor nut.Depeding on the mill and the courage of the sawyer many leave a 2" last board,thats your call.Frank C.

[Ron Wenrich]

You might also want to consider the distance of the dogs from the headblocks.  Sometimes they stick out over the end of the knees.  I've clipped the ends of dogs that stick out a might bit too far.  Mill alterations and wear could make a difference from mill to mill.

[NMFP]

Frank & Ron:

Thank you for the advice.  These little things are what will make the process go better.  By the way, do you know if the old Frick wooden frame mills were sold as plans or were they sold as complete units you installed yourself?  I see many that are similar but yet, all have different configurations like they were modified at one point.
Also, does anyone know what size carriage was originally supposed to be on an 01 frick wooden husk mill?  the one I have was extended to 18-19'.  i was thinking of shortening it to make my mill more compact because if I need to say long material, I always have my band mill available for that.
Thanks guys and your help is appreciated.
Erich

[bandmiller2]

Erich,I'd say most were sold with the wood complete,I have herd of mills for export that just had the metal parts to save freight.Local mill builders used southern yellow pine for its stability.I would say 16' is probibly the standard carriage legnth although in those days special orders didn't upset them.My carriage is 14' and its excepted to let logs overhang a couple of feet,so 18' is reasonable.If you have the room and the carriage track leave it long,nice to have the ability to cut long. Frank C.

[Ron Wenrich]

Most came with the wood installed.  I've seen some where the paint was still on the wood, and the carriage and track wood matched.  Looked to be factory.

I know one guy that actually put two carriages together to saw barn beams.  He sawed up to 40'.  There isn't any advantage to shortening the carriage.  A lot depends on how many headblocks you have.  For a carriage that length, you should have at least 4. 

Our first mill was one that someone rewooded. He used Doug fir.  Most any type of harder softwood will work, but you want it to be dry. 

[NMFP]

Ron:
This one has 3 head blocks so I am wondering what the optimal length carriage would be for this set up.  I was thinking the distance between the 1st and 2nd should be 6' and then the distance between the 2nd and 3rd should be 8' but what are your thoughts?  I would like to make everything as correct as possible during the rebuild process.
Thanks, NMFP

[Dave_]

Erich, watch Ebay.  Frick manuals show up from time to time.  In fact, there is a Frick 100th Anniversary Company History reprint on there right now.

[Dave_]

In C.H. Wendel's book on sawmills, he shows a Frick O1 from a 1915 company catalog that came with a 25 ft. carriage and 65 ft ways.   

[Frickman]

I'm currently running a steel Frick 01 I rebuilt from the ground up. I've run and been around Frick and Farquar mills all my life. Lunstrum's book and some common sense are all you need to install and run a Frick, there's not much to them. Just keep everything square, level, plumb and solid, set your lead, and go to work.

Most of the wood mills were sold complete, ready to run. Alot were rewooded over the years with whatever someone had on hand. I don't care too much for the wood mills, as ambient humidity seems to affect their accuracy somewhat. They're not as durable either. Most were sold on price though, they were significantly cheaper than steel mills. They're OK, I've owned and run them. I just prefer steel.

As far as carriage length goes, I've seen everything from ten footers to thirty footers. The longer ones are made of several shorter ones bolted together. My twenty footer is two tens bolted together. Longer is better in carriages. A longer carriage, with more sets of trucks on the track, helps to even out any variations in the track. Basically, it helps you saw straighter. As a rule of thumb the track is usually three times the length of the carriage. You can extend the track, and run a longer carriage, as long as you have enough grooves in your main carriage cable drive sheave to accomodate the extra travel. Shortening a mill, as you want to do, is pretty easy. Lengthening it can be a problem however.

[Ron Wenrich]

Ron:
This one has 3 head blocks so I am wondering what the optimal length carriage would be for this set up.  I was thinking the distance between the 1st and 2nd should be 6' and then the distance between the 2nd and 3rd should be 8' but what are your thoughts?  I would like to make everything as correct as possible during the rebuild process.
Thanks, NMFP

You could always add a headblock.  I have a 16' carriage and have 4 headblocks.  Mine is setup with 6' ion the center 2 headblocks, and the front and back headblocks are another 4'.  You don't want a log to hang out too far beyond the headblocks, as the logs will have a tendency to spring.  With your setup, you would saw 8' logs on the front headblocks, 10' & 12' on the back headblocks, and 14'+ on all three. 

[Sprucegum]

My headblocks are 8' apart - too far - I get a lot of bounce in a small cant. Some day I will rebuild and go with 6'.

