Author Topic: Rope fitting question (Read 806 times)

bigsnowdog · « **on:** November 07, 2011, 01:28:30 pm »

I received a long piece of 5/8 Yale Polydyne. I am going to use it to tension trees to fell. No rigging, just tension. I will probably use a truck as the anchor point. Is there some commercial fitting that provides a larger radius than the neck of a hitch ball that would protect the rope? Something I can attach to a piece I put in my receiver hitch?

I am trying to protect the rope, and would make something, but figure someone sells something. I realize a rope block would work, but hate to spend that much money if it does not need block function.

Thank you.

Kevin · « **Reply #1 on:** November 07, 2011, 01:40:23 pm »

Use a rope brake (Port-A-Wrap) and sling.

sprucebunny · « **Reply #2 on:** November 07, 2011, 01:41:44 pm »

You can buy eyes also called thimbles.
Link for illustration
http://www.indiamart.com/masindustries/micellaneous.html

Kevin · « **Reply #3 on:** November 07, 2011, 01:45:02 pm »

If you don't want to spend too much then a figure eight and sling.

zopi · « **Reply #4 on:** November 07, 2011, 02:29:58 pm »

Would not use a figure eight...
Getcha a big shackle and pin it through a hitch tongue..been jerking trees over for awhile like that...if it makes you feel better you can put a thimble in it...if the shackle is at least the diameter of the rope you will he ok.
The porta wrap would still have to be attatched to the anchor point with a sling...not designed to be used with a hard poi.t...

jander3 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 07, 2011, 02:54:28 pm »

Put an eye splice on the rope with thimble. Connect with shackle.

For felling, I really like rope pullers to add tension and coax a tree into the correct direction (when needed). They are easy to carry, easy to set up, and reach to the end of your rope.

Or, just tie a butterfly knot and loop it over something.

Ianab · « **Reply #6 on:** November 07, 2011, 03:17:52 pm »

The rope puller is a great idea. You can anchor it off a vehicle, stump, another tree, whatever. Useful for sorting out all sorts of things.

What you want to be able to do is attach your rope, and just take up the slack, not really put tension on the tree. Then make your felling cuts, leaving the tree sitting on the hinge, with the rope all set up to pull.

Then at your leisure, wander around (via a safe path) to the winch, and just pull it over. 95% of the time you will be able to bring trees down with just wedges, but sometimes that rope comes in handy.

Ian

zopi · « **Reply #7 on:** November 07, 2011, 03:27:07 pm »

Ian is right...even trees where I can fell them, without blocking them out, I almost always get a line in it and pull it over if I can...just one more bit of insurance ...sometimes they get stubborn after the cuts..I want that sucker on the ground as soon after it becomes unstable as possible.

Kevin · « **Reply #8 on:** November 07, 2011, 04:07:43 pm »

Quote from: zopi on November 07, 2011, 02:29:58 pm

Would not use a figure eight...

Why not?
They are rated at 10k lbs.
You can also soft or hard lock them.

For the rope winch , it won't accept a 5/8 rope, you will need a friction hitch and a length of 1/2" tree master three strand.

Reddog · « **Reply #9 on:** November 07, 2011, 04:35:09 pm »

I use a Prusik loop at times also to hook into equipment. That way the prusik takes the abuse, cheaper to splice up a new loop than lose a long rope.

zopi · « **Reply #10 on:** November 07, 2011, 04:45:18 pm »

Quote from: Kevin on November 07, 2011, 04:07:43 pm

Quote from: zopi on November 07, 2011, 02:29:58 pm
Would not use a figure eight...

Why not?
They are rated at 10k lbs.
You can also soft or hard lock them.

For the rope winch , it won't accept a 5/8 rope, you will need a friction hitch and a length of 1/2" tree master three strand.

Well...to be fair, I also climb, and just as general practice won't use climbing gear for rigging...but mostly, i feel there are better ways to do it...

zopi · « **Reply #11 on:** November 07, 2011, 04:48:05 pm »

Quote from: Reddog on November 07, 2011, 04:35:09 pm

I use a Prusik loop at times also to hook into equipment. That way the prusik takes the abuse, cheaper to splice up a new loop than lose a long rope.

Duh...why didn't I think of that...I use prusiks on a two part tackle instead of a rope puller....makes sense to use them on a straight line pull too...although, I might go with a distel hitch on a clevis...
<hydraulic hair splitter>

Kevin · « **Reply #12 on:** November 07, 2011, 07:02:57 pm »

Description
This steel version from PMI is designed for maximum wearability & versatility. You can expect it to provide hundreds of hours of impeccable performance in just about any environment. The classic geometry of the figure 8 with ears will accept single or double wrapping braking, & this particular unit works with rope diameters up to 5/8". Use the small, bottom hole as a stitch plate.

This large figure 8 is for extra gritty environments or heavy use. Features include:

Drop forged steel
Nickle chrome plated
Accepts rope up to 5/8.
Color: silver
Weight: 567 g.
MBS- 28kN
NFPA rated.

