Author Topic: $25,000 Tree (Read 4643 times)

Frickman · « **on:** January 28, 2004, 11:17:45 am »

Over on ebay now there is a walnut tree in New Mexico that they're asking $25,000 for. Maybe one of you portable mill guys could drive right up and saw it, as it looks like it's in someone's yard. It's kind of far for me, and my mill's tied down.

ADfields · « **Reply #1 on:** January 28, 2004, 03:32:52 pm »

What, no link?

Must be some tree? It would be a bit hard to make a buck on a deal like that I bet.

Andy

Frickman · « **Reply #2 on:** January 28, 2004, 03:57:15 pm »

Sorry about no link. I'm still trying to learn this internet thing. If you go to ebay and search for walnut lumber it will come up.

etat · « **Reply #3 on:** January 28, 2004, 03:57:44 pm »

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2376239986&category=42354

frickman, just copy and paste the url and it wil show up as a link.

Frickman · « **Reply #4 on:** January 28, 2004, 04:02:36 pm »

Thanks for the help . I'll have to get the neighbor girl over to clue me in on cutting and pasting. I'm afraid I know less about computers than cutting logs, and I never claimed to know much about that.

sawyerkirk · « **Reply #5 on:** January 28, 2004, 04:04:39 pm »

Proximity to the buildings tells me he's nuts, not a veneer buyer out there that would even give him half that. Isn't that straight either!! Good luck to him though, we can all hope our hens lay golden eggs, but I aint seen one yet.!! I know, I'm sooo negative!

beenthere · « **Reply #6 on:** January 28, 2004, 04:43:27 pm »

Wow

Says 18' to the first limb? Maybe to the first live limb, but the 5" dead stub hangs out there 12' up and about 3' long, (and if it's the first limb, then the guys in the picture must be 10' tall). There are at least two visible 4-5" dead limb holes in the bole of that tree (or the picture is real deceiving). The scary thing is some unsuspecting soul may innocently bid on that and GET it (in the shorts!). And, have to agree that it is anything but straight.

Corley5 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 28, 2004, 06:32:37 pm »

but it's WALNUT

VA-Sawyer · « **Reply #8 on:** January 28, 2004, 06:45:05 pm »

beenthere,
Your comments were a lot kinder than the ones I was saying to the 'boss lady' when I was looking at the pictures of that walnut. You would have to be allnut to pay that much for that walnut.

VA-Sawyer

Mark M · « **Reply #9 on:** January 28, 2004, 06:45:47 pm »

Dat guy must be from Nord Dah-Ko-ta!

That's how much they would ask for a tree like that up here. Course they were all cut when Paul Bunyan came through here on his way to Minnesota so there ain't too many left.

Mark

Percy · « **Reply #10 on:** January 28, 2004, 07:11:42 pm »

What does green walnut sell for in the U.S.? Its says there is approx 3500 bdft in the tree. My guzzintas say 7.15 a bdft. before milling costs. You guys know where I can get some walnut seeds??

Frank_Pender · « **Reply #11 on:** January 28, 2004, 07:22:06 pm »

If there is 3500 bd ft in the bowl I'll eat my tin hat.

That fellas a few marbles out of the sack. He must be including the limb wood in the board footage, down to 4' in diam. I have sold tree twice that good for only a $1,000 and felt like a theif then.

If you want to see some nbice walnut trees take a look at www.gobywalnut.com and you will froth at the mouth.

MM · « **Reply #12 on:** January 28, 2004, 09:33:32 pm »

Guys,
watch that on ebay. If someone bid let me know. I've got some ocean front property to sell in arizona.

RavioliKid · « **Reply #13 on:** January 29, 2004, 03:45:34 am »

Gee, MM,

Ocean front property in Arizona would be far too expensive for me! Besides, there would be that long drive from Michigan.

Do you think you could move it closer?

