Author Topic: need help keeping my pine from stain an mold... (Read 1612 times)

pitsaw · « **on:** November 03, 2011, 01:54:46 pm »

I've never had much luck airdrying yellow pine without stain or mold an need help.Uselly I don't mind cause most goes for barn siding or fence but I just sawed 1000 bdft to panel the inside of woodshop an want to keep this stuff looking nice. I uselly sticker with 1" stickers ever 18" an in a open sided barn and a big drum fan with no luck. I thought maybe I would have better luck sence its cooling down here in florida but the stuff I cut last week is moldy as heck. Is it just me ? Thanks in advance Jason

Den Socling · « **Reply #1 on:** November 03, 2011, 03:53:28 pm »

It sounds like you are doing everything right. My guess is that your mill is polluted with mold spores. Nothing unusual about that and not a lot you can do. I would suggest that you buy a box of Borax and mix a solution of one cup Borax to one gallon of water. Spray it on your wood while stacking.

T Welsh · « **Reply #2 on:** November 03, 2011, 05:37:13 pm »

Like Den, sounds like your doing everything right. where are you stacking and drying. in a damp location? if so,you need to get it some where that is good and dry right away and keep it that way with plenty of dry air circulating through it. Tim

red oaks lumber · « **Reply #3 on:** November 03, 2011, 07:11:02 pm »

how fresh are your logs? if they been cut for awhile, once you cut them into lumber all the added oxyegen will really speed up mold or bluestaining.

pitsaw · « **Reply #4 on:** November 03, 2011, 07:43:19 pm »

most of my logs only sit in the yard a few days from the time they are cut.I saw them an sticker'em never deadstack.I'll the try the borax trick an see what happens. would 20 mule team borax be alright?

Den Socling · « **Reply #5 on:** November 03, 2011, 09:46:35 pm »

That's the stuff.

WDH · « **Reply #6 on:** November 03, 2011, 10:28:32 pm »

Stain is caused by a fungus. In the South, after a pine is felled, you can have as little as one week before the blue stain sets in when it is hot and humid. The only cure for this is to saw the lumber as close to tree felling as possible. As for the the mold and mildew, that sounds like too much humidity and too little air flow. That is a problem in Florida

.

cypresskayaksllc · « **Reply #7 on:** November 03, 2011, 10:55:22 pm »

Im in N FLA. Some of my logs develop mold and some dont. I use pine for utility purposes. I let my cherry and sycamore be seen and I dont have a mold problem with those. An open field on the top of a hill is the best place to stack wood. High and dry.

pitsaw · « **Reply #8 on:** November 04, 2011, 09:37:27 am »

The stuff I cut the other day didn't have any stain in it yet so If ican keep it from molding I should be good.Thanks you guys I'll try the borax. as far as hill's I'd have to make my own cause its dead flat round here...

logboy · « **Reply #9 on:** November 04, 2011, 11:32:36 pm »

I'm not sure if it applies to your type of pine, but i usually only get mold where I've left the bark on a board. It affects all the neighboring boards as well, like a bad apple in the bushel. Otherwise I usually get no mold. I verified this yet again tonight as i pulled apart a stack of red pine 2 x 6 I stacked 3 years ago in the barn. From now on I'll either saw all the boards clean with no wane or stack the bark boards separately.

Planman1954 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 06, 2011, 09:57:49 pm »

Seems I read a post once about your problem, and the fellow said that the trick is to clean the sawdust off the wood before stacking. May be wrong here, but I think I remember reading that.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #11 on:** November 07, 2011, 05:01:33 am »

Would winter logging and sawing in the south help reduce the stain if it (resulting lumber) dried in the winter air?

Up here white pine is best cut in October and in the winter months if the logs are going to sit for awhile. And have then sawed before it warms in the spring because the sawyers and ambrosia will get to them right quick in the warmth of late spring.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #12 on:** November 07, 2011, 05:08:21 am »

Logboy, check those live bark edged pine for pin hoes from ambrosia (or trails from engravers), they farm the fungus in their holes.

Ambrosia in the sapwood.

Borax will keep bugs off, but if the logs have been invaded by ambrosia the stain starts inside the holes and feeds on the sugars as it grows in the sapwood. Borax will only deter surface stain.

logboy · « **Reply #13 on:** November 08, 2011, 10:06:28 pm »

This summer I cut a trailer load of pine up north then drove it down to my place 100 miles south. It took me three days time before I could get it off and stickered. Blue mold had already started wherever a board had bark in the stack. Swamp Donkey, are you saying the blue stain was there to begin with before I cut? Or the insects were already there? Maybe I'm wrong, but it seemed to be a microbial issue to me where the fungus was already in the bark and did not grow until the proper condition for growth presented itself. When I have no bark (sapwood or not) it rarely seems to be an issue.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #14 on:** November 09, 2011, 09:29:55 am »

With the ambrosia, it got inoculated when the tree was down and the bugs crawled/chewed in. If it's just surface stain, then that came just after you sawed lumber, on the air, with sawdust being on the boards and not good air flow.

White pine can be a pain in the seat. We had some nice pine go to crap that was to be used for cupboards. Grandpa had to cut and skid on ice by horse and it laid on the ground in the warm season afterward and got ruined.

DIPMAN · « **Reply #15 on:** November 30, 2011, 03:33:09 pm »

I am very new to this forum but let me add my two cents to this discussion. To prevent blue stain in GSYP during the hot/warm months of the year you need to cut the logs as fresh as possible and spray or dip the lumber with either a strong borax solution (provides short term protection) or an EPA registered anti-sapstain formulation. SYP is far more susceptible to sap staining fungi and molds than the northern species. Most commercially available treatments are efficacious against a broad spectrum of fungi.