[NMFP]

I am thinking about locating a 4th headblock to install on the carriage to help out with longer logs.  As far as species go for building the carriage and husk, I know many people have used southern pine and white oak but is there another prefered species to use as an alternative?  I have white oak logs available but drying it will take time.  Any suggestions there for alternatives?

[york]

Hi,
i would be thinking about steel and how long is your "set shaft?"

Yes,four head-blocks is the way to go......bert

[Ron Wenrich]

Anything that is dry.  I've used Doug fir.  It might be worthwhile to find someone that has reclaimed timbers.  Maybe some old barn beams that you could resaw.  But, I'd stay away from the lighter species like white pine. 

[NMFP]

Thanks Ron!  Greatly appreciate the help.

York, i do not know how long the set shaft is because of not having the mill to my place until spring.  I have thought about steel.  My thought is to build the foundation out of wood, the carriage out of wood but then install the husk as steel.  Eventually I would change the carriage to steel as well as the ways. 

My foundation I am thinking will be of pressure treated 6x6 every 4', then 2x8 stringers each side with cross bracing followed by 2x8 hardwood for the base of the ways where I can mount the grooved and flat track.  Very similar to the way that Lunstrum shows in the diagram in the book.

[bandmiller2]

Erich,if you google steam&engines of australia and go to page 8 there are plans for a oo frick mill,yours is an 01 but the plans will give you a good start.If you also google frick sawmill plans theirs anouther site that gives the dimentions of the parts of different sized fricks.Frank C.

[york]

NMFP,
You,have a good project going there-take your time-i bought a meadows mill new,was all wood and on the outer corners of the main rails of the carriage they had let in angle iron to give head blocks more bearing surface-turning logs gives them a good pounding...
    I also,have seen,set shaft`s made longer by using a coupling,in other word`s you could make your carriage,a little longer-just my two cents,bert

[bandmiller2]

There are two common systems to mount headblocks on a carriage,the headblock knee assembly like the Frick and the set beam like the Chase and Lane.Set beam is easy to add to just line em up and bolt to the beam.The problem with the headblock knee is getting the gear on the set shaft to move to a new location.I don;t know for sure as I've never worked on one but probibly the gear key is tapered and must be driven out one way.Sand the shaft smooth and lube before an attempted move.Frank C.

[NMFP]

York:
I know the carriage was originally 15' but the previous owner had lengthened it to 18' but still only had 3 head blocks.  I am thinking baout adding the 4th just to make it more versatile but also to help with log movement.  One interesting thing about the carriage and set works on this mill is that it has 2 set levers and 2 sprockets on the set shaft.  I understand how the one is supposed to work but the other one, I will need to investigate when I move the mill in the spring.  I have never sawn or seen a mill that had 2 set levers.  Is this something that anyone else has ever seen or has?  I unfortunately do not have a good picture of it that you can easily see the levers though.

I think I will definately need a good supply of PB blaster for the dissassembly.

Thanks to evreryone,
Erich

[york]

Erich,your saying only one set-works but with two levers?Almost time to get your camera going...Friends of mine rebuilt a 00frick and they ended buying an extra mill in order to rebuild the best mill...bert

[beenthere]

......................
I think I will definately need a good supply of PB blaster for the dissassembly.
..................

Your best friend would be some Blue Creeper. It will work better and use a lot less. 

Click on the LogRite sponsor in left column.

[Ron Wenrich]

Ones for forward, ones for reverse.  It sounds like an old setworks system.  Pre WWII.  I remember a friend of mine had a couple of new setworks from back in the 1920s.  They were Frick, and they had a place for someone to sit.  The sawyer fed the log into the saw, and they had a guy who sat on the carriage and set the carriage and dogs.  I believe that one had 2 handles, if I recall.

The newer ones had one handle that you turned to the left or right to activate the forward pawl or the reverse pawl.  Later they got into power receders, which put the setworks in neutral and you could put the headblocks front or back depending on which way the carriage was running.

[NMFP]

I am going to try to take pictures of it over christmas and then post them here for you to see.  The one setworks works the way I know they should but then the other one, does not have anything to reverse the direction.  Only move it forward.  It doesnt have teeth that go the opposite direction.

Another question I was thinking of today was, there is a setworks scale on the carriage now but it is rather crude and not very user friendly.  Has anyone made another version of a setworks scale that will work easily and is easy to set up?  I am used to the edminstons circular dial along with a verticle type from a Lane.  Any thoughts are appreciated so I can think about how I could make something thats easy to read.

