Author Topic: First post here, very impressed with the information found here (Read 819 times)

jimdad07 · « **on:** November 25, 2011, 10:23:40 am »

Hi guys. My name is Jim and I wanted to say high. I am researching information on timber framing as I am planning on timber framing a new wood shop over the course of winter and spring. The building is going to be 18' x 24' with an attic. Using poplar logs as that is what I have, dropped two huge ones in the last couple of weeks that is very straight and knot free for the most part. One tree had a 4' dia. trunk and the other one is slightly larger. I believe that there is enough there to at least frame the new building. I have been doing a lot of reading on here this morning and I am very impressed with the amount of knowledge to be found here.

beenthere · « **Reply #1 on:** November 25, 2011, 10:29:17 am »

Jim
Welcome to the Forestry Forum

thecfarm · « **Reply #2 on:** November 25, 2011, 11:38:50 am »

Hello Jim,welcome to the forum. What are you using to saw the poplar with? And how did you get the logs out of the woods? Good size trees you there.

jimdad07 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 25, 2011, 12:03:28 pm »

If you look at my avatar you will see the carriage saw mill that I built. I am using a Dolmar 9010 to do all of the milling. Let me see if I can figure out how to post pics on this forum so you can see what I am doing. As far as getting the logs out, they are right by the road and I am quarter sawing them so that they can be handled. I won't be milling any of them until I have a good plan put together on my frame, that way I won't cut timbers that I don't need.

beenthere · « **Reply #4 on:** November 25, 2011, 01:45:31 pm »

jim
Go to the help button (under posting) to set up your own gallery (album) for your pics. There is upload help to get your pics on board, and then can imbed them in your post. Easy to do, and the FF way. Look forward to seeing them.

jimdad07 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 25, 2011, 04:45:44 pm »

jimdad07 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 25, 2011, 04:54:18 pm »

jimdad07 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 25, 2011, 04:56:19 pm »

There's a couple of pics of my mill and the last one is one of some of the logs that I had quarter sawn for making timbers. I have a whole lot more logs out of those trees to quarter saw yet, brought another hay wagon load home this afternoon.

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #8 on:** November 26, 2011, 08:27:59 am »

For making timbers for timber framing you should not quarter saw the logs.
This would be for any timber 5x5 or larger.
You need to have the center of the tree in the center of the timber for strength.

Jim Rogers

Raphael · « **Reply #9 on:** November 26, 2011, 01:12:43 pm »

Welcome to the forum.
Ditto what Jim R said. Also in the high tension trees I've been working with quarter sawing any significant length can leave you with some wicked curves. A nice look for knee braces but real bad for posts, beams, floor joists and edge butted pieces like paneling and flooring.

Jasperfield · « **Reply #10 on:** November 26, 2011, 07:41:30 pm »

Jimdad07,

Looks like you did a pretty good job making your mill. Have you fabricated any other forestry/farm equipment?

fishpharmer · « **Reply #11 on:** November 26, 2011, 08:30:14 pm »

Welcome to FF jimdad07!

Nice mill, looks like it cuts well. Log handling is half the battle, front end loader has that covered nicely.

jimdad07 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 26, 2011, 09:11:02 pm »

Quote from: Jim_Rogers on November 26, 2011, 08:27:59 am

For making timbers for timber framing you should not quarter saw the logs.
This would be for any timber 5x5 or larger.
You need to have the center of the tree in the center of the timber for strength.

Jim Rogers

The only problem I have is that the logs are so large that that is the only way I can handle them with the tractor. These trees are huge and unfortunately they are all that I have for my project. I would be happy to take any advice you might have on sawing them up down to a manageable size. I am pretty new to this part of carpentry, usually I prefer quarter sawn logs for woodworking. Building with them is new for me.

jimdad07 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 26, 2011, 09:21:08 pm »

Quote from: Jasperfield on November 26, 2011, 07:41:30 pm

Jimdad07,

Looks like you did a pretty good job making your mill. Have you fabricated any other forestry/farm equipment?

