Hand cutting vs harvesters

[snowstorm]

lets say you have 4 cable skidders and you need 4 men to run them cut there own hitichs. could you hire 4 guys within a weeks time? around here not likely 25 yrs ago yes

[SwampDonkey]

Around here you would have a hard time finding an operator for those heavy machines if your working on crown. They have to take a training course to run them or they would not be allowed on crown land cutting. They would also be required to have first aid and WHIMIS. You couldn't just go pick up Joe Blow's son down the road. Skidder guys, I can find a few of them around. Some of them might want to be just the skidder driver, but I can find them. None of them would live in my community though. It was that way 25 years ago to. I know most everyone here and none of them have cut much wood other than split firewood for the stove. It would not be hard to find someone that had first aid, but it likely would not be up to date recently.

[mahonda]

The lack of experienced or even willing workers has been a huge cause for the mechanization from my experiences logging here. Its hard to find anyone willing to show up and work hard all day, especially when we have to sneak up on those trees before light. I think the small guys can compete in their niche markets just due to low over head and mobilization costs.

[LoggerBlack79]

Y

Were you producing for Jaroche's LoggerBlack79    Or the now defunct Goddard mill 

I actually worked for a guy who produced for The Jaroches. A guy by the name of Herb Helsel. Good man. I would have to say, Working on Jaroche jobs was a great learning experience for me. The job always looked really nice when we were done. Are you from the wolverine area?

[LoggerBlack79]

The lack of experienced or even willing workers has been a huge cause for the mechanization from my experiences logging here. Its hard to find anyone willing to show up and work hard all day, especially when we have to sneak up on those trees before light. I think the small guys can compete in their niche markets just due to low over head and mobilization costs.

This has been a problem on almost every logging job I've been on. There aren't enough guys willing to actually work for a living. I think the the work ethic of today's generation has taken a serious dive. It's too bad, they don't know what they're missing. I have to say, almost nothing beats the rush I get when those veneer maples crash on the ground!!!

[Corley5]

Are you from the wolverine area?

Yup 

[smwwoody]

Work ethic...  What is that?  20 years ago when I was cutting by hand I han no trouble keeping 2 cable skidders busy.  Now that my 20 year old son is cutting he can't keep me busy with one cable skidder I had to hire him a helper. Now when the Fat Old Man gets off the skidder and cuts the kid can't keep up running skidder. Don't get me wrong he is a good worker but it surer isn't like it was. And in all fairness we don't have the timber like we Did then.

Woody 

[SwampDonkey]

That's the thing woody, the piece size has dropped a lot in 30 years. That is one of the number one things when your cutting by hand. A lot of the big mills these days won't take big wood even if you had it. Even aspen pulp, we had some mills here that couldn't take 26 inch aspen and one mill you needed a special over size ticket, to control the volume of the big stuff coming in. I've seen a lot of aspen almost as big as white pine come off the Tobique valley. In fact in some of the stands from fire origin, all that stood was pine and aspen, the fir all died and fell down from old age. And the white birch was dying because the death of the fir opened up the woods too much. Much safer in a machine in that mess. There had been a restart on the fir, but it was suppressed for too long and most of the advanced fir was junk with rot. I saw some of it being thinned, PCT with brush saw, after the remaining residual overstory was cut and it should have been burnt. Junk today will be junk tomorrow.

[Knute]

I would think soil compaction could be a factor to consider with the heavy machines unless used on frozen ground.

[chevytaHOE5674]

I would think soil compaction could be a factor to consider with the heavy machines unless used on frozen ground.

Except that most of the larger equipment is either tracked or 3 and 4 axle rubber tired with large float tires and even tracks over the tires. This allows the large machines to be light on their feet in the woods. I've seen fully loaded double bunk forwarders with tracks front and rear drive on top of snow that a skidder would be plowing through. 

[SwampDonkey]

I see lots of machine ruts from those machines, but on wetter ground. The forest companies seem to be getting away with cutting wetter and wetter ground on crown lands. Then they want that wet stuff thinned after. Ruts and mud sespools to sink to your knees in. 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Well on wet soils just about any machine will have rutting. Got to save the wet jobs for winter work when there is good snow cover and frozen ground.

[SwampDonkey]

My ground was skidder harvested and it's not rutted. It's flat land to, mostly winter cut. But then there are lots cut during the wet weather and it will be rutted for sure. When you have a forwarder with several tons of wood on it, it leaves it's mark. On good hardwood ground a skidder won't rut, not a bit. If you run a machine up a wet gully or seepage area, yeah it will rut.

[logloper]

Whats the difference in a harvester and a feller buncher with a processor head?

[amberwood]

FB with a processor head is a harvester. Normally the feller boom set is a different configuration with a shorter reach and higher lift, verses a long reach on a dedicated harvester. Harvester head is normally dangle, Feller fixed, or with a wrist.
DTR