Sharpening Chains/Files

[s grinder]

I just ordered a couple of chains [Sthil] from Bayley's and was checking out the specs. and noticed it called for a 13/64 file to sharpening the chain.I've been using a 7/32 file to sharpen the original and spare chain.Is this a Sthil thing,i've always used a 7/32 for my Jred and Homelite saws,this is my first Sthil.I know it's a smaller file,is their any advantage.I also been using a .030 raker guide,should i try a .040? The saw is a stock MS660 with a 32" bar. 

[beenthere]

A Stihl thing, I believe. I use the 7/32 file for about half the length of the tooth and then switch to the smaller 13/64 th as the tooth height gets lower. The 7/32 fits the new chain factory grind better in the beginning than does the 13/64

[T Welsh]

Yeah, mostly a Stihl thing. but does make sense,it will give you a better profiled gullet compared to 7/32. will a 32nd of an inch matter,probably not,but I did make a point to one of our employees by letting him sharpen his and I sharpened mine and we cut side by side(no difference in time) but when I picked up a chip from the ground and looked at the length compared to his it was almost 1/3 longer than his largest chip. there is a difference! But I am anal about my saw,s they must be razor sharp or I am mad at someone for using my saw(they all ask if they can use it if its needed) I have them trained well!! Tim

[Brucer]

Depends on the file holder, doesn't it? Even if the file holder is you .

The critical thing is the hook angle of the tooth, and that depends on the file diameter and how much the top of the file projects above the top of the tooth.

[T Welsh]

Brucer, Hit it dead on. its all in the hook angle. the smaller dia. file gives a better hook than a larger one does, but the bigger file will clean up a cutter faster than a smaller one does. or may be Stihl,s way of selling more files . I look at it this way the saw chain manufacturers have engineers that spend weeks and even months on getting the most out of a product they produce,why spend my time trying to do the same. I let them do all the R&D on a chain and then I go with it and draw my own conclusion. Tim

[lumberjack48]

I use a 5/32 file from day one with out a guide, all your doing with a 7/32 file is filing chain that does nothing, just a wast of time, this is on a semi chisel and full chisel not a round cutter.

I had my saw set to cut, if any of my crew touched my saw, it was fighting grounds, when i hired a new man that was the first thing we got straight. 

I set the crews saws richer, and put a guard link semi chisel chain on, stays sharp longer, i wasn't making money when they were filing the saw or i had to replace a scored piston.

[beenthere]

I use a 5/32 file from day one with out a guide, all your doing with a 7/32 file is filing chain that does nothing, just a wast of time, this is on a semi chisel and full chisel not a round cutter.
........

Likely not a 3/8 chain. 

[John Mc]

Speaking of hook angles, has anyone else had problems with new out of the box (or off the roll) Oregon chain lately? A couple of my more recent 3/8 chains from Oregon have had way too much hook when brand new. It makes them really "grabby" and tough to bore cut with (the bar wants to "chatter" when boring). No way you'd get this much hook if you followed the Oregon directions for filing or grinding.

I can't recall if they've were 72LGX or 72LPX chains. I've used them both (and frankly don't see much difference in cutting performance between the two, when properly sharpened -- then again, I'm not competing or making a living at this).

John Mc

[lumberjack48]

beenthere, yes a 3/8 chain, i fell for 2 skidders most of the time, 100 to 400 trees a day.
I carried a 5/32 file in the woods with me, when my saw lost its edge i would drop and file, i could not have a dull saw with two skidders chasing me.

A lot of people don't like to step out of the box, once you tried it you'll never go back.

I cut my rakers by eye, this took many yrs of trial & error, the best raker gauge is a file-o-plate

[T Welsh]

lumberjack48 , I can see you point on the 5/32 file,I,ll try it! I also run my rakers down by eye .025 to.030 is normal if I want to get flying depending on what I am cutting I,ll go a little heavy.I check the first one or two with a pair of calipers and then count the strokes of the file and do the rest by count. I hate getting chased by a skidder let alone two of them, there bigger than I am and always win Tim

[s grinder]

Thanks guys i appreciate the input.
Joe

[John Mc]

Lumberjack48 - Seems like using the 5/32 file on 3/8 chain would negate some of the value of the larger tooth on that chain (as compared to 3/8 low-profile, for example, which does take a smaller file). I'd guess that it would interfere with clearing some of the chips from the chain... but maybe that depends on what it is you are cutting.

[Brucer]

Some of you can free-hand file, and some of us can't . If you can do it, you have my respect .

I'll stick to a holder for consistency but I'm perfectly willing to mess around with it if that will improve things.

[sharkey]

Any of you guys know how to square file?  A friend of mine gave me his square chisel files after he retired.