Thanks Ron for the help and will post pictures as i get them available.

[Ron Wenrich]

We had one that was a yardstick on a board.  Attach a small cable to the headblock and a few pulleys, then put a bar over top the board to give an indication what the distance is from headblock to saw.  You need to put something to keep the bar steady, so it doesn't move side to side.  A slotted board works.  Put the bar in the slots.

A lot of those Fricks used to have a gauge that was on the headblock. 

[NMFP]

Yes, this one has each headblock marked with a ruler and a pointer.  I think that would be rather difficult to see as you were sawing.  I guess as long as the setworks has the starting point attached to the back of the headblocks, the shape of the setworks read out wouldnt matter as long as its accurate.

Thanks and greatly appreciate the help, especially Ron with all of his experience and knowledge.

[bandmiller2]

You don't need to read the yardstick and pointer every board.Your setworks quadrant should have a number of holes for a pin just pull it over to the stop and whatever thickness you chose.The scale is handy when you make your last slab cut so the last board will come out right.I keep a clip board at my station to figure number of boards plus kerf. Frank C.

[NMFP]

What are your thoughts on building the ways?  My thought was to use pressure treated 6x6 posts, in the ground 4-5' with 2x6 or 2x8 stringers bolted to each side of the posts.  I would then use pressure treated 4x4's for the cross ways like a rail road track and then use 4x6 pressure treated for the ways where I would then attach the steel track.  My plan was to kiln dry the pressure treated lumber so that I could minimize the dimensional changes after the assembly.

Any thoughts other than it will be expensive but my thought is that if I spend the money now, It will last me the rest of my life.

Thanks,
NMFP

[york]

On my setup,each section of trackway was 15' long-was made out of all 4by4 SYP treated the cross pieces were morticed into the side pieces-they had ready rod going side of each cross piece-then topped with 8# track-i had the piers 5ft on center-you need a way to adjust for up and down and side to side...If i was to do it again,it would be on concrete,had trouble with movement-the wood trackway was ok.....bert

[NMFP]

York:

Do you still have your mill?  If so, could I possibly come and look at your set up and take any recomendations that you can offer?  I want to be able to make adjustments as necessary however, I dont want to have to constantly align things.  I would prefer to have more time sawing instead of maintenance if possible.

Thanks and I greatly appreciate your comments and suggestions.

NMFP

[york]

No,sold the mill about 15 yrs ago,to a guy who works for Wagner lumber and he set it up on concrete,then later went to steel for the carriage,i now have a bandmill.bert

[NMFP]

Thanks York.    I have been around mills my entire life and everytime I visit another one, I seem to find something a little different or something that I hadent thought of before.  I guess we are never to old to learn something new or a little different than what we are used to.

[bandmiller2]

NMFP,I lucked out when I was setting up my Chase mill.The power co. replaced the cross arms on the high tension lines and left them in a big pile.Some of the best Douglas fir I've seen,trued them up on a mizer LT-70 they are 4x8"and stained them with cabots deck stain.I set sections of phone poles about 4' in the ground notched the top for a 4x6" cross piece bolted, and the way timbers set on top.Around the husk and on the log turning end posts 4' offbearers end 6' apart. Frank C.

[Ron Wenrich]

There sure seems to be a lot of old trailers sitting around.  Get that floor on a stable foundation and it won't go out of line for you.  Here's one over in Centre county.

 

To get the sun off of it, he did this:
 



01 Frick.  It was done like this to take it to another location.  The track was put on metal.  My track is on metal 4x8 tubing.  Most of the metal tracks I've seen have been put on 4x4 tube.  I believe you could also do it on I beams.  Do it in sections.  I had a wooden track that was done in 10' sections.  Metal can be done just the same.  That way you can make some adjustment, if necessary.  Also, the track is easier to move or replace if you have to.

[york]

What Ron just posted,is a good idea-looked at a 00Frick on a trailer,in pa,years ago,had no way to move it,so passed on it...
    Set up on a solid deck,eliminates one of the circle mill problems,reciprocating weight,the carriage,with a big log moving back and forth,each line,really is though on wood piers...bert

[bandmiller2]

Before I set up my first circular mill I did alot of mill bumming that is traveling to different mills and watching.I learned what to do and what not to do.Sawyers are inovative rascals and have some clever lashups.I incorperated the best ideas in my mill.Flow of material and comfy working hight are right at the top of the list. Frank C.