Norm · « **Reply #14 on:** January 29, 2004, 03:53:22 am »

We get a call like that every so often. Usually they have the wife call and ask how much we get for walnut. Then they say they want to sell the tree in the backyard. One lady was pithed I wouldn't buy it.

Rav I've got some in Iowa if that helps. Of course it would be expensive cause we have so little ocean here.

Kirk_Allen · « **Reply #15 on:** January 29, 2004, 07:02:01 am »

The sad part is that some one will pay a gob of money for that tree not knowing any better and having to much money to care.

With that in mind, I'm excited

My dad has a Walnut that looks like the one in the Goby picture with the little guy up in the tree cutting limbs except it does not have any limbs for the first 16' and it is straight, unlike the NM Ebay tree. We put a tape around it last year and the circumference was 16 feet.

For you math wizards, whats that convert to in diameter. I think its about 61 inches but not sure on my math. Its cold and still early

The value will be based on what someone is willing to pay, not what we think its worth

I will make a prediction! If the tree sells, he will get between $10,000- $12,0000. Now I know its not worth that to me however we must realize this guy probably has no investment in the tree at all so when the bidding starts he is a winner with what ever price he gets. If it gets to half of what he asked, I say he will sell!

J_T · « **Reply #16 on:** January 29, 2004, 07:19:52 am »

Maybe he is supper smart could it be he needs it gone real bad and someone ask him mega bucks to take it down?In that case I would be afraid to bid five bucks.Kevin put your leaners on Ebay

beenthere · « **Reply #17 on:** January 29, 2004, 07:22:07 am »

Kirk
On E-bay (I think), the starting price shown is $25k, and there is no provision for coming in with a lower bid. So if anyone bids, it will be at the starting price or higher. So far no bids. It will be interesting to watch. Too bad comments to alert buyers are not possible. But, buyer be ware. If the guy gets no bids, does E-bay get their percentage?

Circumferance = pi x diameter

Gus · « **Reply #18 on:** January 29, 2004, 07:41:43 am »

Thats one fool. Be interesting to see if'n he finds another.

Frickman · « **Reply #19 on:** January 29, 2004, 08:02:29 am »

The neighbor girl does alot on ebay, and she said that if an item doesn't sell you still pay a listing fee. She said that on some of the smaller items she lists it is less than a dollar. Couldn't tell you what it is for 25,000 though.

I just was talking to a friend about the PA Farm Show two weeks ago. There was an exhibit there displaying various nuts and how to grow and store them. One of the posters showed the economics behind black walnut, and how much the logs were worth. It said that an acre of mature walnut should fetch at least $100,000 on the stump, and the trees would be ready to harvest in fifteen years. And you can sell the nuts in the meantime. I don't know about everyone else, but I think these folks might have stopped in New Mexico on the way to Harrisburg.

Kirk_Allen · « **Reply #20 on:** January 29, 2004, 10:14:02 am »

Its simple how they come to such a conclusion, however they don't know, don't understand, or are being deceitful with the whole process.

I have talked with a buyer from Mercedes Benz. They use walnut veneer on their dashboards. They pay very high dollar for that veneer to be installed.

By looking at the highest potential market (veneer dashboards for Benz) its simple to conclude that if a $25 piece of Walnut Veneer that is not even a single BF brings that kind of price then surely a whole tree that is producing 1500 BF must be worth thousands. Thus an assumption of an acre of them must be worth at least $100,000.

Its not hard to establish a money curve to make things look worth buying and it can be done by telling the truth, just not the WHOLE truth.

We see this practice regularly in our Fire business.

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #21 on:** January 29, 2004, 02:35:30 pm »

I don't know where they come up with that volume figure. Our trusty calculators only go up to 40". A 40" 2 1/2 log tree has about 1600 bf. I could figure that 42 incher, but it still won't be 3500 bf.

They now have a hybrid black walnut that has super growth rates. I've seen it advertised as 18" trees in 25 years. Whenever I see absurb claims of dollar value or volumes, I usually call them on the carpet. If they could make that kind of money in 15 years, you wouldn't see them growing corn or soybeans.