Not a lot that is big like the mill, usually making something like my mill is a matter of affordability. It is also very rewarding to create lumber with something I made myself. I have been teaching myself to weld and this mill was my first project for that. I don't have the money to hire things out or buy a lot of the tools that I need so a lot gets made. Most of my funds go to feeding my two yahoos and paying the bills. I am sure you guys know how it goes.

jimdad07 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 26, 2011, 10:05:44 pm »

Can anyone tell me the difference between "free of heart wood" and quarter sawn? Asking because another site mentioned that FOH is better than timbers with heart wood. I think I can get quite a few timbers that are the FOH but am I to understand that I should be staying away from the wood further away from the centers of the logs for main structural? I think I can swing it that way and then use the outer parts of the logs for pieces that are not as important for structural strength. Any thoughts form the guys who know, esp. from Jim Rogers?

Ianab · « **Reply #15 on:** November 27, 2011, 02:56:37 am »

The thing you need to avoid at all cost is having the "pith", the centre of the growth rings, anywhere near the edge of a beam or board. It will warp, twist, bow, or check... possibly all of those at once.

There are 2 ways of dealing with this.

Heart centred. This means you keep the pith centred in your beam, and this balances the stress that's naturally in the tree, or is caused by the tree drying. This will be most common with smaller logs, where you have now way of cutting the sizes you need without including the pith. So then you would saw off some outside boards for other uses, and leave the central beam.

OR Free Of Heart This means that the piece is cut well away from the pith, juvenile wood and the small growth rings near the centre. This should give you a piece with straight even grain, that should be stable and probably stronger then heart centred. Of course you need MUCH larger logs to be able to produce these, usually big softwood Dough Fir or similar.

Quartersawn relates to a sawn board, and how the growth rings are orientated. Looking at the end of the board, if the growth rings are near 90deg to the board, then it's Q-sawn. If the growth rings go across the wide dimension, then it's flat sawn. 45deg is Rift sawn. It doesn't really apply to beams as they are more square in dimensions. An 8x8 doesn't have a "flat" side to reference the grain from

Ian

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #16 on:** November 27, 2011, 08:02:42 am »

Quote from: Ianab on November 27, 2011, 02:56:37 am

The thing you need to avoid at all cost is having the "pith", the centre of the growth rings, anywhere near the edge of a beam or board. It will warp, twist, bow, or check... possibly all of those at once.

There are 2 ways of dealing with this.

Heart centred. This means you keep the pith centred in your beam, and this balances the stress that's naturally in the tree, or is caused by the tree drying. This will be most common with smaller logs, where you have now way of cutting the sizes you need without including the pith. So then you would saw off some outside boards for other uses, and leave the central beam.

OR Free Of Heart This means that the piece is cut well away from the pith, juvenile wood and the small growth rings near the centre. This should give you a piece with straight even grain, that should be stable and probably stronger then heart centred. Of course you need MUCH larger logs to be able to produce these, usually big softwood Dough Fir or similar.

Quartersawn relates to a sawn board, and how the growth rings are orientated. Looking at the end of the board, if the growth rings are near 90deg to the board, then it's Q-sawn. If the growth rings go across the wide dimension, then it's flat sawn. 45deg is Rift sawn. It doesn't really apply to beams as they are more square in dimensions. An 8x8 doesn't have a "flat" side to reference the grain from

Ian

What he said.
There are many post here on "boxed heart beams"
Do a search and read.
Jim Rogers

jimdad07 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 27, 2011, 09:06:17 am »

Thanks guys, that helps a lot. I almost panicked a little when I read about the quarter sawn. I think I can get what I need out of what I have, it will just take some thought before sawing them up. I think I will take picks of the end grains before I saw them up and post up to get a little feed back on the matter. I will also do some searching and reading. Thanks again guys, I'll keep you updated as I go.

Magicman · « **Reply #18 on:** November 27, 2011, 09:20:04 am »

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, jimdad07. Let the journey begin.

Raphael · « **Reply #19 on:** November 27, 2011, 01:15:08 pm »

One way to deal with those big logs is make a ground (or bolt on) track for your mill head to ride on.

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Author Topic: First post here, very impressed with the information found here (Read 819 times)