Den Socling · « **Reply #16 on:** November 30, 2011, 03:57:46 pm »

hmm.....Welcome. You sound like a dip man. Do you sell dip tanks and such?

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #17 on:** November 30, 2011, 05:08:12 pm »

White pine is equally susceptible if not worst to stain. It can't lay around long at all in the warm season. I see a bunch that has been sitting at a portable mill for months and someone is soon going to learn a little more about white pine.

WDH · « **Reply #18 on:** November 30, 2011, 08:28:44 pm »

At 100 degrees and high humidity, anything, wood or man, goes bad quick

.

DIPMAN · « **Reply #19 on:** December 01, 2011, 10:38:08 am »

I'm a development chemist and I have been formulating and testing anti-sapstain products for most of my 13 yr career. I guess when I say SYP is more susceptible I am comparing the sapwood/heartwood ratios and longer mold/stain seasons. Attaching a picture of Neurospora growing on a SYP peeler core (36 hrs old) that should make your skin crawl and a photo of a typical 14 day blue stain test on GSYP (note the line between dipped and not dipped). Borax alone will not yield these results. BTW, my wife does think I am a dip, man.

DIPMAN · « **Reply #20 on:** December 01, 2011, 10:39:18 am »

Hmmm, how to add pictures?

Den Socling · « **Reply #21 on:** December 01, 2011, 11:01:23 am »

Pictures are currently a problem. Jeff has been making some major upgrades of the forum software. He isn't quite done.

Den Socling · « **Reply #22 on:** December 01, 2011, 11:45:12 am »

Just looked and I see the "old" system is here again. Go to the top right hand corner and click on gallery. Upload the picture. Open a reply in the thread. Click where, under the picture, it says click here to put the picture in your post. This isn't likely to go smoothly for you. That's something that Jeff wants to make easier.

Den Socling · « **Reply #23 on:** December 01, 2011, 02:20:52 pm »

Well the Gallery is disabled again. Notice "NEWS:" in the upper, right hand corner. There you will see when it is enabled again.

FeltzE · « **Reply #24 on:** January 30, 2012, 06:35:42 am »

Here in NC blue stain after sawmilling in the summer is an issue for me. I have cut my stack widths to 4' using 1 inch dry sticks I have reduced the degree of stain.

Running straight from the saw to the kiln helps as well but I need to run smaller loads than in the winter as the stain occurs faster than the Nyle L200 can pull that critical moisture off the surface in the first 48 hrs. It's not that the Nyle isn't fast enough I just tend to overload the capability trying to be efficient.

I rather cut my best quality pine in the cooler weather I have better results. But I may end up doing a borax spray this year

Thanks for the info on borax guys

stumpy · « **Reply #25 on:** February 02, 2012, 07:49:02 am »

I was told once, to avoid bluestain, only cut down trees in months that have an "R" in them. I guess the idea is that all those months were in colder weather.

WDH · « **Reply #26 on:** February 02, 2012, 08:01:42 am »

I have heard that spraying with borates does not have any effect on the development of mold and mildew, but then, I have heard others say that it does. Does anyone have any data and experience with this?

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #27 on:** February 02, 2012, 11:21:12 am »

I can't imagine anything surviving borax or borates. Possible I suppose if it's deep in the canals of ambrosia.

Al_Smith · « **Reply #28 on:** February 03, 2012, 06:49:44 am »

It may sound unconventional and perhaps objectionable but for certain parasites such as gypsy moths I hose a whole stack down with sevin dust .It also kills ants in hickory .

Now as a question because I don't know .Would a solution of bleach and water inhibit mold growth ? If so how deep would the bleach pentrate the surface or would this not be a good idea ? Mold is not a problem in these parts with drying lumber so I have no idea how to deal with it .

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #29 on:** February 03, 2012, 06:59:34 am »

Al it wouldn't work as a preventative, it would only kill the organisms on fresh sprayed contact. Bleach breaks down over time even in the jug.

Borax is in the laundry section of the grocery and about $5 for 5 lbs. Diluted in hot water 50/50. I use it to get rid of ant hills, but you have to mix sugar in so they will come and cart it off to the grubs. It'll wipe'm out.

Al_Smith · « **Reply #30 on:** February 03, 2012, 09:35:37 am »

On the borax stuff I ordered 50 pounds one time .I get very greasey with some of the stuff I do .I couldn't find Boraxo any place locally .So I E-mailed Dial soap and found an on line wholesaler in Louisiana and had it shipped .

The UPS man thought I was nuts but never the less I got my soap .I use about 4- 5 pounds a year I suppose .

Funny nobody seems to get dirty hands any more .You can't find stuff like Lava soap or Boraxo .Geeze I grew up with it and then it all but dissappeared .I've come to the conclusion I must be one of the last of a rapidly vanishing breed of tinkerer and puttser .Soon gone like the village blacksmith and steel beer can .

What shall they do but go stone blind in future generations from starring at a computer screen looking at history and the things that used to be .

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #31 on:** February 03, 2012, 06:36:02 pm »

Don't get me going about not being able to get stuff at the stores around here. I can go to the local hardware store 9/10 for something you'd think they would stock. Nope. The line is "we can order it". So can I. And if they had what you were after they only have one and you need a dozen. Must be just me, because they are still open for business. The hardware stores are getting pretty stingy now I notice, nuts and washers are now in packages of 3. Good grief, anyone knows 9/10 you need things in pairs not odd numbers. If you buy two packages at $1.60 each, a buck went for all the plastic wrapped around it. Thank goodness there is Lee Valley.

News:

Author Topic: need help keeping my pine from stain an mold... (Read 1612 times)