Clear cutting

[WH_Conley]

I just heard this morning that they are planning on clear cutting the place next to me. I am not against clear cutting. I have seen how it is done from Canada as far south as the Gulf. Treated like a crop, different land. I am against clear cutting the way it is done here. Slash and rape, no replanting. Natural regeneration would be fine, if there was anything to seed from. We have hills that look like a pine plantation had a final cut. The big difference is it is standing straight up and down, except for the skid roads. Nothing is being planted back. I can show clear cuts that are 20 years old that is nothing but briers. When the creeks have a minor or major flood they are thick with sediment, not just muddy like they were a few years ago. The bug lovers have effectively put a stop to cleaning out the drift islands, the water can't flow like it used to. I have no scientific evidence to prove the two related, but, in the last 10 years we have had floods higher than were ever known among the old timers. Sure makes a person think there is a connection. Most of the wooded acreage is owned by a couple of corporations, not local. They have a forestry management company, they also have stock holders that want to see a return. I don't imagine the foresters have much say as far best management practices.

OK, rant over, I just had to vent, winter coming on, time to get ready for the next spring floods, wonder how big they will be this time. Two last year, both record setters.

[Gary_C]

Has your state adopted any type of Best Management Practices for woodlots? If so, whoever is doing those clearcuts could not do them as you describe. Here in MN we have Forest Management Guidlines that outline the proper steps to protect woodlots but they are voluntary. However you could not do the type of clearcut you are describing if you allow runoff into a waterway.

Not that you cannot do clearcuts, but first you must protect any waterways with a Riparian Management Zone next to any water so there is no runoff. You also have to take some measures to protect the site from erosion during and after the clearcut. And I don't believe it is sound economic practice to leave any site with out some plan for regen.

Doing work like this is extremely bad publicity for the entire wood business and should not occur, regardless if you have any adopted BMP's or not.

[beenthere]

WH
Might be a good time to contact the company foresters and discuss their plans and your concerns. Might shed some light on what is going to happen. Might even be different than what you heard.
We'd be interested in what they have to say too.

[Ron Scott]

Yes, check with the "professional" foresters who set up the management RX for the company's timber harvest. Nothing against clearcuts, except that they should be the optimum method and best silvicultural practice for the species involved to meet the landowner's management ojectives.

It should be a plan that reforestation is implemented within 5 years of the harvest an of course BMP's should be followed. 

[craigc]

Today I just started a clearcut on ground owned by the Audubon Society.  They are getting ready to sell it to the State of Illinois who will make it habitate for migratory song birds.  Seems wrong to me but what do I know.

[Woodhog]

the place next to me

If your place is a nice woodlot, get ready for blow downs, around here they cut right up to your line, this opens your line which has been sheltered and is not at all wind firm,  all along the cut section line the spruce/fir will blow down around here. It makes a real mess, they are long gone with their money and you are trying to clean up criss-crossed blow downs for hundred or thousands of feet...

[KBforester]

Today I just started a clearcut on ground owned by the Audubon Society.  They are getting ready to sell it to the State of Illinois who will make it habitate for migratory song birds.  Seems wrong to me but what do I know.

Birds (and bird people) love clearcuts. Not all of them mind you, but most bird experts think bigger (20+ acres) brings in more species diversity. Early sucessional habitat is becoming more and more rare with clearcutting happening less and less. To some birds, land filled with 10ft tall saplings is too tall/old.

[WDH]

I agree with BT.  Your interest in what is taking place next door and your asking if they are going to follow the State BMP's will have an influence on what happens.  While BMP's are voluntary, a water quality violation of the clean water act is a big big deal.  The Feds will be all over them if that happens and it is reported.

[SwampDonkey]

If anyone ever did some pre-commercial thinning after those clearcuts, you would hear so many birds singing during the nesting season that you would have a hard time separating the species. But, as stated water should always be protected. But not only that, the land the water runs over because of deep erosion channels that can happen. Around here, it's just about impossible to enforce the environmental laws. The government doesn't like to be in the middle of a controversy. 

[terry f]

The land bordering me was cut about 15 years ago. They left alot of trees and I thought it looked good and they were doing good. The land was sold to another timber co and they clear cut it about 5 years ago. woodhog you're right about the wind it does change things. My question is if you had 30 to 40 trees per acre that is putting on decent growth that were 18'' to 24'' wouldn't you get alot more volume or value leaveing them another 15 or 20 years and not effect the regeneration too much with the shade. The clear cut was replanted 3 years ago with ponderosa pine and those trees are doing great. You can tell I don't care for clear cutting but for now when I walk around the edge of my property I can sure see a long way.