For those thinking of investing, here's a 2 acre plantation that didn't get a bid on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2372333375&category=15841 Has some outrageous claims.

Here's another one. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2372933557&category=15841

I asked a veneer buyer what he thought of hybrid walnut. He said there was no interest since there was no grain pattern due to the fast growth.

Those Mercedes veneers are European, not US walnut.

Kirk_Allen · « **Reply #22 on:** January 29, 2004, 03:09:45 pm »

Ron,
Couldnt agree with you more. If it were true we would thow out the corn and beans and start planting!

In regards to Benz, they have done some buying of Walnut from the US. I spoke with a buyer about two years ago who was negotiating the purchase of some walnut from a farm near ours specifically for the auto industry.

Now Im not sure if this guy was a broker for numerous dealers or just Benz but he left me with the impression that he worked for Benz.

Regardless, Walnut is nice, but its no going to bring the money that guy thinks.

Larry · « **Reply #23 on:** January 29, 2004, 04:26:20 pm »

I think I am going to bid on that tree. $1,000 to take it down, plus mileage and expenses from north Missouri. Might give a discount if the temperature is out of the single digits down there.

Stan · « **Reply #24 on:** January 29, 2004, 06:11:50 pm »

I think that fella at the Farm Show musta been the guy with the $25,000 tree.

East_West_Dan · « **Reply #25 on:** January 29, 2004, 09:28:03 pm »

As I'm sure you all know we can ask questions of the ebay sellers. I wonder if we should all get after this joker. A number of years ago I took down a couple of walnuts in a suburb of New York City and the woman was not happy that I wouldn't give her anything for the trees, only take them down in exchange for the logs.They were about 28"dbh, behind the house and had to be roped and winched out and had the usual assortment of close line hooks board ladders etc..."Well this other man gave me $1000.00 for the one that was in front of the house". You should call him and he can tell the both of us why he gave you $1000.00 for a short logged, 20" tree with a big rotten hole in the middle. Someone should write a book.
I usually pay between 500-$1000/thousand for decent walnut logs. Do a lot of trading too.
Dan

Stephen_Wiley · « **Reply #26 on:** January 29, 2004, 09:35:57 pm »

Do ya suppose someone appraised that tree @ $25k. So he made them a bet for say $500 he could not sell it on E-Bay.

Trying to find *his* logic

Stephen_Wiley · « **Reply #27 on:** January 29, 2004, 09:47:29 pm »

Started reading this thread and posted before I got to the last post.

Welcome Dan.

Looked at your website and I think I have seen some of your furniture in one of my client's homes in Salem.

Did you move to the West Coast to interact with different species?

Ever have trouble with post hole beetle with your CA myrtle? (Bayleaf)

Frank_Pender · « **Reply #28 on:** January 30, 2004, 06:33:10 am »

Welcome a board to the Forum, Dan. It is always great to have another West Coaster around.

Hey, are you going to be able to get to the Logging show in Eugene? If so, stop by the Mobile Dimension demo mill, I would like to shake your hand. There just might be a few of us fromthe Forum in attendance.

Frickman · « **Reply #29 on:** January 30, 2004, 07:03:16 am »

I would have done like Ron and asked the folks at the Farm Show how they came up with their figures, but no one was around. If their claims were true, there would be no need for all the hay, corn and grain equipment at the show, we'd all be growing walnuts.

Tillaway · « **Reply #30 on:** January 30, 2004, 07:27:09 am »

Thats a mighty skinny 42" tree. That guy is standing behind it and he looks wider than it.

Frank, I might be in for the show, don't know which day yet though.

beenthere · « **Reply #31 on:** January 30, 2004, 07:59:00 am »

Will someone pay $25,000 for this "tree"?

The person on e-bay thinks so.

WV_hillbilly · « **Reply #32 on:** January 30, 2004, 08:30:59 pm »

The even funnier thing about this auction is that the guy just became a registered seller on Ebay the 26 of Jan. and has no feed back . So even if the starting price was vastly lower I would still be hesitant to bid on this auction .