5/8 "rope is rigging rope not climbing rope.

I would agree that there are better methods but they come with a significant cost.

bigsnowdog · « **Reply #13 on:** November 07, 2011, 07:18:53 pm »

Quote from: Ianab on November 07, 2011, 03:17:52 pm

The rope puller is a great idea. You can anchor it off a vehicle, stump, another tree, whatever. Useful for sorting out all sorts of things.

What you want to be able to do is attach your rope, and just take up the slack, not really put tension on the tree. Then make your felling cuts, leaving the tree sitting on the hinge, with the rope all set up to pull.

Then at your leisure, wander around (via a safe path) to the winch, and just pull it over. 95% of the time you will be able to bring trees down with just wedges, but sometimes that rope comes in handy.

Ian

I am curious, why do you not want to put tension on the tree?

bigsnowdog · « **Reply #14 on:** November 07, 2011, 07:23:58 pm »

If I am understanding these ideas correctly the radius offered by a hitch ball just below the hitch is larger than some of the features you would have the rope bear against, is that right?

I had thought it might be better to have a radius of an inch or two, if possible. I also am not understanding how a figure 8 works, having just done some web searches, but not coming up with photos showing rope on one of them.

Ianab · « **Reply #15 on:** November 07, 2011, 07:44:04 pm »

If you tension up the tree then it becomes the same as a forward leaning tree. As you complete your back cut there is a possibility the tree might "barber chair", and split up the middle from the tension, if you have applied too much. Some trees are more prone to this, and it can be very dangerous if you happen to be standing beside the tree when it happens.

By just taking the slack out of the rope, you have control of the tree, but aren't putting any extra stress on it. You complete your felling cuts, leaving just the strip of hinge wood intact. Then you can retreat to a safe position and gently pull the tree over in a controlled manner. The hinge wood controls the exact direction of the fall, the rope just ensures it's going the right direction, not 180deg opposite, and provides a bit of force to get the tree tipping if needed.

Ian

zopi · « **Reply #16 on:** November 07, 2011, 08:09:59 pm »

Snowdog, any bend in a rope that is less than about four times the rope's diameter weakens the rope significantly while under tension..

A figure eight, also called a rescue eight is a rappel device used in climbing. Do an image search for rescue eight.

zopi · « **Reply #17 on:** November 07, 2011, 08:14:30 pm »

Kevin..that is a heckuvan eight...
I am inordinately fond of my porta wrap.

I want one of those good rigging thingies...will have one as soon as I get around to building the bloody thing...already have the parts scrounged.

bigsnowdog · « **Reply #18 on:** November 07, 2011, 08:18:02 pm »

Quote from: zopi on November 07, 2011, 08:09:59 pm

Snowdog, any bend in a rope that is less than about four times the rope's diameter weakens the rope significantly while under tension..

A figure eight, also called a rescue eight is a rappel device used in climbing. Do an image search for rescue eight.

I did do a search, and did see some. No rope on them, and looking at the material and construction, it seems to violate your 4Xdiameter guideline, do you agree? I am not understanding how a figure 8 works.

Kevin · « **Reply #19 on:** November 07, 2011, 10:27:34 pm »

The 4:1 is the bend radius used on sheaves for heavy loads.
The tension on pulling a tree is usually less than a few hundred pounds.
By using the figure 8 the rope can be installed mid line, not at the end and locked off then tensioned with your truck if that's what you had in mind.

This is the rope through the 8 without being locked.

bigsnowdog · « **Reply #20 on:** November 07, 2011, 10:37:47 pm »

Great photo. What do you mean by locked?

Kevin · « **Reply #21 on:** November 07, 2011, 10:55:16 pm »

The lock is done by tying the rope back on itself.
I would use a carabiner in there but this bare bones.

Kevin · « **Reply #22 on:** November 07, 2011, 11:09:18 pm »

Quote from: zopi on November 07, 2011, 08:14:30 pm

Kevin..that is a heckuvan eight...
I am inordinately fond of my porta wrap.

I want one of those good rigging thingies...will have one as soon as I get around to building the bloody thing...already have the parts scrounged.

You can't do serious work without one, I use mine on almost every job.

thecfarm · « **Reply #23 on:** November 08, 2011, 06:24:28 am »

By the way how high up should the rope be tied to help pull it over?

Kevin · « **Reply #24 on:** November 08, 2011, 08:25:05 am »

The higher the better.
Shoot the throw line up,pull the rope up, tie a running bowline in your rope, pull it tight and you're good to go.

Kevin · « **Reply #25 on:** November 08, 2011, 08:57:31 am »

This is the GRCS truck mount from Baileys, you can use a simple rope brake on this mount as well.

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=21425

zopi · « **Reply #26 on:** November 08, 2011, 10:04:39 am »

Yeah, for the two grand or so that they cost, I would sleep with it like a teddy bear....those things are great...and not just for tree removal....
I can think of a few widowmakers I had to remove that would have been so much safer with one.

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Author Topic: Rope fitting question (Read 806 times)