[SwampDonkey]

Depends on the species, some trees that open will sprout new epicormic branches off the main stem. But, this is usually in non-mature trees that were not dominant. Dominant mature hardwood in that size probably won't sprout. You also can run into sun scald with non dominant trees.

[BaldBob]

"My question is if you had 30 to 40 trees per acre that is putting on decent growth that were 18'' to 24'' wouldn't you get alot more volume or value leaveing them another 15 or 20 years and not effect the regeneration too much with the shade."

Terry,

The harvest 15 years ago that left 30-40 trees/ac. sounds like a shelterwood harvest.  The regeneration that should have occurred after that harvest would be subject to too much damage if they waited much longer to remove the overstory ( technically their harvest in this case is called an overstory removal instead of a clearcut). If the shelterwood failed as a regeneration method (which it sounds like in this case since they had to replant) then it was time to take off the residuals and replant because:
1. Although those trees may have been putting on good growth; at 18-24", they had reached economic maturity in your area. The mills in your area are configured to most efficiently handle the size logs that size tree yields, and the mills as now configured, have difficulty handling any log that is larger than 29" on the large end ( bigger does not mean higher value in this case.)
2. Ponderosa Pine does not grow well in the shade of other trees.

I would guess that in 5-10 more years, that you will have great difficulty seeing more that 30' from your property line in that direction.

[terry f]

      What goes into the decision on what to plant after a clear cut? Is it the volume one type might put on and shortest time to market or is it the value of another type that could be longer to market but hopefully more $ per thousand? I know it would be hard to guess what the market might be 30 to 50 years out, but some forester must be makeing these decisions.

[stavebuyer]

Ky does have mandatory best management practices. Loggers have to have Master Logger certification and are subject to fines for non-compliance. With a clearcut that size the state division of forestry will most likely be inspecting for compliance and a courtesy call to the local division office will insure they are on-site.

Hardwoods here pretty much renegerate from coppice sprouting or existing seed. I think Yellow Poplar seed has a viability along the lines of 8 years. Won't dispute that something went wrong on the prior clearcut in your neighborhood; but most I have seen come back better on their own than by than any planting that could be done. Don't bush hog a hayfield for a couple years and generally you have a woods.

[WDH]

In the deep South, softwood (southern yellow pine, SYP) has higher value than hardwoods.  So, if the site is suitable and the objective is commercial timber production, then SYP is usually planted.  It is essentially a tree crop in rows.  The bottomlands and hardwood sites (not suitable to pine) are usually not replanted after harvest but rather regenerate naturally. 

Your choice of species and the amount of effort required to establish would depend on your objectives.  If it is commercial timber production to cut and sell later, go with the tried and true species that have had the best market value in your area. 

[Phorester]

What to plant after a clearcut is also greatly dependent on the type of soil there.  If a hardwood forest was clearcut, but the soil is better suited for pine, then pine should be replanted. If it's good hardwood soil, then regenerate with hardwood. This should be decided upon before the clearcutting is done, and usually is if a forester is involved. 

Clearcutting, like any other timber harvesting method,  is not a goal itself: it is a means used to reach a goal.  In other words, the goal would be to improve wildlife habitat, to create a healthier forest here than what is growing now, to convert the area to another use. A landowner should not say; "I want to clearcut this area next year." That begs the question..., why? 

He should say; "I want; a) more deer, more turkeys, more grouse, etc. b) a healthier forest for the future, c) to clear this area for a field, d) to have a more valuable forest here in the future than what is currently growing, etc.".  "My first step to accomplish this is to clearcut this area, because what is growing here now does not meet my goal."

Also, clearcutting is obviously the most visually jarring of any forestry practice when it occurs.  Any type of timber cutting is not a landscaping operation; never has been, never will be.  But I've had landowners complain about clearcutting while standing in a forest that had been clearcut 20, 30, 50 years ago and not realize that they were standing in a clearcut forest. Forests re-grow after clearcutting, just takes them longer than we would lik since our lifespan is much shorter than a tree.

WH, your 20-year old clearcut that's nothing but briars sounds like it should have been replanted but was not.  I can show you the same thing in my area. Ugly, but at the same time is good wildlife habitat with the brushy nature of such an area.  Think like an animal - that needs to hide, that needs young vegetation to eat, clear spots for annual weeds for their seeds and/or the insects that are attracted to them, etc. .  What's messy to us people is good for wildlife.

[WDH]

Critters love the clearcuts, especially the deer, turkey, and birds. 

[SwampDonkey]

And the moose.