East_West_Dan · « **Reply #33 on:** January 31, 2004, 08:58:53 am »

Frank and Stephen, Thanks for the welcome. As an old friend Jake used to say, "He slipped in kinda sidelong".

Stephen, I've been having a great time with the western hardwoods and thier favorite bugs. I been useing native species exclusively for the past 5 years. About 95% of it I mill and dry myself. For powder post in the Myrtle I spray with Timbor, which is a borax product,right after milling and then try to get it in the kiln and up to 150 degrees after a year of air drying. Then it's wrapped in plastic untill a project comes up. I think the Lead Cable Borers in the Madrone are worse if the logs have sat around any length of time.They bore deeper into the log and keep up there work in the boards until they are cooked good. And then there are Ambrosia beetles that love Tan Oak and Myrtle as well.

It's a real challenge but worth the effort as the local hardwoods are beautiful and it's a relatively untapped market. I did bring a tractor trailor load of eastern wood out here with me when I moved but thats being saved for the dream house which I hope doesn't remain a dream for too much longer.

The species that I've had the most trouble with is the hybridized Homo Erectus Californicas. In the 60's they mixed with outsiders and can be very difficult to work with. I've given up on most of them. Sorry, couldn't pass up the chance to have a little fun!

Frank, Would like to go to the Eugene get together and visit. What are the dates? My wife and I did a wirlwind tour up that way looking at property and visiting my friend Woodrat and his family. Nice country.I think nine years in the Emerald Triangle is enough.

Back to the original thread, I got a branch from a Black Walnut tree last year that might be worth $25,000.00. A lot bigger tree than the ebay one. Between 8-10' dia. and it's named and registered and even has a legend. They say a soldier was killed by one of the original inhabitants and he was buried with a Black Walnut in his pocket. The branch, and it was one of the smaller ones, scaled out at 800 bdft.
Got some 24" wide bookmatched planks 11' long. I told the owner I hope the tree dies one branch at a time so I can afford it.I have some pictures and I'll see if I can figure out the posting program. Glad to be aboard. (no pun intended)

Dan

beenthere · « **Reply #34 on:** January 31, 2004, 10:02:50 am »

These walnut trees are amazing things

EW Dan: A 'branch' 8-10 inch diam would have to be about 200' long to get 800 board feet, wouldn't it? And how did one get 24" wide plank (maybe glued up?). I must be missing something here. What is it, as I am of the curious type.

Buzz-sawyer · « **Reply #35 on:** January 31, 2004, 10:43:41 am »

Beenthere
I am suprised the MAGICAL and amazing properties of the elite and elastic WALNUT have eluded you!
This is some wild stuff...it streches and can puff up like a blow fish...it can defeat all inflation by its amazing ability to always be WORTH more than it really is!!!!

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #36 on:** January 31, 2004, 03:15:02 pm »

I've not looked at the tree but 3500 board feet knot free is way off. That's half a tractor trailor load. On hardwood the butt log and maybe (if your lucky) the second bolt is all you get. To ummm nip this in the bud (so to speak) I've sawn white pine, 5 eight foot bolts (smallest bolt with 10 inch top) on a circular saw and could only recover 780 board feet. A sitka spruce with dbh 8 feet and 220 feet tall is around 15,000 board feet ( a true $25,000 veneer tree). They are suggesting that they have a walnut with 1/4 the board feet of these giants? I'm laughing myself silly.

East_West_Dan · « **Reply #37 on:** January 31, 2004, 07:29:53 pm »

Sorry, Pushed the wrong button. Put a tape around it this afternoon. 25' !
Dan

CHARLIE · « **Reply #38 on:** January 31, 2004, 09:23:53 pm »

Anyone can send a message to the seller by clicking on "Ask Seller a Question". Maybe someone should ask about the dead limbs and the crooked trunk.