[smwwoody]

The best way to square file is with a sively grinder

[bigsnowdog]

Am I getting the idea no one has their chains sharpened on a machine? Most are using files?

[pineywoods]

Am I getting the idea no one has their chains sharpened on a machine? Most are using files?

Not everybody.. I don't use a file unless I'm in the woods and don't have a spare chain with me. I sharpen on a grinder and my chains cut just fine thank you. Horror of horrors, I use a cheap harbor freight grinder  . Look at it this way... If someone brings me a chain to sharpen, I'm gonna assume it's been hand sharpened till no two teeth are the same, probably rocked, and the rakers need dressing. So I set up the grinder to take off 1/4 of the tooth and a few thou off the rakers. Result--sharp chain, but the teeth are blue and so hard a file won't touch them-all from too much heat. When it gets dull, back to the grinder. After a few trips, no teeth left and the chain is junk.
There's a better way....Sharpen on the grinder whenever possible, BUT set the grinder so the rock just kisses the tooth. Take off the same amount of metal you would with a file. If the tip of the tooth turns blue, you took off too much metal...If you need to take off more of the tooth, make multiple passes...
In short, a grinder is just a tool, and like any tool, it can be mis-used, there is definitely a learning curve on using one, same as hand filing.

[John Mc]

Am I getting the idea no one has their chains sharpened on a machine? Most are using files?

I don't take mine to someone with a grinder if I can avoid it. I enjoy hand sharpening, and it usually forces me to take a short break from cutting... during which I have the time to do a self-assessment to see if I'm still "sharp" myself (I can tend to lose track of how tired or dehydrated I'm getting, when I'm in the midst of cutting). If I weren't such a weekend warrior at this, I'd probably be in better shape fro full days of cutting, and wouldn't need the breaks as much.

I do agree with pineywoods. Files and grinders are just tools. Either can do a good job, if you take the time to learn how to do it properly. If someone else does your sharpening, beware the hardware store employee who's probably had all of 15 minutes of training on how to sharpen the chains on their grinder (and rarely, if ever had to use one of the chains he's sharpened).

[Gary_C]

There's a better way....Sharpen on the grinder whenever possible, BUT set the grinder so the rock just kisses the tooth. Take off the same amount of metal you would with a file. If the tip of the tooth turns blue, you took off too much metal...If you need to take off more of the tooth, make multiple passes...
In short, a grinder is just a tool, and like any tool, it can be mis-used, there is definitely a learning curve on using one, same as hand filing.

That's the way I do it too. And I sharpen for both my chainsaws and a harvester. I try to keep 4-5 sharp chains for both of my chainsaws and 10-20 sharp chains ready for the harvester.

And yes, I can hand sharpen a chain, but find it takes too much time and I can do a more consistent job with a grinder.

[bigsnowdog]

Has anyone tried this?

http://www.timberlinesharpener.com/

[beenthere]

That one should do a precision job, but is expensive.
I get a good job by hand filing. If rocked real bad, then I resort to dropping the chain off at the Stihl dealer. He is good and does a careful job. More than I can say about experience with other locals. 

[Brucer]

I don't have a "method" for sharpening chains, I have a system that is tailored to what I mainly do with the saw.

Most of my sawing is bucking up Douglas-Fir logs that I buy from a broker. D-Fir has a thick, fissured bark so it tends to pick up dirt and mud easily. I don't have any control over what happens in the broker's yard so I often have to deal with mud embedded in the bark.

That said ...

- I sharpen several chains on a wheel grinder.
- When I mount a new chain, I do a quick hand file using a Pferd file that takes down the depth gauges at the same time. I like a chain to be a little more aggressive than the Pferd holder makes it, so I take a flat safety file an give each depth gauge three quick strokes.
- When the chain gets a little dull, I hand file it with the holder.
- When I hid mud (or rocks) in the bark, I swap chains and take the damaged one home for grinding.

The wheel grinder resets all the teeth to the same length. The handfile resets all the depth gauges to the same height. So for my hand filing I just count strokes.

This works well for me in my situation. I'd probably do it completely differently if I was falling trees all day.

[lumberjack48]

Lean over the top of your saw, take a look at the cutters, if you see a shinny edge on the cutters its dull.   
I call this, the chain is looking back at you, so if the chain is looking back, you have to file it on till the shinny edge is gone. 
The biggest problem with hand filing guys have is to keep from rocking the file, guys take long slow straight strokes, now that is easy to remember. 

I always turned the file in to the cutter while i was filing

[T Welsh]

lumberjack48, Quote,Lean over the top of your saw, take a look at the cutters, if you see a shinny edge on the cutters its dull.   Sad
I call this, the chain is looking back at you, so if the chain is looking back, you have to file it on till the shinny edge is gone. I see you have been there and done that That,s the first thing I do when getting ready to use the saw. Tim