Frank_Pender · « **Reply #39 on:** January 31, 2004, 10:00:24 pm »

8)E - W Dan, The Oregon Logging Conference and Show is Feb. 26, 27, 28.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #40 on:** February 01, 2004, 05:04:39 am »

@ East-West Dan

A tree with 25"" top by 16 foot length is around 485 board feet according to bangor log rule, and its one of the more liberal log rules. Divide your $25,000 value by 8 I think.

I can buy black walnut at the local supply depot for $8.50 CDN a running foot.

On a 14' long bird's eye figured maple with 19 inch top we got $1600 CDN one time. It was owned by another local woodlot owner and bought by an individual purchasing figured wood. A few years ago people were throwing this stuff into the wood pile split up

On crown land I've run into small areas with figured wood while hunting ruffed grouse. Its rare on managed woodlots because of cutting history.

Theres going to be mighty compression wood in that limb, thus degrading the value considerably. Hope your into making crossbows.

regards

East_West_Dan · « **Reply #41 on:** February 01, 2004, 09:15:04 am »

The tree is 8 feet in diameter and forks into multiple tops at about 8 feet. The 24" planks came from the second log in one of the smaller limbs which grew close to vertical and broke off at the base. The lumber dried flat and shows little sign of stress.I've found walnut limb wood easier to work with than other spiecies and most of it will be used in short lengths for furniture parts. I think I said it might be worth 25 g's. There are long 6 foot wide crotchs which may have some veneer value as well as many other parts of the tree. A few years ago Japanese buyers were looking at it. It's not your run of the mill good tree. Just thought you all would like the story. I'll see if I can get a picture or two posted. Got a busy week so it might take a while.
Dan

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #42 on:** February 01, 2004, 10:03:08 am »

That walnut tree looks open grown to me and if its only 40 feet tall it tapers fast, so lets assume its 24 inches in diameter on the top before the first limbs. Then there's a lttle less than 600 board feet in that bolt. And the tree is defiantely not 200 years old, close to 80 is realistic. I have 2 maple trees here for which I have a photo of my father and his sibs in front of them at aged 4. The trees are 2 inches and 10 feet tall then. The trees are 28 inches in diameter now and 60 feet tall, and father is 66 this March. So knowing how fast open grown trees grow in my area, my trees are around 80 years of age. Black walnut down south grows alot faster than northern hardwood does.

Take it from there

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #43 on:** February 01, 2004, 10:14:57 am »

@ east-west Dan

You should be fine working with short pieces. But the value in selling this stuff comes from having been able to cut 8',10',12' foot stock that remains stable when dried. I've tried using limbwood from white walnut (butternut) and black cherry and watch things pull apart

regards

Stephen_Wiley · « **Reply #44 on:** February 01, 2004, 10:32:20 am »

Hey Dan,

Glad you enjoying 'Western Hardwoods' as their are some hidden gems just North of you as well.

Sounds like you got a handle on the 'wood munchers' except for maybe the borers in the Madrone. Suprised you have not had trouble with Ambrosia in the Madrone. Unless the Myrtle is relatively close.

Has the Sudden Oak Death had an impact on your business?

Gonna have to show us pics of the house when you start building.

The species that I've had the most trouble with is the hybridized Homo Erectus Californicas. In the 60's they mixed with outsiders and can be very difficult to work with. I've given up on most of them.

Have also had much trouble with the same species as they have translocated North here. Their structural habitats are not pleasing to look at.

Would like to meet ya in Eugene if you can make it, I will probably be there on Friday 27.

East_West_Dan · « **Reply #45 on:** February 03, 2004, 07:37:33 am »

Stephen, My shop is right in the middle of a quarantined zone. I don't ship any green products so it hasn't affected me. The tree service companies working in the nieghborhood have to take their chips to the co-gen plant though.

I'm not sure how much of a handle I can get on the borers in Madrone. If you can mill up fresh cut logs at 5 or 6/4 and get it in the kiln in a few months damage should be minimal. I get lot of windfall that may have been down a year and it all gets milled at 8-10-12/4 so there is plenty of moisture to keep them happy.As Madrone is so prone to collapse it's risky to pop it in the kiln too early.I just accept some degrade and thats fine as the wood is worth it. Living and working in an entomologists heaven can be a challenge.

Gonna try to get to Eugene.

Dan

Percy · « **Reply #46 on:** February 03, 2004, 05:10:11 pm »

Still no bidders as of 5PM PST....Think he's gettin the message??

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #47 on:** February 03, 2004, 05:41:06 pm »

@ Percy

Either that or he's numb as a stump

C_Miller · « **Reply #48 on:** February 04, 2004, 02:48:16 pm »

There must be a scientific way to calculate an "expectation vs. investment" graph. It seems that the less investment a person has in a commoditiy the greater his expection on his return.

C

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #49 on:** February 04, 2004, 03:20:12 pm »

@ C_Miller

Yes, its the 'expectation value', don't ask me to explain it.

Forestry finance example:
http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/forestry/420-407/420-407.html

Formulae to get your head wrapped up in:
http://my-forest.com/finance/index.html

Yup thought so

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #50 on:** February 04, 2004, 04:36:05 pm »

I talked to some of our truckers today, and it seems that they saw a veneer walnut in one of the yards the other year that fetched $50k. 31" at 15' with a very specific ring pattern.

I also remember a walnut selling for $35,000 back in the mid '70s. I talked to a veneer buyer, and he said that there were trees like that and he wouldn't hesititate to buy one for that price if it was worth it. I had several calls when that appeared in the paper.

I wouldn't hesitate to guess that the Ebay tree doesn't meet the above criteria.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #51 on:** February 04, 2004, 05:22:56 pm »

DanG-it! Made me get the tree bible out agin

Here's a finding from the text:

In the May 1971 issue of American Forests, M. Frome noted that a black walnut tree 100 ft tall and 3 ft d.b.h brought the then record price of $12,600 for veneer stock

Here's a site for ya
http://www.the7thfire.com/Sonic_Bloom/sonic_bloom_Black_Walnut_Production.html

Frickman · « **Reply #52 on:** February 05, 2004, 03:26:34 pm »

I just clicked on Swampdonkey's link to Sonicbloom. They're claiming that forty acres of walnut trees will bring 100 to 200 million dollars in 17 years. And they're saying it with a straight face.

If this stuff worked that good, why haven't they made enough money to retire to an island somewhere?

woodmills1 · « **Reply #53 on:** February 05, 2004, 05:25:25 pm »

So you pay say $100,000 to buy the forty and plant the walnut, then in 17 years you take the million in profit and buy a tropical island and plant mahogany and 17 years later you sell it for 17 million?

Tom · « **Reply #54 on:** February 05, 2004, 05:29:59 pm »

I've got 40 acres on the creek :-/

I'm going to raise my short rotation pine, cut it and throw it in the creek for a couple of years and sell it for Deadhead. .....$100 a board foot. Anybody want to buy into this?

J_T · « **Reply #55 on:** February 05, 2004, 05:40:24 pm »

Tom For Deadhead or To Florida Deadhead?

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #56 on:** February 05, 2004, 06:21:10 pm »

woodmills1 · « **Reply #57 on:** February 05, 2004, 06:23:35 pm »

So since Jerry has passed the deadheads buy sinker pine?

beenthere · « **Reply #58 on:** February 05, 2004, 07:08:53 pm »

Can breathe easier now, the $25,000 walnut guy didn't get a bid. Not that I was cared that much, but didn't want to see it happen to some unsuspecting person. The guy didn't respond to any questions either.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #59 on:** February 06, 2004, 02:04:24 pm »

bah ha ha ha my stomach hurts

News:

Author Topic: $25,000 Tree (Read 4643 times)

Kirk_Allen

Kirk_Allen

Kirk_Allen